Muzaffarnagar clashes: death toll rises to 12, Army called in

[10DuLKaR]

Diga? Do you have a link? This is unbelievable. 45 ak47 sieged. Who were possessing them? Whats happening in this country? mango people who are peaceful possessing so many guns? For what? Are they planning to kill 1000s??? I think more intelligence need to be gathered and search every house, office, temple and what not. If 47 found then there could be 100s of these in that area. Where do these guys get them from? :wall: ak47

45 live AK47 bullets, not the rifle itself. No rifle was found. BTW schools/colleges etc. here were closed for last 3 days, they opened today, but just now news came that they will remain closed again tomorrow. Maybe **** got serious again.

[diga]

Diga? Do you have a link?

That was a tweet from Timesnow..

[dial_100]

^ ok thanks mate. But isnt this serious matter. What heck man.. Prashasan kya kar raha hai.. AK47 is not a joke. Find those idiots who are possessing these weapons and punish them. Doesnt matter Hindu, Muslim, Sickh or Issai. Congressi, Samaj Wadi, Chaddi dhari or topi dhari.. Sab ko pakdo aur put them in the jail for rest of their lives. Sala Laaa n Aarder ka mazaak bana ke rakha hai sassorone. And someone pls find some link to Modi :giggle: for gods sake so that we can nail him...

[Laaloo]

^ ok thanks mate. But isnt this serious matter. What heck man.. Prashasan kya kar raha hai.. AK47 is not a joke. Find those idiots who are possessing these weapons and punish them. Doesnt matter Hindu, Muslim, Sickh or Issai. Congressi, Samaj Wadi, Chaddi dhari or topi dhari.. Sab ko pakdo aur put them in the jail for rest of their lives. Sala Laaa n Aarder ka mazaak bana ke rakha hai sassorone. And someone pls find some link to Modi :giggle: for gods sake so that we can nail him...

A source has told me that someone on the 'outside' is working hard on it. thoda sabr karo :om:

[dial_100]

Kitana Sabr karen yaar. Chaar din see pet ko dana nassib nahi hua.. abhi tak tum log ek link nahi laa payee.. Kaan tarras gaye news sunne ke waste.. haha.. on a serious note, I hope MSY, takes serious actions against all the people involved. They should shop worrying about bjp alone and look to get to the root of this. These riots and killings are going on for a while. Happened in 10-12 years ago doesnt mean we should compare everything with it. This has turned into uglier than we imagined. I heard nearly 40 dead now.. RIP

[The Outsider]

HISS(Head in Sand Syndrome) on full display. For months, political analysts on the ground and locals in UP have been saying that there is mass scale polarization going on by the BJP and SP, specially since Shah was moved there. Riots like this were predicted as a result of this polarization, but no Modi doesn't have anything to do with it.

[veer]

I think Obama has his hands in UP polarization too.. It's been all over the media.. just that i dont have any clip to prove it. I am still looking for it though..

[diga]

HISS(Head in Sand Syndrome) on full display. For months, political analysts on the ground and locals in UP have been saying that there is mass scale polarization going on by the BJP and SP, specially since Shah was moved there. Riots like this were predicted as a result of this polarization, but no Modi doesn't have anything to do with it.

Nobody is denying the polarization in UP or rest of the country... but wasnt these clashes a result of some other incidents like the eveteasing/molestation/rape in Muzaffarnagar alone for the last 6-8 months? Was Modi/Shah the catalyst? maybe Were they the spark that ignited the fire? No

[The Outsider]

Nobody is denying the polarization in UP or rest of the country... but wasnt these clashes a result of some other incidents like the eveteasing/molestation/rape in Muzaffarnagar alone for the last 6-8 months?

The spark for most riots is not the leader in question ranting communal slogans. The groundwork is done for months beforehand - in this case by SP and BJP - and then wait and turn some incident like what happened in Muzaffarnagar, into a communal hue and sit back and watch the tamasha. You think Hindu/Muslim guys were never eveteasing Muslim/Hindu girls before Muzaffarnagar or are still not doing in hazaar other places? A guy like Jinnah, never stepped outside in the realms of the masses but was able to influence some of the largest riots seen in Indian history. Let's have a poll - we can discuss it's exact wordings, how about "Is Modi directly responsible for the polarization in UP?" and see how many on ICF vote "yes" on it.

Was Modi/Shah the catalyst? maybe Were they the spark that ignited the fire? No

Maybe? Chalo, No se maybe tak to pahunche. And nowhere have I claimed that they ignited the fire, but the fact remains that without a catalyst any chemical reaction will not happen or will fizzle out after a bit of fireworks, not turn into a raging fire.

