mishra Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 HC's observation that case is of national importance is good enough for me. I dont care, If someone is terrorist and involved in plotting/killings of innocent people in mass scale, Fake or no Fake , can be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiret Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Which HC has observed that unarmed people in Police custody can be murdered without being given a chance to a fair trial and to confront the evidence against them in a Court of law ? And if you do believe in this MURDER , you might as well take a printout of the Indian constitution and shred it to pieces. ---------------------------------------- Ranbir Singh was also declared a dreaded Criminal by the police after his fake encounter in Dehradun .And gullible indians rejoiced in his death . 18 Cops were convicted in his murder last year . Ranbir had no criminal background and was just a student out looking for a Job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Dehradun_Encounter Till date no motive has been established . Why did 18 COPS and perhaps more , conspire to kill Ranbir Singh, a middle class boy with no criminal background ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I support above statement for yours in non terrorist cases. For terrorists, Its a case of "Good Riddance". Implementation of law and evidence gathering is a problem in India and I dont support terrorist take advantage of this situation.I support right to life of victims/possible victims of terrorist attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hence retroactively . It does not matter if it was Times of Gazwa or the Daily Gazwa or The Gazwa Herald .Great. So' date= the LeT mouthpiece should have identified Ishrat and her team before the terrorist operation, only then would it count as proof? Will any terrorist organization identify its hit-squad beforehand? The question one needs to ask is whether LeT is/was in habit of claiming terrorist incidents falsely. I don't think that is the case. Supreme Court is very clear on Hearsay . And headley's so-called testimony about a dead person SIX YEARS after her death would also have been thrown out by the court.Why the hell would Headley (who is locked up for a long time) lie about Ishrat? If he was indeed keen on hurting India and angering Indian Muslims he would have actually said that Ishrat was innocent whom the CM of Gujarat and the IB murdered in cold blood. That would have been his sweet revenge against the Indian intelligence agencies by painting the IB as a bunch of trigger happy assassination team killing innocent Muslims for fun. His only hope of leniency in the US justice system is if he sticks to his commitment of truthfully confessing his knowledge of and involvement with the LeT. What evidence existed BEFORE Ishrat was murdered , that she had committed Terrorist acts or was about to commit Terrorist acts ? Yes there was an IB alert , but do you know what it said ?Good question. The IB alert was based in intercepted phone calls to the pakistan based handler of Ishrat's hit-squad. These calls were "leaked" by the IB a couple of years ago and aired on TV news. The link is: NxggRHlAIGo If there was court trial Ishrat and her comrades would be behind bars based on these tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiret Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Why do you choose to believe LeT propaganda ? And if you do choose to believe their claims , why don't you believe their retraction ? "Why would headley lie ?" Irrelevant . Just because you are unable to fathom his reasoning does not mean his version can be blindly accepted as the truth . have you considered his HEARSAY could be wrong ? He might be grossly mistaken ? Referring to some other Ishrat ? Either way , this is no evidence that stand any scrutiny in a court of law and no person can be RETROACTIVELY declared a terrorist based on some post on a website or pamphlet or somebody's Hearsay sitting in an FBI jail cell SIX years after her death. Good question. The IB alert was based in intercepted phone calls to the pakistan based handler of Ishrat's hit-squad. These calls were "leaked" by the IB a couple of years ago and aired on TV news. I have seen the Headlines Today show a while back. If i am not mistaken , In none of the calls is Ishrat even mentioned or heard . The video resorts to circular reasoning by again referring to Headley's hearsay to retroactively indict her as a Terrorist . If there was court trial Ishrat and her comrades would be behind bars based on these tapes. Or perhaps She would have been acquitted by The Supreme Court like it acquitted all the falsely accused in the Akshardham temple terror case. The Supreme Court in it's judgement lambasted the Gujarat Police for their shoddy investigation and the Gujarat government for not applying its mind in a case which concerned national security. While acquitting all the accused, the apex court was scathing in its criticism of the incompetent investigation and sharply admonished the police and the then Gujarat home minister, CM Narendra Modi. Page 188 of the verdict states: “…there was a serious attempt on the part of the investigating agency to fabricate a case against the accused persons and frame them…” "Instead of booking the real culprits responsible for taking so many precious lives, the police caught innocent people and got grievous charges imposed against them which resulted in their conviction and subsequent sentencing," the bench said. LINK In all probability , if these innocents had been eliminated in a fake encounter a decade ago , many of us would be rejoicing