Dhoni keeps his end-over promise

[Fontaine]

I am not trying to put down Dhoni....But we are going overboard with this hype......Yuvraj is leagues ahead of Dhoni as a finisher and the fact is he can play/destroy better attacks too......Apart from Lanka I havent seen Dhoni do anything of note against other teams as a "finisher".....As I said show me the proof. He is definetely Top 5 Indian ODI batsman and the best WK-Bat from India(statistically) ever that's as far as his praise should go

He finished and destroyed Pakistan in a tour there when he was still a young batsmen. Musharraf in the post match started making some dumbass comments about Dhoni's long hair. A few series later did it against Bangla when wickets were tumbling around him and he also moved up the order. Did it to Pak again in '08 tour in India, followed up by doing it to England when they toured in '08/09 then the next series in West Indies and so on and so on. That's just a few of the matches where we won chasing and Dhoni finished up not out. The only proof that needs to be shown here is how much of a dumbass post you just made and it's been proven conclusively to be so.

[Old guy]

I guess I did overrate Hussey going by my impression of watching him bat and the fact that he looks more secure than Dhoni and still has the ability to unfurl the big shots' date=' but numbers and matches don't seem to back up my impression. So fair enough, that Hussey doesn't deserve to be in my list of batsmen clearly better than Dhoni.[/quote'] i totally get what ur saying but that is why dhoni is considered such a freak.. :cantstop: if it was top order spot lets say number 4 hussey wins hands down he is proper batsman who can do that role better and also i think u overrate him cos of his test heroics .. in odis hussey had a great start finished some matches like bevan too but he has not been that consistent overall ... and at role of finishing technique does not matter that much imo with ball being older and main bowlers at end instead of bowling those wicket taking balls defending the score its different game and u need different skills . hussey is easily is more complete batsman but dhoni had done his role much better than anyone else and in this is theo nly thing which counts :winky:

[Fontaine]

All rule and playing condition changes have favored the batsmen since Richards' time. Anyhow, for me Dhoni would struggle to make the top 10 ODI batsmen ever, so we are not even in the same ballpark here.

This is dumbest thing I've read in a long time. In the first sentence you're making it clear that because of rule changes/conditions modern batsmen have been favored. Yet in 2nd sentence you talk about listing a top 10 ODI batsmen list even with all those rule changes/conditions etc. So what how do you even begin compiling a top 10 list with that much descrepency/changes in the rules/conditions not to mention better protection etc etc. Congrats, you're the first person in a long time that trolled his own post.

[Fontaine]

Also DHoni hitting 15+ runs against STeyn in IPL is different from him pulling the stunt against him say in Durban even in a T20I game leave alone test match. Forget Durban I bet in an international game of any relevance whatever format it may be,I will bet $500 -real money if Dhoni can pull that off against Steyn....Book mark this and PM me when it happens....Dead seriousl I will pay up

Stupid much? Now pay up: 48.1 Steyn to Dhoni, no run, full and wide, reaches to dab that wide of point, misses 48.2 Steyn to Dhoni, SIX, that's disappeared into the crowd, full toss for the umpteenth time by Steyn who swings that into the stands over deep midwicket, all power there 48.3 Steyn to Dhoni, no run, short and wide, reaches to play the upper cut, misses, not called a wide, marginal call there 48.4 Steyn to Dhoni, FOUR, four more, short on middle and leg and he pulls it away, it goes off the glove past the keeper to the fine-leg boundary 48.5 Steyn to Dhoni, SIX, six more, Dhoni reaches his fifty in style, bludgeons that mercilessly into the crowd, full and wide and he crashes the poor thing over long-off 48.6 Steyn to Dhoni, 1 run, Dhoni keeps the strike for the last over, his partner's on 199, drilled down the ground to long-off for a single http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvrsa2010/engine/match/441828.html?innings=1;view=commentary

[The Outsider]

This is dumbest thing I've read in a long time. In the first sentence you're making it clear that because of rule changes/conditions modern batsmen have been favored. Yet in 2nd sentence you talk about listing a top 10 ODI batsmen list even with all those rule changes/conditions etc. So what how do you even begin compiling a top 10 list with that much descrepency/changes in the rules/conditions not to mention better protection etc etc. Congrats, you're the first person in a long time that trolled his own post.

