gattaca Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 it is not the amount of runs which he leaked but the manner in which bang batsman treated him. even there was a CI article saying only speed and no intimidation. even if you bowl 95 mph, if you do not have direction, it will not intimidate the batsman. irrespective of pitch conditions as well. But you have a margin of error with the pitch doing something but if it is flat you can't do much. But Aaron has to improve even in the Nz Odis he didn't bowl great he was ok.
rkt.india Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 He was injured so others got his place mainly it was Ishant.He sure belongs to be on tour may be he will let us wait and see. He did play FC and he was not good there either so you have see from him also that will he is wanting to get back into team. You keep harping on how well he did in Australia no he did not that well, he was smashed in Sydney, in perth they added more than 200 runs for first wicket yes he did take 5 wickets after that it was not a great performance. In Indian tests any pacer stats you have to take with grain of salt as they But let us not be under illusions that this guy once in test squad will run thru sides it is not going to happen he is not that good. No you are wrong. Even with our spinners played huge role in us winning series at home. In 2008 Aus series, Ishant and Zak big role. Kumble was a flop. Against England Zak played big role. There are plenty of tests where pacers played important part in our win. Even in his second test, Umesh 7 wickets. Shami picked 9 on debut. Munaf picket 7 on debut, all at home. Other than that, I never said he will run through sides though he has done that in his short test career and has the ability to do so and become one. You dont necessarily need bowlers who can run through sides. You need 4 bowlers who can ably support each other and contribute with wickets. Shami and Yadav both showed that ability.
rkt.india Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 it is not the amount of runs which he leaked but the manner in which bang batsman treated him. even there was a CI article saying only speed and no intimidation. even if you bowl 95 mph, if you do not have direction, it will not intimidate the batsman. irrespective of pitch conditions as well. ODIs and tests are two different things. Batsmen have different mindsets too. Most intimidating bowler Johnson was spanked allover in IPL and ODI series after Ashes.
renjith Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 But you have a margin of error with the pitch doing something but if it is flat you can't do much. thats what we all hope for if aaron is selected as 3rd seamer. wat am saying is not place big expectations on him. i guess its kind of 50-50 with aaron. could backfire as well if he sprays.
renjith Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 ODIs and tests are two different things. Batsmen have different mindsets too. Most intimidating bowler Johnson was spanked allover in IPL and ODI series after Ashes. but with johnson (in ashes) it was not just pace but the consistency with which he found the perfect length (ball ending at batsman around throght level) was key. i wonder if aaron has that level of control over his line or length.
vvvslaxman Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 but with johnson (in ashes) it was not just pace but the consistency with which he found the perfect length (ball ending at batsman around throght level) was key. i wonder if aaron has that level of control over his line or length. Yup he is not even in the same ball park as Johnson. But tactically he is the best available to push batsman on the backfoot. Alistair Cook, Prior are fantastic pullers so he has to be spot on with his line and length. If he can mix up with full deliveries that would be great.
express bowling Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Judging Aaron's intimidation ability based on his performances just after his return from a long injury and surgery layoff and playing LOIs on flat surfaces would not give a correct impression.
express bowling Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 but with johnson (in ashes) it was not just pace but the consistency with which he found the perfect length (ball ending at batsman around throght level) was key. i wonder if aaron has that level of control over his line or length. Aaron does not have that kind of control. After Shoaib and Brett Lee, the world has not seen a bowler who has the intimidation abilities of 2013/14 Johnson. His pace, accuracy of bouncers, steep bounce and difficult to read slingshot action combo is unique. I don't think anybody is expecting this from a rookie Aaron. What he can do though is assume the role of a fast bowler and push the batsmen on the back foot with multiple quick bouncers. He will sometimes be accurate and sometimes not. But, in tests, bowlers can get away with some inaccuracy. We need atleast one pacer who can break the monotony of pitched up attempted swing bowling punctuated by longhops. Aaron is the best bet we have got albeit not a perfect one by any stretch of imagination. The irony is, Aaron was a very accurate bowler before his injury. After that, he has adjusted his action and has become more inaccurate.
