After Switzerland, its now France's turn

[Sachinism]

Guys don't turn this into a religious discussion or thread will be closed Stick to original topic

[triam]

Shwetabh, If they make clear it is for security reasons and not go on about womans rights yada yada, a lot of people will have their mouths shut. Currently they are advertising the ban on burqas as womens liberation or something like that, I agree it is a security threat, so a ban with that justification I can live with, but as long as these French politicians keep talking about liberating women, they wont win this debate. I am as much against any religion as any salt of the earth atheist, but I am also for individual rights, so it will sit better with me and most moderates if the ban is due to security reasons. Fastest growing religin:winky:, lol, do people who have aids or cancer feel proud that their disease is the fastest growing one? if so, be proud of the religion being the fastest growing be it islam, christianity or anything else.

[beetle]

Ideally in a free society, citizens should make the decision on what they want to wear. Bhurka appears more like an exception as it's hard to imagine someone would want to put in on willingly unless programed to do that from childhood in a society where men don't wear them. Is the law fair considering how free societies conduct themselves? I don't think so Is the law appropriate? May be considering the status of women wearing Bhurka in their society and a need to make them step out of Bhurka unless men want to put Bhurka on too as a sign of being equals

:two_thumbs_up:

[The Outsider]

Yeah I agree triam, they'll find more takers if it is sold as a security rather than cultural/religious issue.

[Macj]

Its now quite a common trend for Arab and Middle Eastern youth across Europe to rape white women wearing skimpy (normal for their culture) clothes. So much so that Imams across the continent have proudly claimed he Burqa should be worn for safety if not anything else. The problem with the burqa is it covers the face, hence causes a direct conflict with law enforcement, education and safety. How the hell can you verify who a person is if theyre covered. There was a similar issue in Florida where a judge threw out a case where a Muslim woman wanted a drivers license with her in burqa.

[yoda]

So is there a law which says you must leave your face uncovered in public, in any country? Just asking as that seems to be the main issue here. Leaving it uncovered when requested by a safety/security official as applicable, that seems like it doesn't even need any stating.

[Sachinism]

France moves closer to banning burqas A French parliamentary committee has recommended a partial ban on women wearing Islamic face veils. The committee's near 200-page report has proposed a ban in hospitals, schools, government offices and on public transport. It also recommends that anyone showing visible signs of "radical religious practice" should be refused residence cards and citizenship. The interior ministry says just 1,900 women in France wear the full veils. In its report, the committee said requiring women to cover their faces was against the French republican principles of secularism and equality. "The wearing of the full veil is a challenge to our republic. This is unacceptable. We must condemn this excess," the report said. The commission called on parliament to adopt a formal resolution stating that the face veil was "contrary to the values of the republic" and proclaiming that "all of France is saying 'no' to the full veil". Presenting the report to the French National Assembly, speaker Bernard Accoyer said the face veil had too many negative connotations. read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8480161.stm

[Ram]

France is going down on a dangerous road here. Above all, this line struck me the most;

It also recommends that anyone showing visible signs of "radical religious practice" should be refused residence cards and citizenship.

That makes absolutely NO sense at all. Religion is a personal thing and every individual has the total right to follow his/her own methods of adhering to their individual faith (obviously, as long as that does not pose a threat to law and order, community peace etc..) To say that France will now start discriminating against people based on the extent of their 'visible religious practice' is just absurd. If a women wearing a burqa or a Sikh wearing a turban or a jew wearing a kipppah is offensive to certain sections of the society, what next? If I am a French citizen who finds homosexuals walking on French roads with their hands clasped offensive, will the French govt. start discriminating against people, by their sexual orientation too, when it comes to giving them residency ? France has got all the right ideas - They're trying to rid their country of these frankly nauseating religious symbols - but they're going down on the completely wrong path when it comes into converting policy into practice and are making a mockery of civil liberties.

