Why is Dhruv Jurel playing as a pure batsman in our test team?

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Texan said:

Have you even looked at Sarfaraz of late? Did you miss the stunning catches he took in the IPL?

 

Jurel can't play on turning tracks as well as we saw in the Tests vs SA. I don't have a problem with him as a backup keeper. He seems like a competent option for that. He is just not specialist batsman material from what we have seen so far. 

Bit unfair on batsmen who do specialist role and score tons of runs. Even within his state Rinku made 341 runs in 2 innings averaging 341.00 this season.

[vvvslaxman]

Saik Rasheed,  Ayush Doseja, Pradosh Ranjan paul are all good promising talents.

[Texan]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Jurel as a keeper did fantabulous job as well.

That usually goes unnoticed.

He even fields at Short leg and have taken some blinders whenever Pant keeps.

 

 

Lol. Where did I say that Jurel is not a good fielder or keeper? 

As keeper alone, he might even be better than Pant.

 

The argument was to counter the "unfit" tag that Sarfaraz has got attached to. 

[singhvivek141]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bit unfair on batsmen who do specialist role and score tons of runs. Even within his state Rinku made 341 runs in 2 innings averaging 341.00 this season.

 

See, is Jurel a good batsman...I believe yes.

If thats the case then it doesn't matter where he fields..whether its behind the wkt or at the boundary.

 

We have seen examples of Baz, ABDV, Buttler who are excellent in the ground as well apart from wkt keepeing. Why does his skill is going against him?

 

Remove him if he isnt batting well, but not with an asterix that as he is a keeper he shouldn't play coz we already have a keeper. Its not his fault that Pant was born 4 yeara before him.

Edited August 16 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

4 minutes ago, Texan said:

Lol. Where did I say that Jurel is not a good fielder or keeper? 

As keeper alone, he might even be better than Pant.

 

The argument was to counter the "unfit" tag that Sarfaraz has got attached to. 

 

As the discussion turned into Jurel vs Sarfaraz...I thought that way, thanks for clarifying. 

 

[Lone Wolf]

24 minutes ago, Texan said:

Have you even looked at Sarfaraz of late? Did you miss the stunning catches he took in the IPL?

 

Jurel can't play on turning tracks as well as we saw in the Tests vs SA. I don't have a problem with him as a backup keeper. He seems like a competent option for that. He is just not specialist batsman material from what we have seen so far. 

Vs SA no one performed it was a collective failure and we didn't lose coz of Jurel either.

 

From whatever I have seen Jurel is a vastly superior and much younger option than Sarfaraz.  Technically one of the finest as we have seen overseas for India A as well as in Oval test.

[Lone Wolf]

12 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Saik Rasheed,  Ayush Doseja, Pradosh Ranjan paul are all good promising talents.

Rasheed is good , Dosega is  top order and had only one good Ranji season and last season was beyond trash and lowest quality... I don't think Paul is an option anymore as well.

Edited August 16 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

44 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Really liked Jurel's composure as a batsman today. Batting was more difficult, many balls were turning 4 deg  and we scored 172 for 7 today. Jurel looked the most assured and played strokes freely. 51 out of 172 was good. 

 

Don't know how that was a catch !  It was a fierce cut which hit the slip fielder on the chest.

Knows to score on front and backfoot.. yes there is scope for improvement but temperament and skill wise there are not better younger options available.

 

He should be groomed and given role clarity and confidence.  Think he can marshall the tail as well 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Trying to stop laughing at your nonsense.

 

Second, I don't have any personal agenda against him.So if he scores which I doubt he will and becomes good I will be happy to be proven wrong.

 

He scored 50 not 150.Those are not clutch runs.Even guy like Siraj scored in double digits.

Siraj was swinging at everything... As soon as pacer came he was a complete dud which is expected from a tailender.

 

Vastly experienced Jadeja looked troubled with new ball along with even Paddikal when ball was bouncing and turning viciously.

 

Even his dismissal ball literally gripped from middle and leg stump.  Good luck playing that against a left arm spinner 

[singhvivek141]

I asked Gemini to evaluate the 5 Indian keepers in terms of their 

1. Potential 

2. Batting Ability

3. Keeping Skillset

 

 

Detailed Analysis

1. Potential

 * Rishabh Pant: Holds the highest ceiling of the group. He is already established as one of India's greatest red-ball wicketkeeper-batters, with match-winning international centuries in Australia, England, and South Africa.

 * Dhruv Jurel: Possesses an exceptionally high ceiling for long-format cricket. His composure, game awareness, and compact technique make him the premier long-term red-ball candidate alongside Pant.

