Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Nikhil_cric]

6 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

I see bowling to be bigger problem than batting for India going forward.

Easily .  Even Bumrah keeps pitching it full despite not being a 90 mph bowler anymore. 

 

Can't keep bringing the same guys in especially when they are clearly flawed. 

 

The question is what next?  The Harshit Rana's are nowhere near ready and I'm not sure he ever will be

 

These over attacking bowlers simply won't work

 

You need release height or those strong shoulder bowlers who hit the pitch consistently in the 6-8 range in long formats. 

 

Even in Test cricket, post Ishant , it's a samey attack that can be lined up and hammered .

 

These guys don't get anywhere near enough bounce.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[vishalvirsingh]

1 hour ago, MK55 said:

How he was a bit surprised why they chose Shami to open

And stuff like, in the middle overs our batsmen were reluctant to hit through the line as they weren’t sure if it’s gonna come on. That wasn’t the case in the middle overs when Australia batted.

Some obvious points. But better than simply regurgitating “Australia were better on the day” “No shame in getting defeated” “Championsip DNA” that senile Gavaskar and Manjrekar are dishing out.

KL, Virat were just too cautious as if they did not trust SKY and JAddu, when rohit and Gill attacked so much and shreyas got out early- they just started playing test innings and as soon as the thought process changed, runs became slow and that made the difference 280+ score and we could have won today as well.

[rollingstoned]

The current stable of bowlers like bowling in subcontinental conditions and they are currently optimised for it. It remains to be seen how they go in SA in a month's time where I hope we will apply some lessons from our last failed attempt at winning a test series there when we had a golden opportunity.

[Suhaan]

29 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

KL, Virat were just too cautious as if they did not trust SKY and JAddu, when rohit and Gill attacked so much and shreyas got out early- they just started playing test innings and as soon as the thought process changed, runs became slow and that made the difference 280+ score and we could have won today as well.

They should have targetted 280 given how it settles in 2 nd innings,them should have attacked later

[vishalvirsingh]

10 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Still. Enough of these short skiddy bowlers who can't exert control. 

 

They are all hittable including Bumrah. 

 

Need to freshen this attack up. They have been playing across too many formats for too long. 

 

With Bumrah's action , I don't expect him to sustain pace for much longer. 

 

It's also not to play the likes of Mukesh Kumar, Shardul Thakur etc .

 

Need to select the 5 best quicks and give all of them enough experience before next World Cup. 

 

Once again, just like in 2015, we had to play 3 flawed quicks for the entire tournament and could not afford to rotate them even a bit. 

First and foremost they should know what kind of bowlers or batsman DONot deserve to play for India.

Mukesh kumar type trundlers can't be among best 6 pacers of India. Bhuvi is a premium swing bowler but Mukesh kumar is not.

Guys who have TRUE potential should be trained.

Like kartik tyagi, umran , mayank yadav, kuldeep sen.

Train premium batsman like shreyas to play bouncers well... If Cummins can get him out on an Indian pitch .. what will shreyas do against Cummins on an Australian Pitch.

 

Our batting collapsed against Cummins starc Hazelwood ... Maxwell was lucky to get Rohit. 

[MK55]

Prasidh Arshdeep Avesh Mukesh are selected for the t20 series.

What happened to Mayank Harshit? Tyagi Umran lol?

Ok Umran Tyagi haven’t proven themselves in T20s but why not Mayank then?

 

U guys wanted Agarkar? That idiot hasn’t taken even a single bold decision until now. The World Cup just got over. It looks like no new players will be introduced for the next 2 years.

[MediumPacer]

2 hours ago, MK55 said:

Prasidh Arshdeep Avesh Mukesh are selected for the t20 series.

What happened to Mayank Harshit? Tyagi Umran lol?

Ok Umran Tyagi haven’t proven themselves in T20s but why not Mayank then?

 

U guys wanted Agarkar? That idiot hasn’t taken even a single bold decision until now. The World Cup just got over. It looks like no new players will be introduced for the next 2 years.

Not surprising at all.

[MediumPacer]

In sports you need both physicality and intelligence , indians are low on both.

[singhvivek141]

16 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

In sports you need both physicality and intelligence , indians are low on both.

Well...not 100% true. There are sports where despite limited resources India is doing well.

BCCI is an exception, too much cuddling has spoilt them.

[Pakistan]

23 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

First and foremost they should know what kind of bowlers or batsman DONot deserve to play for India.

Mukesh kumar type trundlers can't be among best 6 pacers of India. Bhuvi is a premium swing bowler but Mukesh kumar is not.

