Comparing Kapil dev and Imran Khan

[rtmohanlal]

lot of manipulations there' date='[/quote'] yes definitely..but these are plain facts...and if you could point out any thing wrong in what i posted, only happy to accept your points

[Muloghonto]

Kapil was a better batsman and more destructive than Imran. Imran was a better bowler in tests. In one dayers, kapil was a better bowler and batsman than Imran.

[Hafeez]

Kapil was a better batsman and more destructive than Imran. Imran was a better bowler in tests. In one dayers, kapil was a better bowler and batsman than Imran.

in both Odi and test Imran khan was far far better dont compare him with Kapil

[rtmohanlal]

Kapil was a better batsman and more destructive than Imran. Imran was a better bowler in tests. In one dayers, kapil was a better bowler and batsman than Imran.

yes ...spot on.of the 4 above aspects the only one where Imran outweighed Kapil was in test bowling.even in test bowling, though it seems a wide gap between them at first glance , we can see this gap reducing considerably when we take into account 2 things, longevity and 'support at other end' factors.here we have to take into account the knee surgery of Kapil in 84.till then he had played 62 tests and taken 247 wkts.almost equal final wkts/test rate as that of Imran even with little support at other end!!!. but it is to his credit that he didn't miss at all any test India played moving forward.but that affected his bowling effectiveness considerably from there on and made serious dip in his bowling stats.that was his attitude towards playing for the country thru out his entire career, i mean play at any cost.and this is exactly the same reason i feel his test bowling stats as such alone cannot be considered when comparing his bowling with that of other all rounders.

[rtmohanlal]

in both Odi and test Imran khan was far far better dont compare him with Kapil

why can't you give valid reasons for your claims?

[Muloghonto]

in both Odi and test Imran khan was far far better dont compare him with Kapil

Err no, in ODIs, Kapil was far better than Imran. He was a much better lower order batsman and a more containing bowler. In ODIs, the objective for the bowler is to give the least amount of runs away. Not take wickets. A guy who has figures of 10-3-21-0 has done a better job in ODIs than a guy who has 10-0-55-5. In this regard, Kapil is ahead. In ODI lower order batting, we dont want a plodding along at 70-72 strike rate from position 6 or 7. Those guys most often come in around 44-45th over and they are required to get 20 off of 20 balls or something similar. Again, Kapil is a much better lower order ODI bat than Imran. I can seriously find a place for Kapil in an alltime ODI XI - he is the perfect #7 bat and first change bowler. Imran ? He is okay, no big shakes at ODIs.

[Muloghonto]

yes ...spot on.of the 4 above aspects the only one where Imran outweighed Kapil was in test bowling.even in test bowling' date=' though it seems a wide gap between them at first glance , we can see this gap reducing considerably when we take into account 2 things, longevity and 'support at other end' factors.here we have to take into account the knee surgery of Kapil in 84.till then he had played 62 tests and taken 247 wkts.almost equal final wkts/test rate as that of Imran even with little support at other end!!!. but it is to his credit that he didn't miss at all any test India played moving forward.but that affected his bowling effectiveness considerably from there on and made serious dip in his bowling stats.that was his attitude towards playing for the country thru out his entire career, i mean play at any cost.and this is exactly the same reason i feel his test bowling stats as such alone cannot be considered when comparing his bowling with that of other all rounders.[/quote'] Kapil also has another thing going for him- he was exceptionally good against the undisputed champion team of his time, aka the West Indies. He averages 30 against the west indies, 3 centuries , 2 at home and 1 away, while taking 89 wickets @ 24.89 in 25 tests against the West Indies, with a 10-fer and 4 five-fers. he also has 35 wickets from 9 matches @ 23+ change in the west indies. Imran on the other hand, averages 27 against the West Indies with the bat, a pathetic 21+ change in west indies while averaging 21+ change with the ball against them, taking 80 wickets in 18 tests and 48 in 8 tests in west indies while averaging 25+ change. I do consider the record against the best teams of your time to be of more import and this is the same reason why i rate the records against Australia and South Africa since 1993 or so as far more instructive than records versus other teams (unless it is playing spin in the subcontinent, in which case, performance in India or Sri Lanka is a must). As you can see, Kapil was a better bat. he didnt care about padding his stats like Khan did with his million not outs near the end, Kapil went whammo and tonked the best bowlers around when he clicked or threw his wicket away. Imran will be a better test bowler in my eyes but not by much. his stats are seriously padded due to ball tampering and highly favourable home umpires who gave some of the most ridiculous LBWs you'd ever see for the Paki bowlers meanwhile giving virtually no lbws to the opposition bowlers.

[rtmohanlal]

Kapil also has another thing going for him- he was exceptionally good against the undisputed champion team of his time, aka the West Indies. He averages 30 against the west indies, 3 centuries , 2 at home and 1 away, while taking 89 wickets @ 24.89 in 25 tests against the West Indies, with a 10-fer and 4 five-fers. he also has 35 wickets from 9 matches @ 23+ change in the west indies. Imran on the other hand, averages 27 against the West Indies with the bat, a pathetic 21+ change in west indies while averaging 21+ change with the ball against them, taking 80 wickets in 18 tests and 48 in 8 tests in west indies while averaging 25+ change. I do consider the record against the best teams of your time to be of more import and this is the same reason why i rate the records against Australia and South Africa since 1993 or so as far more instructive than records versus other teams (unless it is playing spin in the subcontinent, in which case, performance in India or Sri Lanka is a must). As you can see, Kapil was a better bat. he didnt care about padding his stats like Khan did with his million not outs near the end, Kapil went whammo and tonked the best bowlers around when he clicked or threw his wicket away. Imran will be a better test bowler in my eyes but not by much. his stats are seriously padded due to ball tampering and highly favourable home umpires who gave some of the most ridiculous LBWs you'd ever see for the Paki bowlers meanwhile giving virtually no lbws to the opposition bowlers.