[CG]

Muslim leaders from Congress, BSP and SP shared dais on August 30 and one of them delivered a hate speech. The BJP leader on the very next day (August 31) was seen addressing a mass gathering and delivered a hate speech. EFY9NSdxdsk&feature=player_detailpage This is sick both sides are to blame.Politicians have again and again used the same trick and people do not learn.Govt in power does nothing as it benefits from religious disharmony.Sp govt is one of the worst govts in india ,people would take mayawati with all her corruption over this .

[seedhi]

The spark for most riots is not the leader in question ranting communal slogans. The groundwork is done for months beforehand - in this case by SP and BJP - and then wait and turn some incident like what happened in Muzaffarnagar' date=' into a communal hue and sit back and watch the tamasha. [b']You think Hindu/Muslim guys were never eveteasing Muslim/Hindu girls before Muzaffarnagar or are still not doing in hazaar other places? A guy like Jinnah, never stepped outside in the realms of the masses but was able to influence some of the largest riots seen in Indian history. Let's have a poll - we can discuss it's exact wordings, how about "Is Modi directly responsible for the polarization in UP?" and see how many on ICF vote "yes" on it. Maybe? Chalo, No se maybe tak to pahunche. And nowhere have I claimed that they ignited the fire, but the fact remains that without a catalyst any chemical reaction will not happen or will fizzle out after a bit of fireworks, not turn into a raging fire.

The difference here is the biased action of the police in not going after the criminals from one community. The situation was further vitiated when on 30th August the Muslim MP/MLAs/leaders from BSP, SP and Congress made provocative speeches with the DM and SP on the dias (who now claim to have been blackmailed!). The next day 31st August a speech was given by a Hindu leader from BJP in response. None of these people were arrested. The whole thing was setup by the administration from the beginning. The primary responsibility is that of the SP government and of course the situation created was exploited by people from BSP, Congress and BJP.

[randomGuy]

The difference here is the biased action of the police in not going after the criminals from one community. The situation was further vitiated when on 30th August the Muslim MP/MLAs/leaders from BSP' date=' SP and Congress made provocative speeches [i']with the DM and SP on the dias (who now claim to have been blackmailed!). The next day 31st August a speech was given by a Hindu leader from BJP in response. None of these people were arrested. The whole thing was setup by the administration from the beginning. The primary responsibility is that of the SP government and of course the situation created was exploited by people from BSP, Congress and BJP.

Well put. This is the essence of all the credible news on this subject imo.

[The Outsider]

The difference here is the biased action of the police in not going after the criminals from one community. The situation was further vitiated when on 30th August the Muslim MP/MLAs/leaders from BSP' date=' SP and Congress made provocative speeches [i']with the DM and SP on the dias (who now claim to have been blackmailed!). The next day 31st August a speech was given by a Hindu leader from BJP in response. None of these people were arrested. The whole thing was setup by the administration from the beginning. The primary responsibility is that of the SP government and of course the situation created was exploited by people from BSP, Congress and BJP.

Of course, the SP has been trying to polarize the Muslim vote ever since they assumed power - I've said so explicitly on many occasions. The gripe here is that Modi and Shah are not responsible - every neutral ground report since Shah assumed charge of UP has pointed to the communal polarization in progress. At the risk of repeating myself the umpteen time: 1. Can Modi become the PM without winning 35-50 seats from UP? No. 2. Can Modi win that number in UP without polarizing the electorate? No. Congress, BSP are fringe players in this game - I am not denying or condoning those leaders making those speeches, but from a party politics perspective it makes zero sense for BSP and Congress to polarize the electorate. They'll lose their Thakur/Brahmin and non-Yadav OBC votes respectively and gain nothing from Muslim votes. Having said all that, the dynamics might yet change after Azam Khan's stance and that of Muslim groups against SP. This was also evidenced by Mulayam's personal stance to curb the riots, rather than let them fester because he felt that he is actually losing support rather than consolidating the Muslim vote. This paragraph is still speculation, so don't hold me on it.

[rkt.india]

Of course' date=' the SP has been trying to polarize the Muslim vote ever since they assumed power - I've said so explicitly on many occasions. The gripe here is that Modi and Shah are not responsible - [b']every neutral ground report since Shah assumed charge of UP has pointed to the communal polarization in progress. At the risk of repeating myself the umpteen time: 1. Can Modi become the PM without winning 35-50 seats from UP? No. 2. Can Modi win that number in UP without polarizing the electorate? No. Congress, BSP are fringe players in this game - I am not denying or condoning those leaders making those speeches, but from a party politics perspective it makes zero sense for BSP and Congress to polarize the electorate. They'll lose their Thakur/Brahmin and non-Yadav OBC votes respectively and gain nothing from Muslim votes. Having said all that, the dynamics might yet change after Azam Khan's stance and that of Muslim groups against SP. This was also evidenced by Mulayam's personal stance to curb the riots, rather than let them fester because he felt that he is actually losing support rather than consolidating the Muslim vote. This paragraph is still speculation, so don't hold me on it.