in their deaths and positing illogical justifications ( The Ghazwa Herald , Headley et.al) for their murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Why do you choose to believe LeT propaganda ? And if you do choose to believe their claims , why don't you believe their retraction ? "Why would headley lie ?" Irrelevant . Just because you are unable to fathom his reasoning does not mean his version can be blindly accepted as the truth . have you considered his HEARSAY could be wrong ? He might be grossly mistaken ? Referring to some other Ishrat ?Look, my opinion on Ishrat is not just based on Headley's testimony alone or on the LeT mouthpiece. But is taken together along with the intelligence input, her accompanying pakistani men (who had no business being in India), Javed Sheikh's dubious past and multiple passports, and the phone intercepts. Either way , this is no evidence that stand any scrutiny in a court of law and no person can be RETROACTIVELY declared a terrorist based on some post on a website or pamphlet or somebody's Hearsay sitting in an FBI jail cell SIX years after her death.That is your opinion. Afzal Guru was convicted of the parliament attack and sentenced to death on equally (or even less) compelling evidence. I have seen the Headlines Today show a while back. If i am not mistaken , In none of the calls is Ishrat even mentioned or heard . The video resorts to circular reasoning by again referring to Headley's hearsay to retroactively indict her as a Terrorist .The voice of Javed Sheikh, who was Ishrat's companion (accomplice) as admitted by her parents and is heard on the tapes. The reference to Ishrat's home is mentioned in code as a place to stow weapons. Obviously, Ishrat was not the ringleader, but she was probably a minor part of the squad, perhaps used as cover - a female would arise less suspicion. Or perhaps She would have been acquitted by The Supreme Court like it acquitted all the falsely accused in the Akshardham temple terror case. Or she would have been convicted and "seculars" would keep crying over her conviction like they kept crying over Afzal Guru. In the 1993 bomb blast case, people were convicted for long sentences based only on circumstantial or even no evidence. S.N. Thapa, former additional customs collector, preventive In the 10,000 page judgement copy provided, TADA Court judge, P.D. Kode resons that even though there is no direct or in-direct evidence against Mr. S.N. Thapa, he is awarded a term of life imprisonment because he was the seniormost customs officer and thus must be knowing about the conspiracy. Till his last days, Thapa proclaimed his innocence and was confident that the greater conspiracy of his wrongful arrest,trial and conviction would be unveiled in the Supreme Court who, in 1994 granted him bail after going through all evidence stating that there is no direct or in-direct evidence to prove that Mr. S.N. Thapa was part in planning, landing or transportation of contraband substances nor that was he aware of any such conspiracy for blasts in Mumbai. S.N. Thapa died due to lung cancer on 11 April 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 This is what Ishrat's family has to say about the last time Ishrat spoke to them. ...... It's the last call Ishrat made home, to Mumbra, on June 11, 2004, three days before her death, that mother Shamima can never forget. She was calling from a public phone booth outside a Nashik bus stop. "Uncle (Javed Sheikh) hasn't come yet," Shamima says she told him. A few minutes later, Ishrat called up again to say, in what her mother remembers as a terrified voice, "Ammi, he has come but with some strange men." She hung up abruptly and the next the Raza family heard of her was when a local journalist brought them a newspaper cutting reporting the encounter in Gujarat. Javed Sheikh alias Pranesh Pillai was Ishrat's companion who was killed along with her, and police say he too was an operative of the Lashkar. After the encounter, the militant group too claimed the two were its operatives, before retracting. For the Razas, Javed, shady as he was, was a benefactor who had helped Ishrat earn money to help them tide over tough times. Making ends meet had not always been difficult for the Razas. Ishrat's father Mohammad Shamim Raza was the proprietor of a Mumbai-based construction company called Asian Constructions while mother Shamima worked for a long time at a medicine packaging company in Vashi. .......... http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/a-bright-teen-who-smiled-all-day-mischievous-yet-understanding/878356/0 Ishrat was probably ensnared into the conspiracy by Javed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 ^ If it was West, whole family and frnds would be questioned or trying to find excuses why didnt they report it to police, if they suspected something fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiret Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 But is taken together along with the intelligence input' date=' [/quote'] If i am not mistaken , the IB input does not mention Ishrat . It mentions 2 paki men from Pakistani Punjab .I will try to post an online link 2 this, it was uploaded a while back by either outlook or HT . What almost no journalist has noticed is that this has been corroborated by the anticipatory bail peition of ADGP PP Pandey who was on the run . In his bail petition he mentioned he forwarded a similar Intelligence input . No mention of any woman. The CBI chargesheet claims , The Pakis were in the custody of Gujarat police for almost three months. Zeeshan was in custody by the month of April 2004. While Ishrat was taken into custody in June . So in all probability she was not accompanying the Pakistanis. Afzal got his day in court . That is the only point being made : The 19yr old Girl deserved her day in Court . