Bad performance has any relevance to selection anymore?

[vvvslaxman]

I am trying to draw a parallel between how selection was based on performance in the yesteryears. Even that was far from perfect. But decisions were taken when it had to be taken. Let us look at few such instances G.R.Viswanath Before the Pakistan series where he was dropped after making 1, 24, 9, 53, 9, 0, 37, 10 .. let us look at his performances. vs SL 9, 2 (inaugural test SL) vs England 1, 3, 54, 56, 75* vs England 8, 37, 3, 107, 15,0, 222, 74 I know his performance was not consistent. But do you think he would have played few more years in the present scenario? Sandeep Patil Epic failure against Pakistan dropped immediately. Recalled against West Indies at home. Dropped after two tests. Then he recalled against pakistan . He made 0,7, 127, 20, 30, 41 before he was dropped to accommodate Azharuddin (after Delhi loss, Kapil was dropped for a reckless shot). You think his career would have gone further and beyond if he were to play in this era? These players felt the heat as soon as they failed in a series or two. Do our current players feel the heat (ofcourse bowlers feel the heat all the time). I am talking about batsmen like Gambhir, Viru, Tendu, Dhoni.

[Pagalpanti]

Difference is they didn't get the opportunity or a great kick start in their career like a Sehwag or Gambhir did. Gambhir looked like one of the best openers going around in the World after 2009 kiwi series, not sure what went wrong with him after that. Sehwag we always knew was a power in SC pitches and hit n miss abroad.

[CG]

Unless you have a captain who is performing he will not have the courage to drop bignames.

[Lurker]

These players felt the heat as soon as they failed in a series or two. Do our current players feel the heat (ofcourse bowlers feel the heat all the time). I am talking about batsmen like Gambhir' date=' Viru, Tendu, Dhoni.[/quote'] Gundappa Vishwanath is a bit of forgotten hero in Indian cricket. Most fans forget that it was Vishy who was looked as the big Indian talent and not Sunil Gavaskar. Gavaskar of course persevered and delivered like a true mofo lol. There is almost a cult following of Vishy lovers who often tend to put him on par with Sunny. That said he was done by early 80s and may have struggled for a series or two at best. But for the most part he was a spent force. This coupled with the fight for the middle slot with Vengsarkar who was doing very good, and Amarnath who had amazing streaks at times effectively ended his career. Patil also suffered a bit with a packed middle order. There were quite a few names doing the round then Yashpal Sharma, Ashok Malhotra etc etc. All doing pretty well in domestic circuit. Patil was a swasbuckler and unfortunately he didnt get many chances. Today's Sehwag, Gambhir etc (wont put Sachin in the same category) enjoy the fact that there is few people contending for their spot and those that are genuine contenders get run over by CSK Express.

[rkt.india]

Today's Sehwag, Gambhir etc (wont put Sachin in the same category) enjoy the fact that there is few people contending for their spot and those that are genuine contenders get run over by CSK Express.

Wrong. There are a lot of guys doing well in domestic cricket, but the thing is no one talks and try to look at domestic cricket at all. I have not heard single word about current domestic season in news channels who will whole day talk about how Dhoni's 12-inch won us the WC. People likes of Vengsarkar simply say we do not have options or exceptional talents coming up, but they forget, were Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Gambhir were exceptional talents? not they were not. I still remember how Sehwag initially when picked in ODIs struggled against fast bowling but as he played genuine quick bowlers more, he became better. Only exceptional talent we had in last 20 years was SRT and to some extent Yuvraj who could not do justice to his talent because of his attitude.

[vamos_rafa]

Difference is they didn't get the opportunity or a great kick start in their career like a Sehwag or Gambhir did. Gambhir looked like one of the best openers going around in the World after 2009 kiwi series, not sure what went wrong with him after that. Sehwag we always knew was a power in SC pitches and hit n miss abroad.

Gambhir had a pretty ordinary start as well. He was found out against McGrath and Co. the sameway he has been now. But, he worked his way through the system and came back as a very strong player. But, I am afraid, now captaincy aspirations and his own pathetic form have made him a joke of a player. Also, the ever existing self-denial mode is not helping him one bit.

[maniac]

You can't go by the selectors rationale back then.....at least now a half decent performance gets u a longer rope,but bac then there were some instances when a player was dropped inexplicably

[diga]

Wrong. There are a lot of guys doing well in domestic cricket, but the thing is no one talks and try to look at domestic cricket at all. I have not heard single word about current domestic season in news channels who will whole day talk about how Dhoni's 12-inch won us the WC. People likes of Vengsarkar simply say we do not have options or exceptional talents coming up, but they forget, were Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Gambhir were exceptional talents? not they were not. I still remember how Sehwag initially when picked in ODIs struggled against fast bowling but as he played genuine quick bowlers more, he became better. Only exceptional talent we had in last 20 years was SRT and to some extent Yuvraj who could not do justice to his talent because of his attitude.

