India-KXIP fan Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Vinay kumar averages 33 in odis with economy of 5.6 ,Our standards have got so low that we think it great as we play Praveen kumar who averages 36. It pains me to see these guys who have no future being given oppurtunities rather than young fast bowlers More so as for the first time we have fast bowlers.Take the world cup for example we played with nehra and munaf they were hammered against sa,eng,aus who play fast bowling well. "First there are lies, then there are statistics"-Mark Twain & Benjamin Disraeli :hatsoff:
Lord Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 even Balaji took wickets on this pitch.so what?recall Balaji?
Number Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 even Balaji took wickets on this pitch.so what?recall Balaji? Not just wickets , he was almost unplayable on this pitch.
RedFever Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Not just wickets ' date=' he was almost unplayable on this pitch.[/quote'] that sums it up about VK
bangladeshifan Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 this was a pace frndly pitch. even kallis was unplayable. let him play in a slower pitch which has less bounce u see or just get him in india team ;)
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 let me explain to you slowly. Let's take the windies attack of roberts, holding,crofts, garner,marshall,clarke, daniels as the bar. obviously it would be unrealistic to expect to reach that bar from india's current level in the near future. however you take the best of what india has(ishant, yadav and aaron) and take forward steps in a long journey towards that level. this is not the 80's where you load the teams with madan lals and binny's vinay is several steps backward. As bad our pace bowling talent is compared to many countries, we don't have to suffer vinay. The bar should be higher and steps shud be forward. And what do we do when Ishant, Yadav and Aaron are injured, such as now? Moreover, both Ishant and Yadav are poor ODI bowlers. Keep in mind I am talking only about limited overs cricket. Ishant's career record is acceptable but a Cricinfo Numbers Game a little while back showed this is merely by stealing cheap wickets at the death. Umesh Yadav has a poor record, with 16 wickets at 45.43. With him as an injury prone, best Test prospect, is it worth bowling him into the ground in a format that he is not very good in. I also think comparing Ishant (or Yadav or Aaron, though Yadav is promising) to the great West Indian bowlers due purely to pace is as unsuitable as comparing Saj Mahmood. A similar pace does not make a similar quality bowler. Ishant's floundering in Australia and England is something we would not have seen from any great West Indian bowler.
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 even Balaji took wickets on this pitch.so what?recall Balaji? No, that is facetious but Vinay has been a consistent domestic bowler and is showing signs of consistency and improvement. These are things to be cherished in Indian bowlers who tend to just fade away after the first year or two to injury or poor form.
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Vinay kumar averages 33 in odis with economy of 5.6 ,Our standards have got so low that we think it great as we play Praveen kumar who averages 36. It pains me to see these guys who have no future being given oppurtunities rather than young fast bowlers More so as for the first time we have fast bowlers.Take the world cup for example we played with nehra and munaf they were hammered against sa,eng,aus who play fast bowling well. Yadav has a worse record than Vinay. Ishant's record is hardly breathtaking, either. I expect Vinay to improve his record. In the World Cup, teams routinely hammered fast bowlers. The conditions were very tough to bowl any sort of pace. Bowling 140kph was not a precondition for success. Quick bowlers did well, but they also did poorly - as did medium pacers.
rkt.india Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 And what do we do when Ishant, Yadav and Aaron are injured, such as now? Moreover, both Ishant and Yadav are poor ODI bowlers. Keep in mind I am talking only about limited overs cricket. Ishant's career record is acceptable but a Cricinfo Numbers Game a little while back showed this is merely by stealing cheap wickets at the death. . Ishant has an SR of 32 in ODIs, Nathan Braken is talked to be one of the best ODI bowlers with same SR.
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Ishant has an SR of 32 in ODIs' date=' Nathan Braken is talked to be one of the best ODI bowlers with same SR.[/quote'] Oh c'mon. Ishant is wildly inconsistent in ODIs. We both know that. Also, ODI bowling matters more about average and economy than strike rate. 5-35-1 is nowhere near as good as 5-20-1 in an ODI. Also, I will find the Cricinfo Numbers Game which shows how poor Ishant is at the beginning of the innings, when performances can have an exponential effect on the rest of the innings.
rkt.india Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 Oh c'mon. Ishant is wildly inconsistent in ODIs. We both know that. Also, ODI bowling matters more about average and economy than strike rate. 5-35-1 is nowhere near as good as 5-20-1 in an ODI. Also, I will find the Cricinfo Numbers Game which shows how poor Ishant is at the beginning of the innings, when performances can have an exponential effect on the rest of the innings. Ishant is poor at an SR of 32, average is pretty similar for both Vinay and Ishant as well as economy then how Vinay is far better than others. Even if he has improved a lot, since his debut, still he is not world class or a match winner. He is still below average. Dont promote one when all are crap. PK is the crappiest of them all.
