So Virat Kohli is not a match-winner?

[CSK Fan]

My post is for posters like Jusarrived, who so succinctly claimed that Kohli was already much better than Sachin because he was a match winner and most of his innings led to wins. Ditto Dhoni Yeah, it is easy for scores to result in wins when other batsmen/bowlers show up. Otherwise your best efforts still lead to loses. There was nothing wrong with Kohli this series yet all of his good innings were in losing causes I know this is the least of our problems now but dammit, I wanted to make this point

[Scarves]

Generally the better batsmen in the world are match winners, that's why they are the better batsmen in the world.

[Number]

Rohit's good innings have come in big LOI series wins. CB series, World Cup 2007, Champions Trophy 2013. Kohli is a good accumulator who does well in low profile bi-laterals or no-purpose dead rubbers but in big series, I would take Rohit ahead of him.

[SLICKR392]

Rohit's good innings have come in big LOI series wins. CB series, World Cup 2007, Champions Trophy 2013. Kohli is a good accumulator who does well in low profile bi-laterals or no-purpose dead rubbers but in big series, I would take Rohit ahead of him.

Yeah right. Rohit did zilch in the CT final or the match against Pak where he only played a support role compared to Kohli's mammoth. In that case Gambhir is a bigger match winner. '07 WC, 2011 WC, Napier to point out a few.

[div]

Rohit's good innings have come in big LOI series wins. CB series, World Cup 2007, Champions Trophy 2013. Kohli is a good accumulator who does well in low profile bi-laterals or no-purpose dead rubbers but in big series, I would take Rohit ahead of him.

world T20,World cup, CT 2013...so Dhoni is better captain than Ganguly :cantstop:

[CSK Fan]

Generally the better batsmen in the world are match winners' date=' that's why they are the better batsmen in the world.[/quote'] Except the small fact that cricket is played by 11 players in a team and if pone single guy could win the match teams would have been able to play with 3-4 players in their start up When your bowling sucks your match winning ability automatically drops. When your other 5 batsmen suck, your match winning ability drops. Winning a match is a team goal in cricket and not a player goal It is really weird that even hard core fans do not understand this simple concept

[Lord]

judging individuals by team results is most idiotic thing to do

[Scarves]

Except the small fact that cricket is played by 11 players in a team and if pone single guy could win the match teams would have been able to play with 3-4 players in their start up When your bowling sucks your match winning ability automatically drops. When your other 5 batsmen suck, your match winning ability drops. Winning a match is a team goal in cricket and not a player goal It is really weird that even hard core fans do not understand this simple concept

But the better batsman generally score runs a lot, those runs lead to victories most of the time. Ponting is a good example because when he gets big scores and runs, Australia wins most of the time. Kohli scores big runs frequently which leads to more chances of India winning but then like you said about the bowling but that's not his fault and shouldn't be held against him like Tendulkar. Tendulkar had great knocks just that everyone else around him was craptacular. I think Kohli is a match winner, just that the rest minus Dhoni sucks.

[Lord]

But the better batsman generally score runs a lot' date=' those runs lead to victories most of the time. [b']Ponting is a good example because when he gets big scores and runs, Australia wins most of the time. Kohli scores big runs frequently which leads to more chances of India winning but then like you said about the bowling but that's not his fault and shouldn't be held against him like Tendulkar. Tendulkar had great knocks just that everyone else around him was craptacular. I think Kohli is a match winner, just that the rest minus Dhoni sucks.

do you think that'd be same if he had Ishant and Mishra instead of McGrath and Warne?

[Number]

But the better batsman generally score runs a lot, those runs lead to victories most of the time. Ponting is a good example because when he gets big scores and runs, Australia wins most of the time. Kohli scores big runs frequently which leads to more chances of India winning but then like you said about the bowling but that's not his fault and shouldn't be held against him like Tendulkar. Tendulkar had great knocks just that everyone else around him was craptacular. I think Kohli is a match winner, just that the rest minus Dhoni sucks.

Lara and Sachin were better batsmen than Ponting. Both didn't win as many matches as Ponting did. Ponting had an ATG team around him. When the legends left the team, he had some good knocks like 100 in Ahmedabad in WC QF in losing cause.