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 ot2YrbcLuPo Ajit Duval confirming Ishrat Jahans terrorist status. This is closest to truth, intelligence we would ever have. Court has accepted PP Pandeys version of events and reinstated him. Offcourse its different matter that some icfers have more intelligence and at the same time fairer than the courts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Great. So' date=' the LeT mouthpiece should have identified Ishrat and her team [i']before the terrorist operation, only then would it count as proof? Will any terrorist organization identify its hit-squad beforehand? The question one needs to ask is whether LeT is/was in habit of claiming terrorist incidents falsely. I don't think that is the case. Why the hell would Headley (who is locked up for a long time) lie about Ishrat? If he was indeed keen on hurting India and angering Indian Muslims he would have actually said that Ishrat was innocent whom the CM of Gujarat and the IB murdered in cold blood. That would have been his sweet revenge against the Indian intelligence agencies by painting the IB as a bunch of trigger happy assassination team killing innocent Muslims for fun. His only hope of leniency in the US justice system is if he sticks to his commitment of truthfully confessing his knowledge of and involvement with the LeT. Good question. The IB alert was based in intercepted phone calls to the pakistan based handler of Ishrat's hit-squad. These calls were "leaked" by the IB a couple of years ago and aired on TV news. The link is: NxggRHlAIGo If there was court trial Ishrat and her comrades would be behind bars based on these tapes. Ch0d yaar, in logon ko kya samjhayega? Some of our countrymen, especially minority, communists and AAPtards have soft corner for anti nationals and terrorists, they probably celebrated 26/11 & other terror activities along with their ilk. They don't give two hoots about the sacrifices of our Army, Intelligence, Police, NSGs etc. Always siding with terrorists, always. Can you imagine the stress our security apparatus has to go through because of these scumbags. On one hand they have to protect us from external/internal threats who are better armed, have better body protection and patronage from traitors from within this country. They don't get monetary benefits, recognition, praise when they save us from these rats, in stead they will get hounded up, vilified and spat at when they take decisive action against enemies of India. A bunch of ungrateful snakes around us, and sadly some in this forum bear uncanny resemblance to these snakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Which HC has observed that unarmed people in Police custody can be murdered without being given a chance to a fair trial and to confront the evidence against them in a Court of law ? And if you do believe in this MURDER , you might as well take a printout of the Indian constitution and shred it to pieces. ---------------------------------------- Ranbir Singh was also declared a dreaded Criminal by the police after his fake encounter in Dehradun .And gullible indians rejoiced in his death . 18 Cops were convicted in his murder last year . Ranbir had no criminal background and was just a student out looking for a Job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Dehradun_Encounter Till date no motive has been established . Why did 18 COPS and perhaps more , conspire to kill Ranbir Singh, a middle class boy with no criminal background ? That was probably a case of altercation which led to him being killed by the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiret Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 That was probably a case of altercation which led to him being killed by the police. No ,It is equally Probable there was no altercation. It was a criminal Conspiracy hatched by the convicted Police officers . The initial police version was that he snatched the pistol of a police officer at a Checkpost and ran into a forest where he was killed in an encounter . That version was demolished by the investigative agencies. He was kidnapped , tortured and murdered by Dehradun Police. 18 cops were convicted last year. Ranbir Singh's father , An ex-Army personnel : "Hakikat aaj tak pata nahi chali. (The reality is still not known). Why did they kill my son? He was not a criminal. He had just got done with his MBA exam and the result was awaited. He took my permission to go to Dehradun for a job. They killed him for their promotion. Maximum encounters are fake. The police does it all the time for their vested interests,” said Mr. Singh, who did rounds of politicians and courts to get a CBI probe in the matter and then to get the trial shifted to Delhi. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Which HC has observed that unarmed people in Police custody can be murdered without being given a chance to a fair trial and to confront the evidence against them in a Court of law ? And if you do believe in this MURDER , you might as well take a printout of the Indian constitution and shred it to pieces. ---------------------------------------- Ranbir Singh was also declared a dreaded Criminal by the police after his fake encounter in Dehradun .And gullible indians rejoiced in his death . 