Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Length isn't working because pace has gone down ,and starc's Yorkers are always a double edged sword.His style  of bowling was like this ,both in terms of line and length ,either go for runs or get wickets.

 

Starc in earlier career didnt use to leak to, its his execution thats gone now . His skill have gone down and lack of playing this format hasnt let him develop a plan B 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, the don said:

Pakistani batsmen were always gonna struggle at mcg and perth, but they have choked both the games despite playing an unfit premier bowler i still dont think the team is as bad as it looks on the points table and wont be surprised if they win the next three.

no its not a bad team but Aus conditions are not for them like UAE is not for us . Thoda sa balance off hai but good team in most conditions 

[kruiser]

51 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I don't disregard Chahar, Bhubi. They are decent bowlers, just won't win you big tournaments. Chahar has fitness issues too. You need an attack with combination of pace and swing bowlers.

What phaast bowlers did we have in 83, or 2007? Sreesanth had the worst economy and average and was benched. Our spinners and Swing bowlers did it for us. if you have quality, you can win with 5 spinners and zero fast bowlers also. 

[kruiser]

Whatever may be the pace, it is the skills that matter. And fielding to back it up. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, the don said:

Haris Rauf is the best fast bowler in t20s, nobody is ready to have that conversation.

best is bumrah-archer - all phase and somewhat nortje 

then its just phases 

 

PP- Hazelwood, shaheen, bhuvi 

 

After that its wood vs nortje vs Rauf 

• wood has just performed this yr , also eco is high but man his wkt taking has been bonkers this yrs, absolute bonkers. In wkt taking he wins over both 
• Nortje- he is actually SA spearhead not rabada . He is an all phase guy and someone whose eco is also good . In Eco he wins over both
• Rauf is good all around- may not take wkts in PP but doesnt leak runs either. 

 

Bumrah-Archer shud always be 1st 2 names then ur spoiled for choices 

 

 

[rkt.india]

11 minutes ago, kruiser said:

What phaast bowlers did we have in 83, or 2007? Sreesanth had the worst economy and average and was benched. Our spinners and Swing bowlers did it for us. if you have quality, you can win with 5 spinners and zero fast bowlers also. 

Sreesanth and RP both were fast bowlers. Sreesanth helped us win with wickets of Hayden and Gilchrist. RP and sreesanth both had 18 wickets combined and sreesanth wasn't benched. He played all the games. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by rkt.india

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, kruiser said:

if you have quality, you can win with 5 spinners and zero fast bowlers also. 

Totally agree - against right opposition someone shud do it. 

Wont be surprised if SL-Afghan do that in future

 

9 hours ago, kruiser said:

Whatever may be the pace, it is the skills that matter. And fielding to back it up. 

skills and its execution 

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Totally agree - against right opposition someone shud do it. 

Wont be surprised if SL-Afghan do that in future

 

skills and its execution 

You know no cricketer is perfect, no matter how good a skill you have, execution will always have issues that's where you need something extra like extra pace to offset the error in execution. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Sreesanth and RP both were fast bowlers. Sreesanth helped us win with wickets of Hayden and Gilchrist. RP and sreesanth both had 18 wickets combined and sreesanth wasn't benched. He played all the games. 

one game, he was bad in 80% other games . His career of 10 games just has two good game and one very avg game . 9 out of his 10 games were in SENA. 

In final he leaked at 11 whereas game was under 8 RR 

 

No one shud ever take Sreesanth name when it comes to white ball cricket specially t20. He almost ruined us in 2011 final and 2007 t20 Wc final too . 

1 game men to rahane bhi kya khela tha 2015 Wc against SA 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Starc always had issues ,I remember even in tests in aus he used to leak runs ,but his reputation is now so big that he tries to replicate it but it's not working.

he has been somewhat ok in test always. White ball was his forte 

[the don]

26 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

no its not a bad team but Aus conditions are not for them like UAE is not for us . Thoda sa balance off hai but good team in most conditions 

UAE main they were winning these close games against afg and nz, more choking than anything but yes, horribly unfit batting for Australia.

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

one game, he was bad in 80% other games . His career of 10 games just has two good game and one very avg game . 9 out of his 10 games were in SENA. 

In final he leaked at 11 whereas game was under 8 RR 

 

No one shud ever take Sreesanth name when it comes to white ball cricket specially t20. He almost ruined us in 2011 final and 2007 t20 Wc final too . 

1 game men to rahane bhi kya khela tha 2015 Wc against SA 

 

Sreesanth lacked control. He too was a swing bowler in the end. 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, the don said:

Haris Rauf is the best fast bowler in t20s, nobody is ready to have that conversation.

Yahaan hamari samasya hi samapt nahi ho rahi...aur tumhe Pakistani bowlers ko bhi ghusana hai.

Thoda time wait kar le bhai. 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

You know no cricketer is perfect, no matter how good a skill you have, execution will always have issues that's where you need something extra like extra pace to offset the error in execution. 

No one is perfect but the diff in someone good and raw is massive 

Rauf was ready and good when he started playing so PAk backed him and he got better. U can back such a guy coz he is a certain level that he wont hurt his team much plus he gives a lot of value in phases unlike umran of kuldeep .

