When will we learn-78mph bowlers have no impact at top level!

[King Tendulkar]

When will learn, seriously!!! Why in India do we get always seem to want to pick a 78mph bowler who bowls good line and length with swing and seam. Thinking this will be effective at top level in test cricket. The facts are at top level in Test cricket in particular, a 78mph bowlers will have little effect at top level. Yes with new ball they can be effective some times!!! But what about after that? The same ball is used for 80 overs. They can do ok(faster bowlers also can be effective with new ball, just to remind) with new ball but as soon as ball becomes 15 overs plus and stops swinging these guys are just bread and butter, often they are bread and butter with new ball as well against the best. So from 15/20 to 80th over the trundlers are just food and drink. Look at zak in last test. Bowling super accurate. Swinging it both ways with new ball, reversing both ways with old ball. Had it on a piece of a string. Why was he such a dud then? As everything he was doing was at 78mph. Irfan Pathan in test in pakistan with new ball. Took hatrick. After that was just cannon fodder with old ball. I have same fears for BK. Yes new ball may do ok sometimes. But after that will operate at about 79mph for rest of 80 overs. Will just be meat and drink and have no effect. We must pick 3 seamers with good pace who bowl in 83 to 87 mph range at bare minimum. Of course must have skills as well but those skills cant be at 78 mph. When will learn? We just dont seem to understand in India the step up to international cricket and the required higher level of pace needed.

[Pagalpanti]

Philander is ranked no.1

[King Tendulkar]

Philander is ranked no.1

Jeez when does philander bowl 78 mph? Just cos he is slower then other saffie seamers does not make him the pace of unadkunt He operates in low to mid 80s range.

[Muloghonto]

Jeez when does philander bowl 78 mph? Just cos he is slower then other saffie seamers does not make him the pace of unadkunt He operates in low to mid 80s range.

Philander often operates entire spells-including opening spells- at 78-80mph range. Yes, he can 'crank it' to 85mph at times but he is closer to Unadkat's pace than Ishant's. Also, your OP is incorrect. India does not have 'good medium pace trundlers with swing and accuracy', India has invariably produced two genuine fast bowlers who've made it at international level ( Kapil & Srinath) and rest all have been average (at best) medium pacers, with very mediocre accuracy & some swing. None of the Indian trundlers- i repeat, none of them- were capable of bowling at 78mph and hitting any dollar(Canadian) size coin on the pitch six balls in a row. There have been bowlers who've bowled at 78mph and not just succeeded but dominated. Philander often takes truckloads of wickets bowling at 78mph, pitching at the same spot and getting a 'wobble' to the ball. Mohammed Asif barely cracked 80mph even when he tried but could hit any spot on the pitch at will practically and swing the ball prodigiously. he destroyed sides. Curtly Ambrose, at the ripe old age of 36 or 37 failed to break 80mph against England, yet utterly & totally dominated them to end up with something ridiculous like 20+ wickets at 13 or 14 average. Trundling at 78mph can make you a world dominator. Trouble is, nothing is a 'magic bullet' of bowling success, unless you are Murali and can spin the ball a mile both ways and pitch it anywhere at will. Bowling is a complex art & slow or medium pace true greats are just as hard to find as true pace bowling greats. Speed can be handy. At times it can get you wickets but it is nowhere as important as your speed crusade has seemed like. We've seen plenty of bowlers who could bowl it lightning fast but never amounted to much more than mediocre or downright suck.

[jusarrived]

its just about finding good bowlers , whcih we lack ..fast or not .

[Vijy]

Philander operates mostly in the low 80s and the same also goes for Asif. I don't think their pace was in the high 70s. As for Ambrose, he was usually around 85+ mph, and his pace may have dipped by the end of his career, but by then he had accumulated other skills. A newbie, starting at 78 mph and not blessed with other skills will be thrashed to all parts of the ground.

[Lord]

in overseas conditions helpful for seamers they can be useful like PK was in WI and England.

