The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 What I meant was, the promised actions aren't taken quicky as it passes many levels in democracy. The battalion stationed there will be very furious and frustrated now. The families might want to avenge the loss. But that ain't gonna happen. I also have a huge respect for the patience and hope that the soldiers have. A simple drill should be carried in a regular basis to warn the enemies. Who knows, the cost of the drills might also be eaten by politicians. After the parliament attack, there was a huge troop mobilization - warlike. What did it achieve? Did Pakistan hand over any terrorists? Did they take any internal action? Did the attacks stop or reduce? Nothing. Pakistan knows it holds the nuclear trump card. The only way to deal with them is by securing our borders, covert operations, and diplomatic pressure. RAW is too defunct to carry out covert operations and our governments don't know the D of diplomatic pressure, so that just leaves securing our borders and hoping for the best.
Malcolm Merlyn Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Perhaps you don't care because you live in Tamil Nadu' date=' but my parents live well within the range of Pakistan's nuclear missiles.[/quote'] Pakistan doesnt have the diplomatic strength to carry out a nuclear attack.Any such attack will mean existential threat to Pakistan itself. Pakistan's own admission is that their missiles are not full proof and have problems in their guidance systems. Even in 1999 when there was such huge tension regarding nuclear war,Mussharaff admitted that Pakistan's muclear arsenal was not even operationalised. So we must fear Pakistan and let them do what ever they want because they have a few HEU bombs while we are to be messed with our civilians and army men killed and we sit back and watch our Thermo Nuclear devices in a showcase. India last year announced that its no first use policy doesnt apply on Pakistan.About time we hit them and hit them hard.Fire across the LOC,Do just what they did.
Detonator Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 After the parliament attack' date=' there was a huge troop mobilization - warlike. What did it achieve? Did Pakistan hand over any terrorists? Did they take any internal action? Did the attacks stop or reduce? Nothing. Pakistan knows it holds the nuclear trump card. The only way to deal with them is by securing our borders, covert operations, and diplomatic pressure. RAW is too defunct to carry out covert operations and our governments don't know the D of diplomatic pressure, so that just leaves securing our borders and hoping for the best.[/quote'] Sadly true. It's very confusing to decide whether RAW is useless or our democary andgovt is crippling them with no support. Securing our borders need medium alertness. Conducting regular drills is the only option to generate the alertness. Also, the soldiers should be equipped better. If the enemy infiltrates and kills few of our men, then there should be proper training and equipment to catch them all or kill them all who has stepped on out border. The problems are bigger than I thought.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Pakistan doesnt have the diplomatic strength to carry out a nuclear attack.Any such attack will mean existential threat to Pakistan itself. Pakistan's own admission is that their missiles are not full proof and have problems in their guidance systems. Even in 1999 when there was such huge tension regarding nuclear war,Mussharaff admitted that Pakistan's muclear arsenal was not even operationalised. Even if you have taken inoculations against rabies, you don't go around kicking a rabid dog. I agree the chances of Pakistan using the nuclear option are very little, but you don't go around hedging such a catastrophe based on probabilities.
Malcolm Merlyn Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Even if you have taken inoculations against rabies' date=' you don't go around kicking a rabid dog. I agree the chances of Pakistan using the nuclear option are very little, but you don't go around hedging such a catastrophe based on probabilities.[/quote'] So i should sit at my home watch the rabid dog roam around and not go out for the fear of being bitten. What are we as a country?One of the largest armies one of the biggest defence budgets.We buy billions of dollars of high tech war machines and then sit at home and do nothing. Better,just sign away our freedom to USA in return fir safety gurantees.Atleast people wont lose lives. If this is what we have become we were better before 1947.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 So i should sit at my home watch the rabid dog roam around and not go out for the fear of being bitten. Not at all. 1. Revamp RAW. Take out high profile targets like Sayeed. 2. Make heavy investments in securing our border. 3. Use diplomatic pressure. Start with cutting off all trade and visas, except diplomatic.