Maybe, changes in playing conditions leave you confused about who is better between Richards and Imran Farhat. Thankfully, they don't have the same effect on me.

[maniac]

He finished and destroyed Pakistan in a tour there when he was still a young batsmen. Musharraf in the post match started making some dumbass comments about Dhoni's long hair. A few series later did it against Bangla when wickets were tumbling around him and he also moved up the order. Did it to Pak again in '08 tour in India, followed up by doing it to England when they toured in '08/09 then the next series in West Indies and so on and so on. That's just a few of the matches where we won chasing and Dhoni finished up not out. The only proof that needs to be shown here is how much of a dumbass post you just made and it's been proven conclusively to be so.

I beleive that was the same series where Dhoni and Yuvraj destroyed Pak for fun but yeah lets rate him on pitches were Boom Boom Lala got a 100 in one of the test matches but back to ODI's,Did you even see those pitches? And Bangladesh doesn't count Anyways just troliing you on the above :icflove: but where did I deny Dhoni was already a ODI great...I am taking objection to calling him the GOAT because he is not the outright top ODI batsmen,not the top finisher,not the top wk-batsman or the top No 5-6 batsman of all time.....Comes up 2nd or 3rd best in most categories. On a Bouncy pitch or swing and seam conditions,I will take Hussey over him by a mile... But on a flat track or Spin mine-field I will consider Dhoni but the difference here is not the same.

[Fontaine]

Maybe' date=' changes in playing conditions leave you confused about who is better between Richards and Imran Farhat. Thankfully, they don't have the same effect on me.[/quote'] Great, take an extreme position to compare two vastly different players make your point. Par for the course for you to change the argument. The point still is you put yourself in the position to evaluate the talent for a top 10 all time list even with the conditions/rules etc changing and someone already showed how wrong you were on Hussey. Some of us just realise how stupid it is for people who've never bowled or batted a single delivery in international cricket to even begin judging talent spanning decades. For you apparently it's no big deal. Hack.

[The Outsider]

Great' date=' take an extreme position to [b']compare two vastly different players make your point. Par for the course for you to change the argument. The point still is you put yourself in the position to evaluate the talent for a top 10 all time list even with the conditions/rules etc changing and someone already showed how wrong you were on Hussey. Some of us just realise how stupid it is for people who've never bowled or batted a single delivery in international cricket to even begin judging talent spanning decades. For you apparently it's no big deal. Hack.

And that is my point. Richards, Jones, Miandad, Crowe were distinctly better than Dhoni that I can make the transition among the different conditions. I did not rate Bevan, DeSilva or Haynes clearly ahead of Dhoni because they are in the same league, played in different eras and conditions so it's not clear who is better among them. I gladly admitted I overrated Hussey based on my impression when arguments to counter it were given. If you can make similar convincing arguments for Richards, Jones etc. being inferior to Dhoni, I won't have a problem conceding the point.

[vvvslaxman]

I beleive that was the same series where Dhoni and Yuvraj destroyed Pak for fun but yeah lets rate him on pitches were Boom Boom Lala got a 100 in one of the test matches but back to ODI's,Did you even see those pitches? And Bangladesh doesn't count Anyways just troliing you on the above :icflove: but where did I deny Dhoni was already a ODI great...I am taking objection to calling him the GOAT because he is not the outright top ODI batsmen,not the top finisher,not the top wk-batsman or the top No 5-6 batsman of all time.....Comes up 2nd or 3rd best in most categories. On a Bouncy pitch or swing and seam conditions,I will take Hussey over him by a mile... But on a flat track or Spin mine-field I will consider Dhoni but the difference here is not the same.

20 runs required in the last over.. who would you pick :winky: I am pretty sure Russell Arnold will pick Dhoni. so will perennial India hater Nasser hussain and scores of other experts in world cricket. They won't pick Gayle or Kallis or Amla despite them being world class batsmen. We are missing the main point. We keep bringing the same old argument of bouncy, turning, sleeping, dancing wicket into the discussion? :cantstop:

[Manny_Pacquiao]

fontaine, whats your top 10?