bulbul Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 Ishant is poor at an SR of 32, average is pretty similar for both Vinay and Ishant as well as economy then how Vinay is far better than others. Even if he has improved a lot, since his debut, still he is not world class or a match winner. He is still below average. Dont promote one when all are crap. PK is the crappiest of them all. Ishanth got his chances..sow now the turn of Vinay and PK to get chances whats wrong in there others will get their chances also
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Ishant is poor at an SR of 32, average is pretty similar for both Vinay and Ishant as well as economy then how Vinay is far better than others. Even if he has improved a lot, since his debut, still he is not world class or a match winner. He is still below average. Dont promote one when all are crap. PK is the crappiest of them all. I've never said he is 'far' better than others, just a good bowler in ODI cricket. He is not world class or a match winner; but in ODI cricket, no one we have is world class and only perhaps Aaron is a match winner. Being fast is not the same as being a 'match winner'. Nathan Bracken was not a 'match winner' and he was an excellent ODI bowler; as was Glenn Mcgrath. I agree that PK is crap in ODIs.
vishalvirsingh Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 Ishant is poor at an SR of 32, average is pretty similar for both Vinay and Ishant as well as economy then how Vinay is far better than others. Even if he has improved a lot, since his debut, still he is not world class or a match winner. He is still below average. Dont promote one when all are crap. PK is the crappiest of them all. Dhoni will play 4 spinners but will not play Sudeep tyagi- i pity Sudeep, whether he will ever get a chance in any IPL match or not.......???
MCcricket Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 Vinay has improved a g8 deal , but is only good enough as a support bowler, we all have seen what good pace bowling can do even in t20's, Ishant definitely in my book should get the new cherry, with Zak, UMESH, AARON ON THE OTHER END TO SHARE IT WITH HIM, why would you want to play VK if Pathan is fit as they have similar pace, in fact Pathan can do a lot more with the ball and also getting better. Initially in first few editions of IPL YOU COULD SEE A LOT OF YOUNGSTERS PLAYING, NOW THE TEAMS ARE GOING FOR INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS even if they are mediocre over potentially talented raw players, Tyagi wont get many chances with Dhoni, I see the same with Shami, Abu, let us see if Sreesanth and Gony get more chances.Although the only interest I have in following IPL is seeing a match winning innings by a Pandey, Jaggi, Dhawan, Agarwal, Valthaty, or a good bowling performance by a Tyagi, Gony, Suyal, Abu, Shami, Shukla, Sreesanth.
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Dhoni will play 4 spinners but will not play Sudeep tyagi- i pity Sudeep' date=' whether he will ever get a chance in any IPL match or not.......???[/quote'] It is not a conspiracy against quick bowlers as some fans think. Dhoni just seems unwilling to change his XI ever. He likes to keep the same team throughout the tournament. It is an interesting strategy, but makes them rather boring to watch.
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Vinay has improved a g8 deal ' date=' but is only good enough as a support bowler, we all have seen what good pace bowling can do even in t20's, Ishant definitely in my book should get the new cherry, with Zak, UMESH, AARON ON THE OTHER END TO SHARE IT WITH HIM, why would you want to play VK if Pathan is fit as they have similar pace, in fact Pathan can do a lot more with the ball and also getting better.[/quote'] Not Umesh, imo. There is little merit to playing him in ODI cricket. Agree basically with what you are saying.
rkt.india Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 I've never said he is 'far' better than others, just a good bowler in ODI cricket. He is not world class or a match winner; but in ODI cricket, no one we have is world class and only perhaps Aaron is a match winner. Being fast is not the same as being a 'match winner'. Nathan Bracken was not a 'match winner' and he was an excellent ODI bowler; as was Glenn Mcgrath. I agree that PK is crap in ODIs. Bracken was a match winner in ODIs for Aussie. I too dont believe just in pace but utilization of that pace with other skills. Bracken lacked pace, but he had other skills, used to get bounce, swing, and pace variations with good yorkers.
msb1991 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 Bracken was a match winner in ODIs for Aussie. I too dont believe just in pace but utilization of that pace with other skills. Bracken lacked pace' date=' but he had other skills, used to get bounce, swing, and pace variations with good yorkers.[/quote'] Vinay also gets bounce. He seams the ball and I think his slower variations are improving.
rkt.india Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 Vinay also gets bounce. He seams the ball and I think his slower variations are improving. He lacks the execution and yorkers.
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