Guys who have TRUE potential should be trained.

Like kartik tyagi, umran , mayank yadav, kuldeep sen.

Train premium batsman like shreyas to play bouncers well... If Cummins can get him out on an Indian pitch .. what will shreyas do against Cummins on an Australian Pitch.

 

Our batting collapsed against Cummins starc Hazelwood ... Maxwell was lucky to get Rohit. 

Muchar lay dooba Bharat ko first took that Rohit catch to Big Show then scored match winning ton.

[MediumPacer]

49 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Well...not 100% true. There are sports where despite limited resources India is doing well.

BCCI is an exception, too much cuddling has spoilt them.

It's one thing to be an underdog and spring a surprise and quite another to be the favorites consistently and win.Was bcci better managed in 1983?Would you like that type of a team that managed to beat one of the greatest cricket teams in history?I don't think those medium pacers are cherished here ,are they?

 

And even if india had won this match our own people would say that it was pitch fixing that bought us the cup.

 

 

 

 

Team sports are also more complicated,unlike individual sports where one champion is enough.

[singhvivek141]

3 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

It's one thing to be an underdog and spring a surprise and quite another to be the favorites consistently and win.Was bcci better managed in 1983?Would you like that type of a team that managed to beat one of the greatest cricket teams in history?I don't think those medium pacers are cherished here ,are they?

You are moving from one extreme to another.

BCCI in 1983 was unprofessional as they didn't have money & resources...we didn't have any coach.

 

BCCI in 2007-2011 was professional and had decent money & resources...we had Gary Kirsten as our coach. Even in 2004-2007 we were severely competitive. We had courage of dropping someone like Laxman out of 2003 ODI WC.

 

BCCI now has again gone to another extreme of the spectrum, it has truck loads of money & plethora of resources. We have Dravid as head coach, Mhambrey as bowling coach, Rathour as batting coach. Result is again shoonya, sifar, zero.

 

9 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

And even if india had won this match our own people would say that it was pitch fixing that bought us the cup

Who cares, trophies matter at the end. Australia is a feared team coz they have won 6 WC's, 2 T20 WC's & WTC as well. No one cares how they behave on the field. They are feared & respected no matter how weak they are.

[Suhaan]

5 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

You are moving from one extreme to another.

BCCI in 1983 was unprofessional as they didn't have money & resources...we didn't have any coach.

 

BCCI in 2007-2011 was professional and had decent money & resources...we had Gary Kirsten as our coach. Even in 2004-2007 we were severely competitive. We had courage of dropping someone like Laxman out of 2003 ODI WC.

 

BCCI now has again gone to another extreme of the spectrum, it has truck loads of money & plethora of resources. We have Dravid as head coach, Mhambrey as bowling coach, Rathour as batting coach. Result is again shoonya, sifar, zero.

 

Who cares, trophies matter at the end. Australia is a feared team coz they have won 6 WC's, 2 T20 WC's & WTC as well. No one cares how they behave on the field. They are feared & respected no matter how weak they are.

This side will reach finals 9 out of 10 times in ICC events

They know it ,they can't win KOs or final

No one will question them as they reached finals ,semis like no other side has done

They take fake pride in it

Winner is only one ,accepted,but I would argue the manner with which they loose

They have lost their last games rather convincingly,SA could have won had they scored 240 like India did

But our boys just dropped the game like sissies,I know pitch was slow

Atleast make things difficult attack the other batsman,cut the singles

They are so currupt they will celebrate their umteenth KO appearance hiding their choking genes

I repeat once again this has to be the weakest Australian side ,and a loss against them on a slow pitch is utter humiliation

They all must resign asap,Dravid must do it straightaway and the freeloader Mhambrey must retire from coaching with immediate effect

 

[MediumPacer]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

BCCI in 2007-2011 was professional and had decent money & resources...we had Gary Kirsten as our coach. Even in 2004-2007 we were severely competitive. We had courage of dropping someone like Laxman out of 2003 ODI WC

Laxman was a horrible odi player, it's like saying we don't pick pujara in our white ball teams.Infact likes of ganguly and gavaskar wanted pujara in the Odi team.

 

And 2007 wc was a disaster  ,people now only remember the wt20.

 

7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Who cares, trophies matter at the end. Australia is a feared team coz they have won 6 WC's, 2 T20 WC's & WTC as well. No one cares how they behave on the field. They are feared & respected no matter how weak they are.