[zubinpepsi]

France is going down on a dangerous road here. Above all, this line struck me the most; That makes absolutely NO sense at all. Religion is a personal thing and every individual has the total right to follow his/her own methods of adhering to their individual faith (obviously, as long as that does not pose a threat to law and order, community peace etc..) To say that France will now start discriminating against people based on the extent of their 'visible religious practice' is just absurd. If a women wearing a burqa or a Sikh wearing a turban or a jew wearing a kipppah is offensive to certain sections of the society, what next? If I am a French citizen who finds homosexuals walking on French roads with their hands clasped offensive, will the French govt. start discriminating against people, by their sexual orientation too, when it comes to giving them residency ? France has got all the right ideas - They're trying to rid their country of these frankly nauseating religious symbols - but they're going down on the completely wrong path when it comes into converting policy into practice and are making a mockery of civil liberties.

morris, u missed the radical part.. it reads 'visible radical religious practice':desiwoman:

[punjabi_khota]

France is going down on a dangerous road here. Above all, this line struck me the most; That makes absolutely NO sense at all. Religion is a personal thing and every individual has the total right to follow his/her own methods of adhering to their individual faith (obviously, as long as that does not pose a threat to law and order, community peace etc..) To say that France will now start discriminating against people based on the extent of their 'visible religious practice' is just absurd. If a women wearing a burqa or a Sikh wearing a turban or a jew wearing a kipppah is offensive to certain sections of the society, what next? If I am a French citizen who finds homosexuals walking on French roads with their hands clasped offensive, will the French govt. start discriminating against people, by their sexual orientation too, when it comes to giving them residency ? France has got all the right ideas - They're trying to rid their country of these frankly nauseating religious symbols - but they're going down on the completely wrong path when it comes into converting policy into practice and are making a mockery of civil liberties.

Pretending burqa wearing is same as sikh turban or jewish kippah is basically the height of absurdity and pc-ness. give it up morris already.

[Clarke]

All they're suggesting is a partial ban : The ban on the "voile integrale" -- which literally means "total veil" -- would apply in public places like hospitals and schools, and on public transport, a French parliamentary commission announced. It would also apply to anyone who attempts to receive public services, but it would not apply to people wearing the burqa on the street, the commission said. The commission stopped short of recommending a full ban because not all of the 32 commission members could agree on it. They will now recommend that Parliament pass a resolution on the partial ban. Such a resolution, if passed, would not make the wearing of a full veil or burqa illegal, but it would give public officials support when asking people to remove it. By recommending a ban on full veils in public places such as hospitals and schools and by anyone receiving public services, the commission members said they wanted to assist those working with members of the public when asking that full veils be removed. That would include school teachers who meet children's parents or ticket agents at train stations. More than half of French people support a full ban, according to a recent opinion poll. The Ipsos poll for Le Point magazine found 57 percent of French people said it should be illegal to appear in public wearing clothes that cover the face. http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/26/france.burqa.ban/index.html?hpt=Sbin ----------------- This is as light as it gets; if people have a problem with this, may their god bless them. Sounds a bit complex in terms of allowing someone to drive while wearing a burqa but not use the bus/train, letting them walk to school wearing the burqa but not allow them in school with it and other such instances.

[Sooda]

^ Why do you say that PK? Muslim ladies wear burqa because they believe God prescribes it in the Quran. Im not sure what the rationale is for the turban and the kippah, how is it different?

[punjabi_khota]

^ Why do you say that PK? Muslim ladies wear burqa because they believe God prescribes it in the Quran. Im not sure what the rationale is for the turban and the kippah, how is it different?

Because unlike turban or kippah, burqa is a severe impediment to conducting day to day activities for those women, and on top of that, it is security nightmare. Burqa by its very design is a big obstacle to the progress among women, and I can think of a billion jobs and opportunities the women will lose out on if she insists on (or is ..uh convinced about) wearing the burqa. The effect is both physical and mental.How many burqa clad doctors, engineers, scientists,business-women have you come across recently in the developed world ? all the successful muslim women i know have absolutely shunned burqa, some of them wear the head scarf (and thats perfectly fine..on lines on turban/kippah), and I absolutely think it is not a co-incidence. On the other hand, there are bajillion jews with kippahs working on wall street, and another bajillion turban wearing sikhs owning hotels in US.