18 Cops were convicted in his murder last year . Ranbir had no criminal background and was just a student out looking for a Job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Dehradun_Encounter Till date no motive has been established . Why did 18 COPS and perhaps more , conspire to kill Ranbir Singh, a middle class boy with no criminal background ? No ,It is equally Probable there was no altercation. It was a criminal Conspiracy hatched by the convicted Police officers . The initial police version was that he snatched the pistol of a police officer at a Checkpost and ran into a forest where he was killed in an encounter . That version was demolished by the investigative agencies. He was kidnapped , tortured and murdered by Dehradun Police. 18 cops were convicted last year. Ranbir Singh's father , An ex-Army personnel : "Hakikat aaj tak pata nahi chali. (The reality is still not known). Why did they kill my son? He was not a criminal. He had just got done with his MBA exam and the result was awaited. He took my permission to go to Dehradun for a job. They killed him for their promotion. Maximum encounters are fake. The police does it all the time for their vested interests,” said Mr. Singh, who did rounds of politicians and courts to get a CBI probe in the matter and then to get the trial shifted to Delhi. " This is the only reason I have. He might have a feud with some policeman. He was a jaat. You know jaat 16 duni 8 idiom. Jaats coming form villages lose their mind very quickly and become abusive. They are always keen on indulging in altercations and have huge egos. Something on similar lines must have happened. Policeman got together and planned to assassinate him and gave it a name of encounter of a criminal. There are a lot of such encounters of criminals happen here in UP, Punjab, Haryana, MP. Recently, a notorious gangster Bhoora was killed in an encounter. There was a bounty on him and was wanted in 11 states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Some of our countrymen' date=' especially minority, communists and AAPtards have soft corner for anti nationals and terrorists, they probably celebrated 26/11 & other terror activities along with their ilk. They don't give two hoots about the sacrifices of our Army, Intelligence, Police, NSGs etc. Always siding with terrorists, always. Can you imagine the stress our security apparatus has to go through because of these scumbags. On one hand they have to protect us from external/internal threats who are better armed, have better body protection and patronage from traitors from within this country. They don't get monetary benefits, recognition, praise when they save us from these rats, in stead they will get hounded up, vilified and spat at when they take decisive action against enemies of India. A bunch of ungrateful snakes around us, and sadly some in this forum bear uncanny resemblance to these snakes.[/quote'] +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 No ,It is equally Probable there was no altercation. It was a criminal Conspiracy hatched by the convicted Police officers . The initial police version was that he snatched the pistol of a police officer at a Checkpost and ran into a forest where he was killed in an encounter . That version was demolished by the investigative agencies. He was kidnapped , tortured and murdered by Dehradun Police. 18 cops were convicted last year. .. Appreciate where you are coming from. Even if there was a altercation or any sort, Then too it wasnt justifiable. Infact any such cold blooded murder arent justifiable even if deceased was career criminal. In this case it was a crime committed by policemen and rightly court punished them all. But to relate it with Ishrat Jehangir case where there is overwhelming evidence that shooting was done in the line of duty and perpetrators were terrorists planning assassination attempt on would be PM, is completely arrogant. Offcourse if you remember, even after this there was a attempt on him during one of his rallies in Bihar. Bottomline is, in case of Ishrat, victims are those policemen and court has recognized that. PS: I hope these policemen sue Congress and Manmohan Singh, SIT incharge, for ruining there life and career. But most of them are retired now and probably have no willingness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Appreciate where you are coming from. Even if there was a altercation or any sort, Then too it wasnt justifiable. Infact any such cold blooded murder arent justifiable even if deceased was career criminal. In this case it was a crime committed by policemen and rightly court punished them all. But to relate it with Ishrat Jehangir case where there is overwhelming evidence that shooting was done in the line of duty and perpetrators were terrorists planning assassination attempt on would be PM, is completely arrogant. Offcourse if you remember, even after this there was a attempt on him during one of his rallies in Bihar. Bottomline is, in case of Ishrat, victims are those policemen and court has recognized that. PS: I hope these policemen sue Congress and Manmohan Singh, SIT incharge, for ruining there life and career. But most of them are retired now and probably have no willingness. Not justifying, just trying to give a logical explanation of the event. And you are right relating two different cases is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 so whats the truth now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda-esque Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 so whats the truth now??AAPTARDS and khangressis will stay away now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 AAPTARDS and khangressis will stay away nowhttps://twitter.com/sagarikaghoseI don't think so, How is calling Afzal Guru / Ishrat a Martyr ..a freedom of speech issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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