Pretty sure indians would be throwing tantrums and coming up with conspiracies on how we fixed this wc if we had won.

 

 

[Suhaan]

4 hours ago, MK55 said:

Prasidh Arshdeep Avesh Mukesh are selected for the t20 series.

What happened to Mayank Harshit? Tyagi Umran lol?

Ok Umran Tyagi haven’t proven themselves in T20s but why not Mayank then?

 

U guys wanted Agarkar? That idiot hasn’t taken even a single bold decision until now. The World Cup just got over. It looks like no new players will be introduced for the next 2 years.

Rinse repeat

But if they are considering the usual suspects as sacrificing lamba then I'm ok with it

Let these bozos play t20s and groom the next long format guys using non t20s games

[AKane]

ODIs  vs Aus

==========

 

Shami/Bumrah vs Kapil Dev or even Agarkar

 

Kapil Dev 

Overall per wicket average 27.45

Vs Aus  45 wickets at    27.68

Vs WI    43 wickets at    28.88       (in case you say Aus was not very strong in times of Kapil)

 

Agarkar

Overall per wicket average 27.85

Vs Aus  36 wickets at   28.41

 

Shami

Overall per wicket average 23.68

Vs Aus  39 wickets at  32.00

 

Bumrah

Overall per wicket average 23.55

Vs Aus  30 wickets at  34.13

 

Maybe, maybe the greatest fast bowling pair of Shami/Bumrah is not as good as we think when the opposition is Australia.

 

The less respected Kapil Dev (as a fast bowler) and the poor poor Aggy or Agarkar are not too bad in comparison vs Australia.

[singhvivek141]

28 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Rinse repeat

But if they are considering the usual suspects as sacrificing lamba then I'm ok with it

Let these bozos play t20s and groom the next long format guys using non t20s games

Mujhe wahi lag raha hai, these folks are just fillers till seniors rest.

In T20 WC we will again see a bowling attack of Siraj, Bumrah, Prasidh, Shami...with spinners as Bishnoi, Kuldeep & Axar. Jadeja might not make into the XI.

 

If Hardik don't get fit then one of Deepak Chahar or Shardul will sneak back in.

[Suhaan]

22 minutes ago, AKane said:

ODIs  vs Aus

==========

 

Shami/Bumrah vs Kapil Dev or even Agarkar

 

Kapil Dev 

Overall per wicket average 27.45

Vs Aus  45 wickets at    27.68

Vs WI    43 wickets at    28.88       (in case you say Aus was not very strong in times of Kapil)

 

Agarkar

Overall per wicket average 27.85

Vs Aus  36 wickets at   28.41

 

Shami

Overall per wicket average 23.68

Vs Aus  39 wickets at  32.00

 

Bumrah

Overall per wicket average 23.55

Vs Aus  30 wickets at  34.13

 

Maybe, maybe the greatest fast bowling pair of Shami/Bumrah is not as good as we think when the opposition is Australia.

 

The less respected Kapil Dev (as a fast bowler) and the poor poor Aggy or Agarkar are not too bad in comparison vs Australia.

Agarkar was mercurial against Aus,turned up as striker against them

You need few Australia tormentors to psychologically break them

We had none here

Pant was one who they fear like anything but such a travesty we missed a guy like him

It was felt in final of all matches

KL became the original Kela on 19th Nov

[AKane]

5 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

We had none here

Pant was one who they fear like anything but such a travesty we missed a guy like him

Of the 4 who played well in the Gabba test vs Aus, Pant, Gill, Siraj, Thakur.......

 

Pant has been spared the input of Dravid but has to deal with his horrible injury.

 

The other 3 Gill, Siraj and Thakur are under the tutelage of Dravid. 4 boundaries from over 10 - 50. That is very Dravid like. He has completely stamped his character on this team and it came out in the final. Thakur in his bowling and esp batting looks in character with Dravid nowadays. Cautious.

[MediumPacer]

22 minutes ago, AKane said:

Of the 4 who played well in the Gabba test vs Aus, Pant, Gill, Siraj, Thakur.......

 

Pant has been spared the input of Dravid but has to deal with his horrible injury.

 

The other 3 Gill, Siraj and Thakur are under the tutelage of Dravid. 4 boundaries from over 10 - 50. That is very Dravid like. He has completely stamped his character on this team and it came out in the final. Thakur in his bowling and esp batting looks in character with Dravid nowadays. Cautious.

Not just dravid, Gavaskar also blamed rohit for being over attacking,and then there was dhoni with that pathetic inning in the 2015 sf.