beetle Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 ^Firstly, they didn't start out as a terrorist organization. They were just fighting for their rights. The resorted to violence since nothing worked for them. Will you call Bhagat Singh as a terrorist? Perhaps they should have handled this on more peaceful terms. Their reputation got worse after Rajiv Gandhi's killing. Taliban also started as a people fighting for the people till they became too powerful for the common man to protest....ditto with the LTTE.How many of their own did they kill ?
Sooda Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 There is a very interesting comparison from the Illiad. Hector, kills Achilles cousin, mistaking him for Achilles. Later when he finds out, he is terribly saddened, and personally hands over the body and over looks a state cremation for the dead lad. Achilles on hearing that his cousin is murdered, rushes to fight prince Hector. He defeats and kills Hector in the ensuing fight. But Achilles, full of grief, drags Hector's dead body around the battlefield. The USA must decide, does it want to be remembered as an Achilles or a Hector? hf4IoxEUmHM
Mariyam Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 ^^^ Nice find. Haven't seen the movie yet. :((
The Dark Horse Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Taliban also started as a people fighting for the people till they became too powerful for the common man to protest....ditto with the LTTE.How many of their own did they kill ? I don't think they killed their own people. But they must have not resorted to public killings.
beetle Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I don't think they killed their own people. But they must have not resorted to public killings. What did they do to people who refused to work with them and the so called informants. I have heard the burning tyre around the head was their favorite .
DomainK Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 War crimws happen in almost every war. Cruel treatment of POWs is very common. When the winning army gets total control over their enemies, they never folow a healthy protocol of treatment. We hear so much about Nazi concentration camps for POWs, but I am sure the alliance forces had their share of fun with German and Japanese POWs (may be not as bad as the nazi concentratikn camps), that never got reported. War itself is an inhuman act. It brongs out the worst in people.
Sooda Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 ^^^ Nice find. Haven't seen the movie yet. :(( Its ok, actually does good justice to the book/poem. That particular fight is probably closer fought in the film than it is in the book though. Good cast generally in the film and do a good job.
Sachinism Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Whenever I hear news like this, its reminds me of Zimbardo's prison experiment. I wonder what kinda preventive procedures they have in place.
Clarke Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 what's with the sudden sympathy for Talibans? I would set their bodies on fire just to set an example like they do to anyone not following their version of Islamic laws. They have hung random people in the middle of the city they concluded to be spies' date= they have stoned and beheaded girls who dare to go to school... These fkers don't give a **** about you, Indians or any non muslims. You are not the soldiers of a professional army, so i guess its ok to approach it that way. Good comparison, Mariyam. Reminds me of Briseis: If killing is your only talent, that's your curse.
Clarke Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 ^Firstly, they didn't start out as a terrorist organization. They were just fighting for their rights. The resorted to violence since nothing worked for them. Will you call Bhagat Singh as a terrorist? Perhaps they should have handled this on more peaceful terms. Their reputation got worse after Rajiv Gandhi's killing. You make it sound as if the LTTE was some righteous organization. They were terrorists far before the IPKF got involved. Maybe India should'nt have intervened other than providing humanitarian assistance but i guess TN's love for the Tamil brethren from across the border was too strong to not have any political ramifications in New Delhi.
The Dark Horse Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 ^They are not saints, I was just pointing out that their actions were for their peoples' rights and nothing else. Agree that the IPKF shouldn't have involved. Otherwise I wouldn't have raised this point.
lovish Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Nothing new... why the hell you can't piss on someone who was trying to cut your throat moments ago ????
EnterTheVoid Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 agree These bastards stoned women to death for moving around showing their faces but had no problems with with their fellow talibans picking up little boys and girls to use as sex toys. Getting pissed on is a very small indignity heaped on them.Maybe their piss soaked souls will be denied entry into the hallowed heaven they so crave for. LOL There is no love for the Taliban but the issue is, the backlash this is going to create on the soldiers currently on the ground.