Kuldeep sen was dropped by RR coz he was leaking at almost 14 and when mccoy came he was around 8 at death, so calculate the diff it made. Team will choose whats best for them 

 

At this point they have such bad days that a team struggles specially a team like India who doesnt have extra bowling options . 

 

Umran if he cuts down his leakage on bad days will be easily backed . Coz his good days are match winning but bad days are match loosing , if his bad days become avg u have great current value 

People often ask why SRH back bhuvi when they have tyagi- erre bhai bhuvi apne worst se worst season men kabhi 8 ki eco se run nahin diya...so why wont they. Guys like prasidh-saini in their best seasons have such avg numbers and that guy in his worst is not harming the team 

 

Current value matters a lot

 

England didnt give continue run to wood till he became better in t20. 1-2-1 aise game milte the 

Aussies are not backing riley meredith , instead they have gone to kane richardson

Even WI or RR beyond a point gave up oshane thomas

England also went for willey, curran , woakes then going for mills 

 

No one expects 5-6 eco but cut down the leak on bad coz that match loosing . Everyone will have bad days specially in t20 but make atleast have them less or reduce the damage on those days. 

No player is bigger then team that they ll carry such problem 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Sreesanth lacked control. He too was a swing bowler in the end. 

wahi to main control-execution 

swing/seam/turn/bounce/pace/slower one ye sab ka koi matalb nahin agar sahi thikane pe naa pade 

[singhvivek141]

20 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

one game, he was bad in 80% other games . His career of 10 games just has two good game and one very avg game . 9 out of his 10 games were in SENA. 

In final he leaked at 11 whereas game was under 8 RR 

 

No one shud ever take Sreesanth name when it comes to white ball cricket specially t20. He almost ruined us in 2011 final and 2007 t20 Wc final too . 

1 game men to rahane bhi kya khela tha 2015 Wc against SA 

 

He bowled well in our Pakistan ODI tour of 2005...where India won the series 4-1 despite loosing the first game...took 4 wickets in the last match. Could have taken more if not for the dropped catches (I recall 3-4).

 

In the first T20 match against Pakistan as well in 2007 T20 WC....he bowled fantastic 2 deliveries and helped end the match in tie (which we won by bowl out).

 

During that period of 2004-2007 we gave chance to many bowlers like Munaf, RP, Sree, Balaji....they all had their moments but none of them could take their career beyond a level due to one or the other reasons.

Even Zak was missing for good 3-4 years before making a comeback courtesy of County Cricket.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, the don said:

UAE main they were winning these close games against afg and nz, more choking than anything but yes, horribly unfit batting for Australia.

its conditions 

SL -WI batsman also become better when its subcontinent but when it comes to Aus u need diff skillset 

SL bowlers become attacking in subcontinent same with Shadab-NAwaz but not the same story in Aus (So their is a window of 8 overs) now if the batsman isnt giving them cushion of runs it becomes a problem . Our team have done well in Aus in t20 generally becoz our batting gives our bowling cushion and same defensive spinners like Ashwin now becomes a problem for opposition coz they arent giving runs in high run game. Same pakistan batsman can put 180 + plus in subcontinent and their spinners then under pressure are nightmare to face 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

He bowled well in our Pakistan ODI tour of 2005...where India won the series 4-1 despite loosing the first game...took 4 wickets in the last match. Could have taken more if not for the dropped catches (I recall 3-4).

 

In the first T20 match against Pakistan as well in 2007 T20 WC....he bowled fantastic 2 deliveries and helped end the match in tie (which we won by bowl out).

 

During that period of 2004-2007 we gave chance to many bowlers like Munaf, RP, Sree, Balaji....they all had their moments but none of them could take their career beyond a level due to one or the other reasons.

Even Zak was missing for good 3-4 years before making a comeback courtesy of County Cricket.

2 balls in 24 balls or one series in entire are not enough na . His white ball career looks bad coz he wasnt a good in white ball. RP singh was very good 

At some point everyone catches get dropped and on some days ull get cheap wkts, it all balances it out 

[singhvivek141]

49 minutes ago, kruiser said:

if you have quality, you can win with 5 spinners and zero fast bowlers also. 

That didn't happen even in 70's as well..where Eknath Solkar and Gavaskar were our new ball bowler.

 

Spinners utility is limited in majority of conditions outside subcontinent...wrist spinners might find some turn but finger spinners will have hard time.

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

wahi to main control-execution 

swing/seam/turn/bounce/pace/slower one ye sab ka koi matalb nahin agar sahi thikane pe naa pade 

 

 

If a cricket mad nation, with atleast 12 frontline pacers bowling 140 k+, can't develop 3 or 4 pacers who have control.and execution in T20s, then it is a massive massive systemic fault.

 

Do people give up when their children do poorly at school  ?  They put in double the effort and a lot of thought to set things right and many such initial underperformers have stellar careers in later life.

 

It is happening in Indian cricket because very few people in the Indian cricket fraternity are bothered about the pace of a bowler. They just take whoever is decently passable at this point in time without thinking about his ceiling. They are least bothered about developing a pacer with potential high ceiling. 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by express bowling