though agreeing with all your points , can't understand what is bad with Imran' s bowling record against Windies.can you pls elaborate?with his batting i completely agree with you though.he has this huge no: of not outs.in certain innings of those, if we go deep we can see that he just remained not out even with out shielding tail enders. from bowlers.here we have to take note that though some one with descent defensive technique, he was certainly not a Boycott or Gavaskar who would go on and play long inns more often.in all these dibbly dobbly 10-20 not out scores of Imran there was no guarantee that he would have continued and made substantial scores....and all this in only 126 inns(only 67% of total inns as that of Kapil).another peculiarity of Imran's career which i look with sore eyes is his match density...only 88 tests in long 21 years.4.25 tests/year. for Kapil it is 8.2/year.i wonder whether Imran would have maintained the same standard had he played his entire 88 tests at 8.2/year, ie in almost 11 years only.

[velu]

imran is way way overrated by padosis.. according to internet warriors , he was suppose to be the PM by now .. but he got not even 15% of the votes

[Number]

imran is way way overrated by padosis.. according to internet warriors , he was suppose to be the PM by now .. but he got not even 15% of the votes

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[vandokkum]

Some people seem to watch cricket on a calculator... regardless of stats, Kapil dev was a better batsman than Imran, Imran was certainly the better bowler though.

[rtmohanlal]

Some people seem to watch cricket on a calculator... regardless of stats' date=' Kapil dev was a better batsman than Imran, Imran was certainly the better bowler though.[/quote'] Kapil's strike rate is out of ordinary.to think that he even out weighed Viv richards by almost 11 in str rate is unbelievable.infact when on song he not just dominated but murdered even the best of bowling line ups.my first impression was that Botham was the best batsman of the 4 allrouders.but since Botham having a str: rate of only 61, i have no doubt in my mind that Kapil was the best batsman among them.

[Muloghonto]

]though agreeing with all your points ' date=' can't understand what is bad with Imran' s bowling record against Windies.can you pls elaborate?[/b']with his batting i completely agree with you though.he has this huge no: of not outs.in certain innings of those, if we go deep we can see that he just remained not out even with out shielding tail enders. from bowlers.here we have to take note that though some one with descent defensive technique, he was certainly not a Boycott or Gavaskar who would go on and play long inns more often.in all these dibbly dobbly 10-20 not out scores of Imran there was no guarantee that he would have continued and made substantial scores....and all this in only 126 inns(only 67% of total inns as that of Kapil).another peculiarity of Imran's career which i look with sore eyes is his match density...only 88 tests in long 21 years.4.25 tests/year. for Kapil it is 8.2/year.i wonder whether Imran would have maintained the same standard had he played his entire 88 tests at 8.2/year, ie in almost 11 years only.

Theres nothing wrong with Imran's record against the west indies. I used his stats to demonstrate how against the best of the best, Kapil's bowling closes the gap between him and Imran significantly. The 'against best of the best' is a relevant benchmark, especially since we love to talk about alltime XIs and such. Against such 'hypothetical great teams' , whether you should be considered to play or not, has more to do with performance against the best of the best than overall records, because it doesnt matter if you are Waqar Younis who terrorises the Kiwis but lays turds after turds against the Aussies or the Saffie batters, because in an alltime XI, you wont get freebies like you get against the minnows.

[Ahmed]

tendulkar/gavaskar are.

Tendulkar/Gavaskar are probabaly the best batsmen from SC, but when you talk about best cricketer he has to be good in at least two departments and Imran Khan is that, he was a very good batsman and a very fine bowler, hence better cricketer than Tendulkar and Gavaskar. That's my theory :giggle:

[Muloghonto]

Tendulkar/Gavaskar are probabaly the best batsmen from SC' date=' but when you talk about best cricketer he has to be good in at least two departments and Imran Khan is that, he was a very good batsman and a very fine bowler, hence better [b']cricketer than Tendulkar and Gavaskar. That's my theory :giggle:

Actually the best and probably the most underrated cricketer from the subcontinent was Vinoo Mankad.

[Trichromatic]

How many batsmen have scored centuries against famous 4 fast bowlers of WI?

[ravishingravi]

imran is way way overrated by padosis.. according to internet warriors , he was suppose to be the PM by now .. but he got not even 15% of the votes

:hysterical::hysterical:

[jalebi_bhai]

Screw statistics.....Kapil Dev has a moustache......Imran Khan doesn't.....we all know that in the Desi world, the one with the moustache is obviously better.......hence.....Kapil Dev > Imran Khan. Case closed.

[Crookbond]

Screw statistics.....Kapil Dev has a moustache......Imran Khan doesn't.....we all know that in the Desi world' date=' the one with the moustache is obviously better.......hence.....Kapil Dev > Imran Khan. Case closed.[/quote'] :giggle:

[PriyankaSR]

IK is probably the greatest cricketer so far from SC.

:WTF: :WTF: :hysterical: people don't know Sachin Tendulkar here... Wow

but dude Imran khan has 8 Man of the series award in 29 Test series Even sachin has 6 man of the series award till now after 60 around test series

Yaar aise toh Sachin ki 100 Centuries hain. Ab compare kar. That's a wrong comparison. Don't bring Stats in while comparing Sachin and Imran. They both have played different roles.