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 ^^^ That's because the USA is a civilized society (or we would like to think so) and the Taliban are not!! And by extension, the US army is expected to act by the norms of the society it is supposed to represent. Since when does the USA benchmark its behaviour and morals to that of the Taliban? Are the Taliban devils who deserve a bad death? - Yes Does that excuse these US soldiers? - NoNot that I personally feel the following but for argument sake - empathy is the very best way to make people understand. So sometimes it is necessary to abuse the intolerant bastard just so that he can feel the grief that his victims felt when he abused them. Would I abuse the Taliban because they abused others? No Would I abuse the Taliban if they abuse me? No Would I hate someone who abused the Taliban? I will understand the reasons Should I find it appalling that USA abused Taliban? No way. One bastard abusing another bastard. Should I find it appalling when India abuses Taliban? Oh yes, I damn will. There is a very interesting comparison from the Illiad. Hector, kills Achilles cousin, mistaking him for Achilles. Later when he finds out, he is terribly saddened, and personally hands over the body and over looks a state cremation for the dead lad. Achilles on hearing that his cousin is murdered, rushes to fight prince Hector. He defeats and kills Hector in the ensuing fight. But Achilles, full of grief, drags Hector's dead body around the battlefield. The USA must decide, does it want to be remembered as an Achilles or a Hector?Sorry wrong analogy. Neither of Hector and Achilles were bastards before the war. One was guilty of fighting a kid and the other was taken over by grief. In our case both USA and Taliban are certified murderers. Serves both of them right. Two scums fighting and pissing on each other
Mariyam Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Sorry wrong analogy. Neither of Hector and Achilles were bastards before the war. One was guilty of fighting a kid and the other was taken over by grief. In our case both USA and Taliban are certified murderers. Serves both of them right. Two scums fighting and pissing on each other Hector was guilty of making the mistake of mistaking Achilles's cousin for Achilles. They looked quite similar and apparently wore similar capes too. Besides that, Hector was defending his country against invaders. His war was justified, so to say. Achilles on the other hand, was fighting the war for "glory". Neither was he bound by any law/treaty to be a part of the struggle, nor was he offended in the least when Helen eloped with Paris. In fact, he didn't even take the oath of Helen and wasn't even among her suitors.There is a passage in the Illiad where he says she (Helen) did the right thing. That was when he was on board one of the ships with his troops headed towards Troy. What that implies, is that right or wrong didn't mean much to him. In a nutshell, he fought for reasons that can only be described as less than noble. Add that to the fact that he was an iconoclast and even the slaughter of Trojan priests and stealing their cattle was within the limits of acceptable behaviour for him. Glory and pillage were in fact the raisons d'etre for his presence that island. Definitely wouldn't place Hector & Achilles at par, on the guilt scale.
nballa Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 maybe they were trying to put out a fire to save those soldiers, did you ever think of that? in a war when there is a scarcity of water you put out fires by urination. that is the first thing they teach in the us millitary.
EnterTheVoid Posted January 16, 2012 Author Posted January 16, 2012 Two golden rules: If you do something stupid, don't film it. If you have filmed it, don't put it up on the Internet. All their acheivements are now tarnished and will probably end up spending a long time in some federal penetentiary.
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Hector was guilty of making the mistake of mistaking Achilles's cousin for Achilles. They looked quite similar and apparently wore similar capes too. Besides that, Hector was defending his country against invaders. His war was justified, so to say. Achilles on the other hand, was fighting the war for "glory". Neither was he bound by any law/treaty to be a part of the struggle, nor was he offended in the least when Helen eloped with Paris. In fact, he didn't even take the oath of Helen and wasn't even among her suitors.There is a passage in the Illiad where he says she (Helen) did the right thing. That was when he was on board one of the ships with his troops headed towards Troy. What that implies, is that right or wrong didn't mean much to him. In a nutshell, he fought for reasons that can only be described as less than noble. Add that to the fact that he was an iconoclast and even the slaughter of Trojan priests and stealing their cattle was within the limits of acceptable behaviour for him. Glory and pillage were in fact the raisons d'etre for his presence that island. Definitely wouldn't place Hector & Achilles at par, on the guilt scale.What was this post about? If anything you just made my case stronger about Hector-Achilles thingy being incomparable with USA-Taliban thingy...
Mariyam Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 @ Vijay, The Hector-Achilles bit wasn't meant to be analogous to the USA - Taliban situation. If USA of today was to be personified into a Greek hero, who would it be: Hector or Achilles? That's the question.
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