South_Paw Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Perhaps you don't care because you live in Tamil Nadu' date=' but my parents live well within the range of Pakistan's nuclear missiles.[/quote'] Then better evacuvate them. Tamil Nadu is we'll within the range of Chinese base in Sri Lanka but none here are ready to put a *** smile on the face after getting hit in the balls by the opponent.
BeautifulGame Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Dont we also have Nuclear weapons? Did it hinder Pakistan from covertly and cowardly killing our Jawans.No one is asking for full scale war which risk nuclear war.But it shouldnt be beyond our capabilities to retaliate strongly and to target some of their bases along the border and inflict damage. To show them we dont take any **** in the future.Rather than these diplomatic posturings will only bolden Pakistan to increase cross border terrorism
Detonator Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Then better evacuvate them. Tamil Nadu is we'll within the range of Chinese base in Sri Lanka but none here are ready to put a *** smile on the face after getting hit in the balls by the opponent. Yep, I was abt to say this. Then realized its a waste of time explaining it.
Sarkar Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 About time India retaliate and attack their army khoon ka badla khoon
Clarke Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 It's not so straightforward. Yeah, one can pull off an odd incident like that. But in the long run it just jeopardizes the safety of thousands of fishermen, who ply the Arabian Sea. If RAW had not been terminally disabled by successive governments after the '71 war, that would have been the ideal way to go. Right now, we can't even take out Hafeez Sayeed who roams the streets of Pakistan openly, forget about someone like Dawood who at least hides. All RAW is good for is giving a nice story line to Bollywood movies. Who said it was a walk in the park ? The whole point of those actions is stating you're the predominant power and won't take any more nonsense. If they touch our fishermen, we will again respond in kind. What's the alternative, accept Hizbul Mujahideen as a legitimate organization ? The tiny nation we talked about earlier had to bear thousand plus sacrifices of its soldiers in both Arab-Israeli wars and here we are, scared of what Pakistan might do if we answer in kind. Lets just plant white flags on the border and beg them not to hurt us. The intelligence agency & its well established covert network is a long term process, a decade or longer of effort. We will need to act before that.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Who said it was a walk in the park ? The whole point of those actions is stating you're the predominant power and won't take any more nonsense. If they touch our fishermen, we will again respond in kind. What's the alternative, accept Hizbul Mujahideen as a legitimate organization ? Have we even tried forceful diplomacy to rule it out as an option, since covert operations as you say later in your post and I agree will take at least 10 years to give meaningful results? How about cutting off all trade and non diplomatic visas as a start? The tiny nation we talked about earlier had to bear thousand plus sacrifices of its soldiers in both Arab-Israeli wars and here we are, scared of what Pakistan might do if we answer in kind. Lets just plant white flags on the border and beg them not to hurt us. The tiny nation and also the big nation supporting it are hesitant to do anything against Iran. Why? They don't even share a border with Iran and Iran does not even have any demonstrated nuclear abilities. The intelligence agency & its well established covert network is a long term process, a decade or longer of effort. We will need to act before that. Agree.