 * Ishan Kishan & Sanju Samson: Both have elite top-order power potential in white-ball cricket. Kishan offers dynamic left-handed aggression, while Samson boasts effortless stroke-making. However, both suffer from consistency issues that cap their potential in Test cricket.

 * KL Rahul: Peak potential is largely realized. He serves as an established, highly reliable senior asset whose main role remains elite batting rather than long-term keeping duties.

 

2. Batting Ability

 * Rishabh Pant: Destructive and unconventional. He reshapes Test matches within a session and counters high-risk conditions better than almost any modern batter.

 * KL Rahul: Structurally the most complete and technically sound batter in the lineup. Capable of opening or holding the middle order in ODIs with an ideal mix of rotation and boundary hitting.

 * Sanju Samson: Exceptional back-foot player with elite timing against seam and spin. His boundary-clearing efficiency in white-ball middle overs is high, though his shot selection occasionally leads to soft dismissals.

 * Dhruv Jurel: Displays a mature red-ball setup with tight defense and smart tail-end management. He plays late, relies on solid placement, and handles high pressure comfortably.

 * Ishan Kishan: Thrives when given freedom in the powerplay. He hits cleanly through the line, though he can be restricted by seam movement and targeted hard-length bowling.

 

3. Keeping Skill Set

 * Dhruv Jurel: The cleanest pure gloveman of the group. He features soft hands, low body posture, and quick reactions to low bounce, making his technique ideal for long Test matches.

 * Rishabh Pant: Most improved keeper. Once considered raw, he has developed elite standing-up glovework to spinners on subcontinent dustbowls alongside strong athleticism for diving takes.

 * Ishan Kishan: Reliable limited-overs keeper with sharp reactions to stumping opportunities, though less tested across prolonged multi-day spells.

 * KL Rahul & Sanju Samson: Functional white-ball options. Rahul provides crucial team balance in ODIs, while Samson handles standard white-ball duties comfortably, though neither is suited for the physical demands of keeping in Test cricket.

 

[Lone Wolf]

25 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Jurel as a keeper did fantabulous job as well.

That usually goes unnoticed.

He even fields at Short leg and have taken some blinders whenever Pant keeps.

 

 

Jurel catching Anderson in Ranchi for final wicket almost made Swann on air choke on what he saw... Pure quick reflex masterclass shades of Peak Saha

Edited August 16 by Lone Wolf

[vvvslaxman]

26 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Rasheed is good , Dosega is  top order and had only one good Ranji season and last season was beyond trash and lowest quality... I don't think Paul is an option anymore as well.

The thing Jurel is not so much better than others. Jurel had a good debut series at home against substandard English spinners. Then against Windies had a good outing. These A games have to be taken with a pinch of salt as the intensity levels are not going to be the same.

[Texan]

27 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Vs SA no one performed it was a collective failure and we didn't lose coz of Jurel either.

 

From whatever I have seen Jurel is a vastly superior and much younger option than Sarfaraz.  Technically one of the finest as we have seen overseas for India A as well as in Oval test.

Lol. When everybody flopped vs SA, nobody gets the blame.

 

But when everybody flopped vs NZ, and Sarfaraz got the only hundred by an Indian batsman in the whole Test series, still he got blamed for that failure and dropped.

 

Jai ho logic 

[Texan]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

The thing Jurel is not so much better than others. Jurel had a good debut series at home against substandard English spinners. Then against Windies had a good outing. These A games have to be taken with a pinch of salt as the intensity levels are not going to be the same.

Plus he was specialist keeper in those A games. I get the feeling that he plays more freely when he is the keeper as he might be thinking of batting as his second skill, while being a specialist batsman alone makes him play more constrainted and he ends up getting out. The difference in averages as keeper vs non keeper is stark. 59 vs 13

[vvvslaxman]

37 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

See, is Jurel a good batsman...I believe yes.

If thats the case then it doesn't matter where he fields..whether its behind the wkt or at the boundary.

 

We have seen examples of Baz, ABDV, Buttler who are excellent in the ground as well apart from wkt keepeing. Why does his skill is going against him?

 

Remove him if he isnt batting well, but not with an asterix that as he is a keeper he shouldn't play coz we already have a keeper. Its not his fault that Pant was born 4 yeara before him.

 

Baz, ABDV, Buttler are superior batsmen in their respective format. Jurel is not even close to their skill level.

[Texan]

55 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bit unfair on batsmen who do specialist role and score tons of runs. Even within his state Rinku made 341 runs in 2 innings averaging 341.00 this season.

Yes, Rinku also has a fantastic FC record. On top of that, he is a terrific fielder. He has unfortunately got pigeonholed as a T20 specialist when he is so much more than that. 