[The Outsider]

fontaine' date=' whats your top 10?[/quote'] What's yours if we temporarily ignore the all time ODI XI you put up in the other thread?

[flamy]

Also DHoni hitting 15+ runs against STeyn in IPL is different from him pulling the stunt against him say in Durban even in a T20I game leave alone test match. Forget Durban I bet in an international game of any relevance whatever format it may be,I will bet $500 -real money if Dhoni can pull that off against Steyn....Book mark this and PM me when it happens....Dead seriousl I will pay up

:woot:

[Ram]

Off the top of my head - Richards' date=' Tendulkar, Ponting, Dean Jones, Gilchrist, Miandad, Hussey, Crowe would be clearly ahead of Dhoni and then little to choose between Dhoni, Bevan, Ganguly, Lara, DeSilva, Haynes, Azhar.[/quote'] Dean Jones? Gilchrist? Hussey? Crowe? #BogglesMyMind

[Manny_Pacquiao]

What's yours if we temporarily ignore the all time ODI XI you put up in the other thread?

i'll stick to the guys i have seen, so...in no particular order tendulkar, gilchrist, dhoni, ponting, lara, ganguly, bevan, symonds, ganguly, jayasuriya, kohli. i just thought of all the best one day innings i have seen, and this is the list i ended up with. i have no issues putting kohli in there, he is unbelievably good in chases and already has 8 second innings hundreds. for comparison's sake, tendulkar - 450+ games - has 17 (and a bunch of 90s, but whos counting) and ponting (350+ games) also has 8. you will eventually call him an all-time odi batting great, so i'm just catching this bus a little earlier than everyone else. a guy that i wanted to put in there was aravinda de silva. for his 100 in the world cup final, the 67 that killed us in the semi, the 100 against india chasing under lights after tendulkar-ganguly's world record opening partnership, that outrageous 90 against australia in the 2003 world cup. class player, but with [slightly] weaker numbers so he just misses out. jayasuriya is an easy and obvious pick as an indian fan. too many knocks to mention. sri lanka lost whatever little psychological boost they had against india after he retired. sanga and jayawardene are highly skilful batsmen but they don't scare the **** out of u like this guy did. he also had some great innings against other teams, including the fastest ever fifty. another batsman i really respected was saeed anwar. but i dont remember any great chases by this guy, apart from a 100 against india at sharjah, an innings i didnt see but only watched highlights of on ten sports. very classy batsman. i also remember ridiculing him for his awful ODI record against AUS/SA, so i can't pick him in my top 10. i also rate rahul dravid very highly as a one day batsman. he was easily one of the best in the world from 2002 onwards and i will laugh at anyone that calls him one-paced or defensive because its just not true. cant pick everyone tho, but its an honorable mention. another is yuvraj... i probably forgot some obvious name which i'll end up remembering later, but thats it for now edit. i just realised thats 11, not 10. whatever. jayasuriya can piss off, i will keep kohli in there :isalute:

[Manny_Pacquiao]

Dean Jones? Gilchrist? Hussey? Crowe? #BogglesMyMind

gilchrist is such an easy pick. terrifying batsman, big match player.

[The Outsider]

i'll stick to the guys i have seen, so...in no particular order tendulkar, gilchrist, dhoni, ponting, lara, ganguly, bevan, symonds, ganguly, jayasuriya, kohli. i just thought of all the best one day innings i have seen, and this is the list i ended up with. i have no issues putting kohli in there, he is unbelievably good in chases and already has 8 second innings hundreds. for comparison's sake, tendulkar - 450+ games - has 17 (and a bunch of 90s, but whos counting) and ponting (350+ games) also has 8. you will eventually call him an all-time odi batting great, so i'm just catching this bus a little earlier than everyone else. a guy that i wanted to put in there was aravinda de silva. for his 100 in the world cup final, the 67 that killed us in the semi, the 100 against india chasing under lights after tendulkar-ganguly's world record opening partnership, that outrageous 90 against australia in the 2003 world cup. class player, but with [slightly] weaker numbers so he just misses out. jayasuriya is an easy and obvious pick as an indian fan. too many knocks to mention. sri lanka lost whatever little psychological boost they had against india after he retired. sanga and jayawardene are highly skilful batsmen but they don't scare the **** out of u like this guy did. he also had some great innings against other teams, including the fastest ever fifty. another batsman i really respected was saeed anwar. but i dont remember any great chases by this guy, apart from a 100 against india at sharjah, an innings i didnt see but only watched highlights of on ten sports. very classy batsman. i also remember ridiculing him for his awful ODI record against AUS/SA, so i can't pick him in my top 10. i also rate rahul dravid very highly as a one day batsman. he was easily one of the best in the world from 2002 onwards and i will laugh at anyone that calls him one-paced or defensive because its just not true. cant pick everyone tho, but its an honorable mention. another is yuvraj... i probably forgot some obvious name which i'll end up remembering later, but thats it for now