Thing is once SP is trying everything to polarize voters, then Modi itself don't need to do that because that will eventually happen because of what SP is doing. I do think this polarization might rule out a hung parliament as UP plays an important part determining which party has the upper hand in general elections.

[The Outsider]

Thing is once SP is trying everything to polarize voters' date= then Modi itself don't need to do that because that will eventually happen because of what SP is doing.

1. Modi still needs to make sure that the Thakur/Brahmins/non-Yadav OBCs vote for him and not for BSP and Congress, as they have been voting for the last decade. 2. I hope you've seen the VHP's non seasonal yatra, read reports of from pretty much every neutral political analyst on the ground, and interacted with people in UP, who vouch on national TV that SP and BJP are trying to polarize the electorate. Sab jhooth hai?

I do think this polarization might rule out a hung parliament as UP plays an important part determining which party has the upper hand in general elections.

Haan. Kucch log mar gaye aur kitne refugee shelter mein raheinge for years, but parliament hung nahin hogi. :nice:

[diga]

The spark for most riots is not the leader in question ranting communal slogans. The groundwork is done for months beforehand - in this case by SP and BJP - and then wait and turn some incident like what happened in Muzaffarnagar, into a communal hue and sit back and watch the tamasha. You think Hindu/Muslim guys were never eveteasing Muslim/Hindu girls before Muzaffarnagar or are still not doing in hazaar other places? A guy like Jinnah, never stepped outside in the realms of the masses but was able to influence some of the largest riots seen in Indian history. Let's have a poll - we can discuss it's exact wordings, how about "Is Modi directly responsible for the polarization in UP?" and see how many on ICF vote "yes" on it. Maybe? Chalo, No se maybe tak to pahunche. And nowhere have I claimed that they ignited the fire, but the fact remains that without a catalyst any chemical reaction will not happen or will fizzle out after a bit of fireworks, not turn into a raging fire.

Boss, your stance in this thread has been that Modi/Shah have been the responsible persons for the riots..while the ground reality is that all parties are equally culpable

[rkt.india]

1. Modi still needs to make sure that the Thakur/Brahmins/non-Yadav OBCs vote for him and not for BSP and Congress, as they have been voting for the last decade. 2. I hope you've seen the VHP's non seasonal yatra, read reports of from pretty much every neutral political analyst on the ground, and interacted with people in UP, who vouch on national TV that SP and BJP are trying to polarize the electorate. Sab jhooth hai? Haan. Kucch log mar gaye aur kitne refugee shelter mein raheinge for years, but parliament hung nahin hogi. :nice:

I am not saying whatever happening is the best thing since sliced bread. We people of the country are as much to be blamed as the political parties because people have their own wisdom too and it is them themselves who indulged in these things. Those politician wont go on the streets carrying guns and kill people. No, they wont. They can only give speeches. Its a common man who will take everything to himself without giving an iota of thought to the effect and influence of it, either right or wrong and then when everything is over, we start blaming politicians that they provoked people, don't people have their own brains to use, and forget that whatever happened was done by us, not politicians. Who are killed, common men, who killed them, common men. What politicians did was just a part of their job. This is the inherent nature of the politics. Moral of the story is most of the people are immoral, not just politicians and all pay for that they did and are doing. Blaming politicians is not a solution. You blame and punish one, one more will stand up some other, do same thing, and same thing will happen again at some other place. Who actually is the problem, the real culprit is, we, the people of the country and I don't give a damn what happened to them.

[The Outsider]

Boss' date=' your stance in this thread has been that Modi/Shah have been the responsible persons for the riots..while the ground reality is that all parties are equally culpable[/quote'] Boss, in my 4th post in the thread - half of which were replies to other posts - I clearly mentioned SP as being responsible for the riots. I am yet to see another post, which says BJP was responsible for the riots. The closest I've seen is a "Maybe" from you. Other parties, no, it makes zero political sense for BSP and Congress to have these riots and polarization in UP. They'll happily do it in other scenarios, so I am not exonerating them on their principles, but on their convenience.

[rkt.india]

Other than that, these communal clashes started happening in UP since this govt. came to power and Shah has only been transported from Gujrarat now.

[veer]

Modi should steer clear from some of the BJP clowns.. Cong will drag him through lot of mud till next election cuz of others mistake ..