[Marut]

Wasim Akram once said - Pace cannot be taught, but seam, swing and control can be taught. So pick the fastest bowlers available and teach them how to bowl correctly. Everything else remaining the same, speed is a an outright winner anyday. If you are starting from trundlers, there isn't a great bowling unit you are going to end with. Philander is successful because he is bowling along side genuine quicks - take out Steyn and Morkel, and Philander will be much less effective more often. If the first two bowlers of choice are trunders, there isn't much hope for the nation from the bowling department. The third/fourth seamer can be 80-85K bowlers - but first two must be able to crank it into high 80s and preferably at 90+, then only the team will have a formidable pace unit.

[div]

in overseas conditions helpful for seamers they can be useful like PK was in WI and England.

but English bowlers were quicker and better.

[rkt.india]

Philander is ranked no.1

How many Philanders in world cricket have we seen?

[div]

Philander is ranked no.1

In the last test series Morkel looked the most dangerous of the SA bowlers.

[Lord]

but English bowlers were quicker and better.

home conditions for them.also PK got no support

[tweaker]

All the skills with 78 mph speed will make the bowler very ordinary.but if the bowler has the same skills with speed of 85 mph,he will be very effective ie, B Kumar & Shami Ahmed

[DarthSimian]

Line and length/swing without pace is not useful at top level. Pace without line and length/swing is not useful at top level. There is nobody in India with both pace and line and length/swing. Ergo, go with what you have.

[Tendulkar_Bhai]

Shaun Tait/Umesh Yadav are good example of all pace but no brains. Its a nice theory in the OP, but in reality bowlers who are at 80-85MPH like ZAK (what short memories we have of what our 2nd greatest all time quick has done in the recent past!!) win games for teams bowling in the middle overs, you seem to assume that top batsman are troubled by speed when in fact its the movement/slower deliveries which gets the most wickets. Yes swinging it at 90MPH is ideal but there is only one Steyn in the world! Anderson when tearing through the Aussies in the last ashes and us in England did not do this bowling at full pace and as mentioned Asif was the same. PK as well in spells!

[vvvslaxman]

In the last test series Morkel looked the most dangerous of the SA bowlers.

Giraffe needs to be drug tested. This guy is inhumane. He runs in leisurely and without even silghtest of grimace hurling balls over 145k.

[saneindian]

Who is a 78 mph bowler? Perhaps PK was but even at that speed he did fairly well in England and WI. BK is more 81-82, Ishant at 84-85 when in good rhythm and 81-82 otherwise Looked at last last 6 home tests (4 vs Aus and 2 vs WI) for speeds of Oshant and BK (from CI hawkeye), number in brackets is the top speed in the innings by the bowler BK - 81 (88), 80 (85), 82 (87), 81 (86), 81 (84), 82 (85), 82 (83), 82 (86), 80 (84), 81 (85), 80 (82) Ishant - 83 (87), 81 (85), 82 (87), 81 (85), 82 (89), 81 (85), 82 (86), 83 (85) In SA as well, none of our bowlers bowled 78 mph :)

[nsareen]

I feel our problem has been the COACHES, have read numerous articles on how the coaches instill line and length to encourage the youngsters become the next Kapil Dev, it makes a huge difference!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lord]

Who is a 78 mph bowler? Perhaps PK was but even at that speed he did fairly well in England and WI. BK is more 81-82, Ishant at 84-85 when in good rhythm and 81-82 otherwise Looked at last last 6 home tests (4 vs Aus and 2 vs WI) for speeds of Oshant and BK (from CI hawkeye), number in brackets is the top speed in the innings by the bowler BK - 81 (88), 80 (85), 82 (87), 81 (86), 81 (84), 82 (85), 82 (83), 82 (86), 80 (84), 81 (85), 80 (82) Ishant - 83 (87), 81 (85), 82 (87), 81 (85), 82 (89), 81 (85), 82 (86), 83 (85) In SA as well, none of our bowlers bowled 78 mph :)

good post

[fineleg]

^ below 80, are specialties of Jai-Jayadeva Unadkat and Vennai koomar Prolly A.Mithun and S.Arvind too. The karnataka trio and porbandar.