Why Tendulkar must retire now

[rkt.india]

Based on the fact both Lara and Sachin averaged above 50 in 90 in an era when almost every team had 2 all time greats (or atleast their best ever) at their best. Only one of the similar caliber of current generation is Steyn How many ATG bowlers did Chanderpaul or Dravid had to face in their career? And then there is the wickets which were bowler friendly unlike the flat wkts. Dravid had poor records in 2 countries (SA and Srl ) which had ATG bowlers and his record Aus when Mcgrath was pretty bad too.This isnt a slur on Dravid just a example of the gulf in class btw Dravid and Sachin at their peak.

Dravid was the most successful batsman in 1996 tour of SA when both Donald and Pollock played.

[BeautifulGame]

Dravid was the most successful batsman in 1996 tour of SA when both Donald and Pollock played.

He had one magnificient test (Wanderers test) but apart from that he has been pretty poor (including the 97 series) in SA. One test doesnt change a record over 15 year career.

[vvvslaxman]

He had one magnificient test (Wanderers test) but apart from that he has been pretty poor (including the 97 series) in SA. One test doesnt change a record over 15 year career.

In that series Dravid was the highest run getter. At kingsmead on an unplayable surface where India got bowled out for 100 & 66 Draviid stood around and made 27 not ot. Definitely in terms of batsmanship Tendulkar s pretty good in lot of areas. But when it comes to leaving the ball Dravid is better than Sachin. That is why if you put on a very difficult surface i would back Dravid more than Tendulkar to make some runs. Against spin Tendulkar is always better but only on true surface.

[harmuk]

Based on the fact both Lara and Sachin averaged above 50 in 90 in an era when almost every team had 2 all time greats (or atleast their best ever) at their best. Only one of the similar caliber of current generation is Steyn How many ATG bowlers did Chanderpaul or Dravid had to face in their career? And then there is the wickets which were bowler friendly unlike the flat wkts. Dravid had poor records in 2 countries (SA and Srl ) which had ATG bowlers and his record Aus when Mcgrath was pretty bad too.This isnt a slur on Dravid just a example of the gulf in class btw Dravid and Sachin at their peak.

Come up with something better. It is not true somehow in 90's there were some greats bowlers and come 2000's all of them vanished. And besides Sachin is still playing and Lara did till 2007, and still they did not do anything siginficant in 2000's against the so called inferior attacks, to seperate them from the rest. All that is just a myth. The fact is Chanderpaul for WI's and RD and VVS for India were as good in tougher conditions and if anything more reliable than the other two, more hyped players. It is one thing to say that in ones opinion that they rate SRT or Lara as the best, but utter non-sense to put them on a pedestal and downplay other equally great players be it Dravid or Ponting or Chanderpaul or Laxman or a Kallis. If anything for India Dravid and Laxman duo are the ones behind most of the memorable wins, over the last dozen or so years, in a team which Tendulkar was a very much part of. I just do not get this class apart thing at all. Figmentation of imagination perhaps.

[panther]

Tendulker is the best batsman we have ever seen, this is coming from someone who finds it hard to say anything good about Indian cricket.

[Number]

Tendulker is the best batsman we have ever seen' date=' this is coming from someone who finds it hard to say anything good about Indian cricket.[/quote'] If we rate them by match-winning capability then Inzi is undoubtedly the biggest match winner ever. Avg of 85 in wins only after Bradman (130).

[panther]

If we rate them by match-winning capability then Inzi is undoubtedly the biggest match winner ever. Avg of 85 in wins only after Bradman (130).

Tendulker-best batsman Inzi-best match winner

[Junyfan]

Tendulker is the best batsman we have ever seen' date=' this is coming from someone who finds it hard to say anything good about Indian cricket.[/quote'] exactly,some indians are overrating rahul Dravid,he was pretty much a defensive bat,with a strike rat of 42 is nothing to be proud of.

[panther]

exactly' date='some indians are overrating rahul Dravid,he was pretty much a defensive bat,with a strike rat of 42 is nothing to be proud of.[/quote'] Amarnath was better then both SRT and dravid Against pace and swing but overall srt was the more balanced and better batsman.

[The Outsider]

Well then Outsider is wrong, and so are you.

Can't say for Sooda, but I've never claimed Tendulkar to be a lone ranger, in fact have argued against that notion on various occasions.

[The Outsider]

As a batsman Lara and Sachin are a class above the rest. In the 2nd league it will be Ponting > Kallis > Dravid. So Kallis is definitely among top 5 batsmen of his generation.

Waugh would be even above Ponting. Then there is nothing to choose between Ponting, Dravid, Kallis, Sangakkara - there is no way Kallis is among the top 5 batsmen by even a pluralistic opinion among his generation.

Will Imran or Headlee be in the top 5 bowlers of their era ?