King Tendulkar Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 First any fast bowler should be picked, preserved with and backed. We go has not got this and has not got that. We don't understand development for fast bowlers (but do with all other types of cricketers wether bats/spinners). If we backed genuine fast bowlers like aaron and yadav, they will come good and become real deal. Problem is we want real deal with fast bowlers in first match and cry their weaknesses and demand their dropping when don't be real deal in in first series etc. Meanwhile ishant and co never get this and trundlers stuck with and supported. Also fast bowlers hunt in packs. Yet we seem to only want one which is contrary to all other countries ways of thinking on test cricket. Other countries look for pace first and then work on other things. You cant make a trundler fast but can make a fast bowler more accurate. Pace is vital ingredient in test cricket. Trundler fans need to see this
rkt.india Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron is not that inaccurate now. He went back to old action after Asia Cup and was very decent in accuracy after that.
Laaloo Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron is accurate but I just dont think that he has that intimidation factor that Yadav may have. Yadav seems to have more stamina and can sustain his spell for longer than Aaron.
vvvslaxman Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron is accurate but I just dont think that he has that intimidation factor that Yadav may have. Yadav seems to have more stamina and can sustain his spell for longer than Aaron. Yadava's only problem is unable to keep the pressure for sustained period. Nowadays he is bowling on both sides. I know you have more lee way in tests. But there is a chance that he will allow batsman to rotate the strike with erratic bowling. If he wants to set up a batsman he needs to bowl 3 or 4 balls in a row not just 1 or 2 balls. Don't know what happened he is bowling to leg sidish these days.
rkt.india Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron is accurate but I just dont think that he has that intimidation factor that Yadav may have. Yadav seems to have more stamina and can sustain his spell for longer than Aaron. Such bowlers are only used in a 3-4 over spell and Aaron can sustain that. He is easily the fastest Indian bowler right now. Even Johnson doesnt bowler longer spells. Yadav isnt that intimidating. Short ball isnt his strength and he isnt tall. Most of his wickets come with full balls when he gets swing.
renjith Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 overall all 5 seamers look decent (forgive me for calling ishant decent :--D. he did recenably well in nz). i think any 3 selected should do a good job. indias chances will mainly depend on how many wickets aswin/jadeja can contribute? thats is hoping dhoni will never go for an all out seam attack.
King Tendulkar Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron is accurate but I just dont think that he has that intimidation factor that Yadav may have. Yadav seems to have more stamina and can sustain his spell for longer than Aaron. See same old problem. Why are we comparing the two, why as if can only play one? Don't ask if aaron is more intimidating then yadav. Ask if aaron is more intimidating then Ishant, BK and Binny!
saneindian Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron was at least 2-3 mph slower on an average than Umesh in the test match he played. Before that when both played a Irani Trophy match, Umesh again was at least 2-3 mph faster. Lets see how Aaron bowls in practice matches. Hasn't bowled in a FC match for nearly 6 months now and may need more long form bowling before bowling in a test match given his limited FC experience.
Cricket_Hacker Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron was at least 2-3 mph slower on an average than Umesh in the test match he played. Before that when both played a Irani Trophy match, Umesh again was at least 2-3 mph faster. Lets see how Aaron bowls in practice matches. Hasn't bowled in a FC match for nearly 6 months now and may need more long form bowling before bowling in a test match given his limited FC experience. Aaron bowled slower in odi's too back then He is quicker now
zep1706 Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Aaron is not in the same class as Umesh. Umesh is wayward at times but he has the ability to produce genuinely wicket taking balls in test matches, I am not too sure about Aaron.
Vilander Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 Aaron was at least 2-3 mph slower on an average than Umesh in the test match he played. Before that when both played a Irani Trophy match, Umesh again was at least 2-3 mph faster. Lets see how Aaron bowls in practice matches. Hasn't bowled in a FC match for nearly 6 months now and may need more long form bowling before bowling in a test match given his limited FC experience. He was 10ks quicker in recent IPL though. Yadav was mostly 138-142 with odd 148.x Aaron was 144 - 148.x mostly. Both excluding slower balls or pace off death bowling.
Vilander Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 Aaron is not in the same class as Umesh. Umesh is wayward at times but he has the ability to produce genuinely wicket taking balls in test matches' date= I am not too sure about Aaron. + and Yadav gets amazing swing at super pace 145+ not seen Aaron do that..
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