Clarke Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Have we even tried forceful diplomacy to rule it out as an option, since covert operations as you say later in your post and I agree will take at least 10 years to give meaningful results? How about cutting off all trade and non diplomatic visas as a start? We did that to some extent a year or two after 26/11. It is actually expected that if we are to target them, we would have to cut off all relations. The latter by itself will not achieve anything. The tiny nation and also the big nation supporting it are hesitant to do anything against Iran. Why? They don't even share a border with Iran and Iran does not even have any demonstrated nuclear abilities. They are not hesitant at all. It's a matter of when and not if. Besides the sanctions, they have had a covert war all along with scientists being killed and critical computers being infected and whatever else occuring by chance. The bigger nation has explicitly said they will not accept a nuclear Iran, so lets not claim they are hesitant of the military option. What you could argue is how North Korea went nuclear despite big daddy's warnings, and that's because it is China's attack dog in the region. We need to figure that in our calculations if we're looking at a conflict with Pakistan.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 We did that to some extent a year or two after 26/11. It is actually expected that if we are to target them, we would have to cut off all relations. The latter by itself will not achieve anything. How do we know it won't achieve anything without trying it? There was no trade embargo after 26/11. There was no declaration of not granting of visas. And these are benign steps - there are many more diplomatic options available culminating with shutting down our consulates in Pakistan and shutting down theirs in India. They are not hesitant at all. It's a matter of when and not if. Besides the sanctions, they have had a covert war all along with scientists being killed and critical computers being infected and whatever else occuring by chance. The bigger nation has explicitly said they will not accept a nuclear Iran, so lets not claim they are hesitant of the military option. Exactly my point. They are not rushing into a military action primarily because of the nuclear threat, even when they don't border them. Have we tried any covert operations? Have we taken out Sayeed? Have we infected their critical computers? Have we exhausted these options before embarking on any military action? What you could argue is how North Korea went nuclear despite big daddy's warnings, and that's because it is China's attack dog in the region. We need to figure that in our calculations if we're looking at a conflict with Pakistan. Despite the slight souring of Pakistan-China relations recently and the history of China to stay out of India-Pakistan conflicts, China's role cannot be ruled out. If not an attack, even a troop build up by China is going to be a major diversion for India. And while China maybe one part of the North Korean equation, an important part is the presence of South Korea at it's border. Unless it becomes absolutely necessary, the bigger nation will not risk North exploding a nuclear weapon on the South.
Crookbond Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 We did that to some extent a year or two after 26/11. It is actually expected that if we are to target them, we would have to cut off all relations. The latter by itself will not achieve anything. How do we know it won't achieve anything without trying it? There was no trade embargo after 26/11. There was no declaration of not granting of visas. And these are benign steps - there are many more diplomatic options available culminating with shutting down our consulates in Pakistan and shutting down theirs in India. . The export trade data shows that there was a 40.5% growth of exports from India to Pakistan from 2009-10 to 2010-11.
Clarke Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 How do we know it won't achieve anything without trying it? There was no trade embargo after 26/11. There was no declaration of not granting of visas. And these are benign steps - there are many more diplomatic options available culminating with shutting down our consulates in Pakistan and shutting down theirs in India. What on earth makes you think these steps would work ? Why would their establishment give a damn about Indian trade and visas ? They will simply increase the rhetoric on the streets of Lahore & Islamabad claiming the baniyas have once again shown their hostile intentions. Exactly my point. They are not rushing into a military action primarily because of the nuclear threat, even when they don't border them. Have we tried any covert operations? Have we taken out Sayeed? Have we infected their critical computers? Have we exhausted these options before embarking on any military action? We would if we could, at least from what I know our covert warfare capabilities are very limited while our conventional forces although requiring newer hardware possess the means to deliver a message. I'd be glad to be proven wrong.
carnish Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Among all this chaos, a beautiful news coming out: Pak to host Indian blind cricket team in February 2014 http://www.vcricket.com/cricket-news/pak-to-host-indian-blind-cricket-team-in-february-2014-42541.html If this goes ahead, It can be concluded that Indian officials lack balls. :facepalm:
Sachin=GOD Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Among all this chaos' date=' a beautiful news coming out: [b']Pak to host Indian blind cricket team in February 2014 http://www.vcricket.com/cricket-news/pak-to-host-indian-blind-cricket-team-in-february-2014-42541.html If this goes ahead, It can be concluded that Indian officials lack balls. :facepalm: you still have any doubts about that?
carnish Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 you still have any doubts about that? I mean, aren't our blind cricketers citizens too?? why send them to a country where no international team wants to go. Forget playing them in India, they are scheduling it in Islamabad :banghead:
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