Hadlee certainly - I can only think of Marshall as being better than him, some might argue Lillee but it still leaves Hadlee enough room to comfortably make the top 5. Imran would be borderline I guess - he had 2 years this and that side of his surgery during which he was as good or even a bowler than Marshall, but he had extended lull periods as well, so I would hesitate to put him in the top 5.

[The Outsider]

It is not true somehow in 90's there were some greats bowlers and come 2000's all of them vanished.

It's actually true. Here is your homework - draw up a list of great bowlers from the 90s and 00s. Please exclude the great bowlers from the 90s who happened to play a couple of years in 00s.

[BeautifulGame]

Come up with something better. It is not true somehow in 90's there were some greats bowlers and come 2000's all of them vanished. And besides Sachin is still playing and Lara did till 2007, and still they did not do anything siginficant in 2000's against the so called inferior attacks, to seperate them from the rest. All that is just a myth. The fact is Chanderpaul for WI's and RD and VVS for India were as good in tougher conditions and if anything more reliable than the other two, more hyped players. It is one thing to say that in ones opinion that they rate SRT or Lara as the best, but utter non-sense to put them on a pedestal and downplay other equally great players be it Dravid or Ponting or Chanderpaul or Laxman or a Kallis. If anything for India Dravid and Laxman duo are the ones behind most of the memorable wins, over the last dozen or so years, in a team which Tendulkar was a very much part of. I just do not get this class apart thing at all. Figmentation of imagination perhaps.

Ambrose Walsh Wasim Waqar Kumble Srinath Pollack Domald Macgrath Warne Murali Vaas They didn't vanish just retired or just in their last leg

[Deleted_User_1]

Amarnath was better then both SRT and dravid Against pace and swing but overall srt was the more balanced and better batsman.

Amarnath was highly inconsistent in his career to be an ATG. Although there was a period in the early 80s around the WC win and before where he may have been the batsman in the world....

[The Outsider]

The funny bit is Kallis is hyped up the same junta who like to talk about "clutch" players. Kallis played one of the most pathetic ODI innings in the '99 WC Semi Final. He completely choked up the run rate and got out after consuming so many deliveries. The 2007 SF was hilarious. King Kallis came out with intention to dominate, stepped out and stuck McGrath for a boundary, next ball McGrath clean bowled him trying to play the same stroke. And he did it again in the 2011 QF when South Africa was coasting along, King Kallis choked and deposited a long hop straight to mid wicket. What a "clutch" player. :adore:

[vvvslaxman]

Amarnath was better then both SRT and dravid Against pace and swing but overall srt was the more balanced and better batsman.

Amarnath was best against "doctored balls" :cantstop:

[adi B]

The funny bit is Kallis is hyped up the same junta who like to talk about "clutch" players. Kallis played one of the most pathetic ODI innings in the '99 WC Semi Final. He completely choked up the run rate and got out after consuming so many deliveries. The 2007 SF was hilarious. King Kallis came out with intention to dominate, stepped out and stuck McGrath for a boundary, next ball McGrath clean bowled him trying to play the same stroke. And he did it again in the 2011 QF when South Africa was coasting along, King Kallis choked and deposited a long hop straight to mid wicket. What a "clutch" player. :adore:

all those chokes were in odis where sachin>>kallis,junta is talking about tests where kallis does have tremendous credibility

[BeautifulGame]

all those chokes were in odis where sachin>>kallis' date='junta is talking about tests where kallis does have tremendous credibility[/quote'] Tremendous credibility such that he averaged in mid 20s AT HOME against Australia when Warne and Macgrath were playing..

[Muloghonto]

No he is not' date=' way ahead. Things just do not add up.[/quote'] Yes, he is way, way ahead of Kallis. What Kallis is, is in the 2nd tier of alltime greats- way behind the likes of Bradman, Sobers, Kanhai, Harvey, Gavaskar, Richards, Tendy, Lara, etc. This is because while Kallis may look like an unbeatable batsman and even more solid than Tendy against average/mediocre attacks, he has never really done well against a world class or even a good attack. Both Kallis and Ponting started to rise in ranking and stats when Ambrose, Walsh,Waqar,Wasim, Donald, deVilliers, etc. retired. Not a coincidence.

[Muloghonto]

Would you still give this same explanation for why South Africa chokes in crucial matches?

They've really only choked thrice and that too, more the tailenders/management staff than their batsmen.

Performing in a high-pressure game is very different from a regular game. South African teams have not been able to handle them despite having all the skill in the world. Sachin belongs to the same category.

A must win group game in league stage is just as high pressure as a semi final or final, its not a 'regular game'. Period. I fail to see how 'must win to stay alive in the tournament' is not a high pressure game. Care to explain ? I also fail to see how a semi final is less pressure than the final.