Agree somewhat.. But people who were pushed into A-tours did not exactly force their way into the Ind team by weight of runs/wkts except Pujara/Yadav. Some people were given umpteen opportunities in ODI's (Rohit Sharma- almost 100 ODI's) to check their consistency & temperament and failed miserably. Only way back is change of leadership & people.. may cause heartburn among many people, but no pain - no gain

[saneindian]

Vishwanath's stats post that great series vs Aus in 1979 read 29 tests, 1321 runs@30..as bad as Gambhir's, Sehwag's or Dhoni's numbers in their last 20-25 tests, though the quality of bowling those days was far superior to what we have right now. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35712.html?class=1;spanmin1=21+nov+1979;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting He did have a couple of good series in between vs England both in India and away including that wonderful 200 but beyond that he was also struggling big time and the final nail in the coffin was the failure vs Pakistan in a series which we lost at home. I am sure a similar failure by the current sooperstars vs Pakistan in the upcoming will be taken lightly either. Ganguly completely lost the support of the board in 2005 after he lost 4-2 in an ODI series. Sandeep Patil's case was a bizarre one. Forced out of the test side at 28 and never picked again!

[rkt.india]

Agree somewhat.. But people who were pushed into A-tours did not exactly force their way into the Ind team by weight of runs/wkts except Pujara/Yadav. Some people were given umpteen opportunities in ODI's (Rohit Sharma- almost 100 ODI's) to check their consistency & temperament and failed miserably. Only way back is change of leadership & people.. may cause heartburn among many people, but no pain - no gain

You wont see every one scoring runs in every match on A tours as they are tough tours for them. On both the A tours, our team did very well. You dont expect them to roll the oppopsition out because they are A players and not every one will perform or come to terms to foreign conditions. Whoever does well should be picked and I do not think A tours are the only criteria for selection. Domestic cricket is there too. Selectors should watch the players who are doing well and assess if any of them have the ability and talent to do well at test level. Selectors are not their to see stats and pick players. They are their to assess the talents, their temperament, ability, technique and then pick them. Stats are just an indication.

[The Outsider]

He did have a couple of good series in between vs England both in India and away including that wonderful 200 but beyond that he was also struggling big time and the final nail in the coffin was the failure vs Pakistan in a series which we lost at home.

Just a minor nitpick - that series was in Pakistan. The Imran Khan and reverse swing series which India lost 0-3. Patil was a victim of politics, and himself played a part in it. During the Kapil-Gavaskar tussle when Kapil was dropped, he supposedly became out of favor with both camps for his role. He had a few very good seasons in Ranji after being dropped but was never considered again.

[Number]

Wadekar won India 3 test series in a row, 2 of them outside SC then lost 1 series against England at home and was sacked.

[Lurker]

Wrong. There are a lot of guys doing well in domestic cricket' date= but the thing is no one talks and try to look at domestic cricket at all. I have not heard single word about current domestic season in news channels who will whole day talk about how Dhoni's 12-inch won us the WC. People likes of Vengsarkar simply say we do not have options or exceptional talents coming up, but they forget, were Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag, Gambhir were exceptional talents? not they were not. I still remember how Sehwag initially when picked in ODIs struggled against fast bowling but as he played genuine quick bowlers more, he became better. Only exceptional talent we had in last 20 years was SRT and to some extent Yuvraj who could not do justice to his talent because of his attitude.

I do not disagree with that. What I would say that in the era when Gundappa Vishwanath was dropped domestic cricket was still sacrosant. Top guns used to play for their Teams and Zones. The innings that put Vengsarkar in the Indian limelight was Irani Trophy in 76 when he clouted 6-7 sixes against Prasanna and Bedi (who were playing for Rest of India). Bombay also had in its team for the game Gavaskar, Shivalkar, Ashok Mankad etc. Vishy was playing for ROI. Thats how I remember late 80s and 90s when I started following cricket. Teams like Delhi, Haryana, Bombay, Bengal, Tamil Nadu all had stalwarts who would show up. Unlike today where these prima donna choose to show up for "practice". So the performences in domestic, great as they may be, are not really against the top dogs of the country and hence is looked at in suspicion.

[saneindian]

Wadekar won India 3 test series in a row' date=' 2 of them outside SC then lost 1 series against England at home and was sacked.[/quote'] Have only read about the Wadekar era and the series wins in early 70s. But looking purely at stats, Wadekar played 37 tests as a specialist batsman and averaged 31 scoring just 1 100. As a captain the numbers look even worse, 16 tests, average of 27, no 100s. No wonder he had very little support from the selection committee. Also the fact that we hardly played test cricket between the Eng tour of 1971 and the repeat tour in 1974 didn't seem to have helped him much.

[Lurker]

Have only read about the Wadekar era and the series wins in early 70s. But looking purely at stats, Wadekar played 37 tests as a specialist batsman and averaged 31 scoring just 1 100. As a captain the numbers look even worse, 16 tests, average of 27, no 100s. No wonder he had very little support from the selection committee. Also the fact that we hardly played test cricket between the Eng tour of 1971 and the repeat tour in 1974 didn't seem to have helped him much.

Wadekar's sacking had little to do with his performance and more to do with his relationship with Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi. Wadekar was made skipper as replacement to Pataudi and the relationship was strained ever since. The spinners were always closer to Pataudi and even though India was winning there were groups within the team. After the loss to WI this was over the edge. Wadekar quit, Pataudi returned.

[MCcricket]

Cheeka and Co were the biggest ido!@# and current selectors are the same lol Balaji replaced with V Kumar and then with Mithun and how may I ask all these south players deserve a chance especially Mithun he is the worst player for t20, out of form and ragged action will leak runs, what is wrong with them, Pankaj, Gony, Shami or even S Sharma, Indian cricket is run by ret!@#$.How can we have bench strength when they choose players on purpose who are mediocre, Unadkats, PK, VK, mITHUN, aRAVIND LOL.Pankaj, Gony, Shami, Rohit, Saha, should be in the picture, T20 team is weak and have no hope in current bunch of jokers too