[putrevus]

According to idiots Gambhir and Agarkar, Sarfraz is unfit as number 5 or 6 even though he has scored more runs and last played on two awful and under prepared bunsen burners against NZ.He scored 150 when no other batsman including bozo like KL Rahul barely reached double figures.

 

But Jurel with his avg of 13 as a batsman that too playing against teams like SL, Afganistan is a great batsman.

 

We got rid of one guy in Sai hopefull, there are few more who should follow him.

Edited August 16 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Texan said:

Plus he was specialist keeper in those A games. I get the feeling that he plays more freely when he is the keeper as he might be thinking of batting as his second skill, while being a specialist batsman alone makes him play more constrainted and he ends up getting out. The difference in averages as keeper vs non keeper is stark. 59 vs 13

He has to make runs outside Asian conditions to make a statement. 

[putrevus]

38 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I asked Gemini to evaluate the 5 Indian keepers in terms of their 

1. Potential 

2. Batting Ability

3. Keeping Skillset

 

 

Detailed Analysis

1. Potential

 * Rishabh Pant: Holds the highest ceiling of the group. He is already established as one of India's greatest red-ball wicketkeeper-batters, with match-winning international centuries in Australia, England, and South Africa.

 * Dhruv Jurel: Possesses an exceptionally high ceiling for long-format cricket. His composure, game awareness, and compact technique make him the premier long-term red-ball candidate alongside Pant.

 * Ishan Kishan & Sanju Samson: Both have elite top-order power potential in white-ball cricket. Kishan offers dynamic left-handed aggression, while Samson boasts effortless stroke-making. However, both suffer from consistency issues that cap their potential in Test cricket.

 * KL Rahul: Peak potential is largely realized. He serves as an established, highly reliable senior asset whose main role remains elite batting rather than long-term keeping duties.

 

2. Batting Ability

 * Rishabh Pant: Destructive and unconventional. He reshapes Test matches within a session and counters high-risk conditions better than almost any modern batter.

 * KL Rahul: Structurally the most complete and technically sound batter in the lineup. Capable of opening or holding the middle order in ODIs with an ideal mix of rotation and boundary hitting.

 * Sanju Samson: Exceptional back-foot player with elite timing against seam and spin. His boundary-clearing efficiency in white-ball middle overs is high, though his shot selection occasionally leads to soft dismissals.

 * Dhruv Jurel: Displays a mature red-ball setup with tight defense and smart tail-end management. He plays late, relies on solid placement, and handles high pressure comfortably.

 * Ishan Kishan: Thrives when given freedom in the powerplay. He hits cleanly through the line, though he can be restricted by seam movement and targeted hard-length bowling.

 

3. Keeping Skill Set

 * Dhruv Jurel: The cleanest pure gloveman of the group. He features soft hands, low body posture, and quick reactions to low bounce, making his technique ideal for long Test matches.

 * Rishabh Pant: Most improved keeper. Once considered raw, he has developed elite standing-up glovework to spinners on subcontinent dustbowls alongside strong athleticism for diving takes.

 * Ishan Kishan: Reliable limited-overs keeper with sharp reactions to stumping opportunities, though less tested across prolonged multi-day spells.

 * KL Rahul & Sanju Samson: Functional white-ball options. Rahul provides crucial team balance in ODIs, while Samson handles standard white-ball duties comfortably, though neither is suited for the physical demands of keeping in Test cricket.

 

It proves only one thing Jurel is a back up keeper.

[express bowling]

44 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

See, is Jurel a good batsman...I believe yes.

If thats the case then it doesn't matter where he fields..whether its behind the wkt or at the boundary.

 

We have seen examples of Baz, ABDV, Buttler who are excellent in the ground as well apart from wkt keepeing. Why does his skill is going against him?

 

 

 

This mindset, that a person with keeping ability cannot be a good specialist batsman, existed till 1990 or thereabouts. It's an old fashioned idea. Don't know why it is being raised now. 

 

There have been so many cases where a keeper, who has played significant number of games as a specialist batsman, has done really well as a pure batsman. Often better too.

 

BATTING AVERAGES IN TESTS ....

 

ALEC STEWART

 

As Batsman .. 46.7 from 51 tests

As Keeper .. 34.9 from 82 tests

 

BAZ McCULLUM

 

As Batsman .. 42.9 from 49 tests

As Keeper .. 34.2 from 52 tests

 

KUMAR SANGAKKARA

 

As Batsman .. 66.8 from 86 tests

As Keeper .. 40.5 from 48 tests

 

AB deVILLIERS

 

As Batsman .. 48.9 from 90 tests

As Keeper .. 57.4 from 24 tests

 

 

Jurel may end up being a good test batsman or he may fail. But holding his keeping ability against him does not have any data based logic. It is just an old fashioned perception.