That's an excellent list assuming you are picking players starting from the 90s. I don't have any qualms about including Kohli in there now, because like you I think he will get there after another 100-150 ODIs. The guy is phenomenal while chasing down targets, where he doubles up as a top order batsman and a finisher more often than most top order batsmen. His record is a bit lopsided towards Sri Lanka, but I am pretty sure he'll rectify it over the next 3-4 years. I would choose DeSilva over Jayasuriya without a thought, though. I think that's one selection on which I differ decisively from your choice. Yeah, Jayasuriya really had a party against the Indian attack and was revolutionary in way - in a way because Greatbatch had done it earlier - DeSilva was a much more complete batsman and as you mentioned the consecutive Man of the Match performances in the '96 WC are the undoubted highlight. Anwar, Dravid, and Yuvraj are also very good picks - I might be tempted to replace Symonds with Yuvraj in your list.

[Chalks]

Still not recovered from Dhoni's pwning of the SRH bowling powerhouse in death overs :cantstop:

FTFY. :winky:

[The Outsider]

Dean Jones? Gilchrist? Hussey? Crowe? #BogglesMyMind

I've conceded my point on Hussey. Gilchrist - a terrifying presence at the top of the order. Even when he scored a quickfire 20 odd, he left the bowling attack in disarray like Sehwag, except that he could do it on more varied pitches than Sehwag. The entire Australian team fed on Gilchrist's starts during their era of domination. Dean Jones - one of the architects of the modern ODI game. The risk free quick running of singles, the ability to clear the in field when required. Very seldom was he beaten in the ODI game did he get out without trying to force the pace. Anchor of the Australian team for years. Crowe - A bit like Jones, but with the added ability to really take on the bowling when required. A bit unfortunate to play for a weak side like New Zealand. Carried the team in their '92 WC dream run, which ended when he was forced to retire hurt in the semi final against Pakistan. Used to be a master of manipulating the field, much like Dhoni, but could also take on some really quality fast bowlers, the level of whom Dhoni has not faced except Steyn.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

I might be tempted to replace Symonds with Yuvraj in your list.

yuvi is one of my favorites, but i think he underachieved a bit. sure, he had a solid one day career but he could have had better numbers. thats his own fault though, his fitness got progressively worse as his career went on and he became a bit of a moody slob. symonds was an odi batting stud. remember this is the guy that replaced steve waugh in the aussie XI before the world cup. i'd pick him just for that outrageous 143 against pakistan. they were 4 down for nothing, then lost 5 and this guy averaging 20 something walks in and plays an unbelievable innings against a pretty well decorated bowling attack. waqar was bowling BEAMERS at him. he was hitting some of the best death bowlers of all time for sixes down the ground, what a freak. its EASILY one of the top 5 innings i have ever seen. honestly, i felt symonds was the one guy that could put any given delivery into the stands. like he was just flicking a switch...i have never seen a guy hit sixes more effortlessly. he would just back away and swing...boom, cya later. effortless. the bat looked like a twig in his hands he was an absolute monster against us in the 2007 odi series as well. didn't have a clue how to get him out until the mumbai crowd/harbhajan singh got into his head in the final game. :isalute: :isalute:

[Manny_Pacquiao]

some highlights from that match: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVULXTHH_RQ]AUSTRALIA vs PAKISTAN, 2003 WORLD CUP POOL MATCH - YouTube[/ame] for about an hour and a half, pakistan looked like they could win the world cup.