[Scarves]

do you think that'd be same if he had Ishant and Mishra instead of McGrath and Warne?

We will never know but Ponting's ODI peak is when Warne retired from ODI but he did what was in front of him and so did Kohli, Lara, Tendulkar and others.

[vvvslaxman]

It is hard to define match winning knocks. But back to the wall performances are remembered better. Laxman's 281, 103 are great examples. Gordon Greenidge's double century on one leg, Richards t61 in mandatory 20 overs of the final day . Someone who goes little further and pulls off a win. Dravid's 233 & 72 etc. Twin centuries against Pakistan. Virus 201 at Galle etc. Sachin's 155 was a great knock. But his 136 was even better. But India lost the test by 12 runs much like Sunny's 96 where India lost it by 17 runs.

[Number]

We will never know but Ponting's ODI peak is when Warne retired from ODI but he did what was in front of him and so did Kohli' date=' Lara, Tendulkar and others.[/quote'] Still had Brett Lee and McGrath. Brett Lee to me is the best ever bowler of ODI format. Mcgrath close 2nd. :--D

[saneindian]

Because the thread is talking of individuals, it took Sachin 19 years of international cricket to win a series in NZ. Give Virat at least one more visit :)

[Scarves]

It is hard to define match winning knocks. But back to the wall performances are remembered better. Laxman's 281' date=' 103 are great examples. Gordon Greenidge's double century on one leg, Richards t61 in mandatory 20 overs of the final day . Someone who goes little further and pulls off a win. Dravid's 233 & 72 etc. Twin centuries against Pakistan. Virus 201 at Galle etc. Sachin's 155 was a great knock. But his 136 was even better. But India lost the test by 12 runs much like Sunny's 96 where India lost it by 17 runs.[/quote'] Yeah but in ODI terms, a big score generally wins you games and the better batsmen generally get the big scores. Sometimes you'll get the massive knock like Ponting when South Africa chased 434 or Tendulkar in several cases. Kohli I think is one of those batsman where when he gets a big score, India generally will win. Granted Dhoni's captaincy and India's bowling doesn't help but this is also generalized as you'll get examples against this.

[CG]

Cricket is a team game.Its very rare an individual can win the match alone.Kohli is avery good idi player .

[rkt.india]

But the better batsman generally score runs a lot, those runs lead to victories most of the time. Ponting is a good example because when he gets big scores and runs, Australia wins most of the time. Kohli scores big runs frequently which leads to more chances of India winning but then like you said about the bowling but that's not his fault and shouldn't be held against him like Tendulkar. Tendulkar had great knocks just that everyone else around him was craptacular. I think Kohli is a match winner, just that the rest minus Dhoni sucks.

Australia had a great bowling attack to back that and don't forget openers, Hayden-Langer in tests and Hayden-Gilly in ODIs. No team would do well without good openers.

[cric_fan]

Idiotic thread. Do you expect him to take you guys over the line every match??

[Old guy]

nononono you are taking it wrong this series proves dhoni is no where near sachin :D

[CSK Fan]

But the better batsman generally score runs a lot, those runs lead to victories most of the time. Ponting is a good example because when he gets big scores and runs, Australia wins most of the time. Kohli scores big runs frequently which leads to more chances of India winning but then like you said about the bowling but that's not his fault and shouldn't be held against him like Tendulkar. Tendulkar had great knocks just that everyone else around him was craptacular. I think Kohli is a match winner, just that the rest minus Dhoni sucks.

But would you agree that a higher score made by a team with a better bowling attack is more likely to end on the winning side than the same score made by someone in a team with mediocre bowlers?

Yeah but in ODI terms, a big score generally wins you games and the better batsmen generally get the big scores. Sometimes you'll get the massive knock like Ponting when South Africa chased 434 or Tendulkar in several cases. Kohli I think is one of those batsman where when he gets a big score, India generally will win. Granted Dhoni's captaincy and India's bowling doesn't help but this is also generalized as you'll get examples against this.

This is more or less my point anyways