Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Even Dale Steyn didn't bowl all 20 overs over 140. So that's not the necessity.  Important is to having the ability to do that and high pace ceiling.

What I meant was ability to sustain high speed even in second and third and fourth spells.

 

Dale Steyn had one of the best outswingers in the game so he did not need to bowl 140 plus all the time.

 

Ability to bowl high percentage of 140 plus is needed for others lacking Dale Steyn's weapons.

Edited October 23, 2024 by putrevus

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

What I meant was ability to sustain high speed even in second and third and fourth spells.

 

Dale Steyn had one of the best outswingers in the game so he did not need to bowl 140 plus all the time.

 

Ability to bowl high percentage of 140 plus is needed for others lacking Dale Steyn's weapons.

There is none, no high potential fast bowler is getting a chance to play ranji for their sides or they are nt fit during the season.

Plus the mismanagement for lst 3/4 years just look at the bowling stock they played- Unadkat, Mukesh Kumar, Sikaria, etc..

 

Take a look at the ACC emerging cup fast bowlers or the ones going to Aus-A if that list shared on other thread is correct

Even previous Asia cup and Asian games

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2024 by tapandrun

[tweaker]

Kuldeep Sen got opportunity at The right time but he got injured after playing 1 odi.He would have been ideal support bowler for Bumrah and may have learned with Shami.and Bumrah ' experience 

[tweaker]

Brett Lee has suggested that in case Mohammed Shami isn't fit till the Border-Gavaskar Trophy begins, India can replace him with express pacer Mayank Yadav in the squad for the crucial five-match Test series.

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

There is none, no high potential fast bowler is getting a chance to play ranji for their sides or they are nt fit during the season.

Plus the mismanagement for lst 3/4 years just look at the bowling stock they played- Unadkat, Mukesh Kumar, Sikaria, etc..

 

Take a look at the ACC emerging cup fast bowlers or the ones going to Aus-A if that list shared on other thread is correct

Even previous Asia cup and Asian games

 

 

 

Is that due to priorities of fast bowlers wanting to play IPL than FC.

 

Bowling 20 overs/day is hard work ,not many are willing to do the hard yards.

 

I disagree on mismanagement.I agree Dravid and his team were awful but they did not stop these players from playing FC and other formats. If they had kept doing well then they would have been in contention.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Brett Lee has suggested that in case Mohammed Shami isn't fit till the Border-Gavaskar Trophy begins, India can replace him with express pacer Mayank Yadav in the squad for the crucial five-match Test series.

It is no brainer even if he plays one test.

[tapandrun]

Just now, tweaker said:

Brett Lee has suggested that in case Mohammed Shami isn't fit till the Border-Gavaskar Trophy begins, India can replace him with express pacer Mayank Yadav in the squad for the crucial five-match Test series.

Ausz are v.supportive of faster bowler, dibbly-dolly bowlers does not work in their cricketing systems.

Only right now they are struggling to get any replacement for their big 3,Morris is injured and then they are trying to infuse some newer bowler who were there in u19 last time

[tapandrun]

11 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Kuldeep Sen got opportunity at The right time but he got injured after playing 1 odi.He would have been ideal support bowler for Bumrah and may have learned with Shami.and Bumrah ' experience 

But he was bowling in the nets before the next match

[tapandrun]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Is that due to priorities of fast bowlers wanting to play IPL than FC.

 

Bowling 20 overs/day is hard work ,not many are willing to do the hard yards.

 

I disagree on mismanagement.I agree Dravid and his team were awful but they did not stop these players from playing FC and other formats. If they had kept doing well then they would have been in contention.

 

Yes that seems to be one reason for few like tyagi , d.chahar who only get fit before ipl or ipl auctions.

But then there are others like sen kept warming mp and tn benches , raj wont not include Ashok who was the top wkt taker in their local t20 league they took some other guy  instead.

Mayank got injured, umraan got injured or did not play just the last game.

 

The other reason seems to be bcci orders asking every1 to play domestic so once the ind capped players give their names no state team can say no to them.

Mayank only got to play for del because saini was called for Ind -A.

 

 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes that seems to be one reason for few like tyagi , d.chahar who only get fit before ipl or ipl auctions.

But then there are others like sen kept warming mp and tn benches , raj wont not include Ashok who was the top wkt taker in their local t20 league they took some other guy  instead.

Mayank got injured, umraan got injured or did not play just the last game.

 

The other reason seems to be bcci orders asking every1 to play domestic so once the ind capped players give their names no state team can say no to them.

Mayank only got to play for del because saini was called for Ind -A.

 

 

I might be completely wrong but I feel these guys are not putting enough effort to force selections even for their state teams.

 

Guy like Tyagi could not force any of his IPL team nor state teams to select him.Most of them are turning into Prthivi Shaw versions of bowlers minus off field issues.Not good enough or not working hard enough.Too many bowlers are being lost forget guys like Nagarkoti who might be done with cricket.

 

 

[tapandrun]

21 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I might be completely wrong but I feel these guys are not putting enough effort to force selections even for their state teams.

 

Guy like Tyagi could not force any of his IPL team nor state teams to select him.Most of them are turning into Prthivi Shaw versions of bowlers minus off field issues.Not good enough or not working hard enough.Too many bowlers are being lost forget guys like Nagarkoti who might be done with cricket.

 

 

there are 2 version for Tyagi , upca says he does nt want to play domestics and gets letters to go to nca and then there is his own version that he has been struggling with injuries. changes action every half season.

 

Its kind of back and forth kind of issue if Ind team will promote and pick sub 140 kmph bowlers then IPL team and domestic teams would pick similar kind of bowler hoping they make it to Ind team and that gets ipl/domestic team sponsors and all. if one listens to commentary faster bowlers are always ridiculed.

Similar thing when Ind was looking for no.4 batter all Ind capped IPl team captains started playing at no.4 

 

The same reason why ind does not get any mystery bowler or even big turning spinners, its line and length kind of bowlers who gets in. the reason Ind does not have many leg spinning options is because it takes time to develop and hone on line and length for leg spinners.

 

Would not mind an immaculate line line length bowler bowling ~140 kmph bt do nt think there has been any in Ind, only Bhuvi, Shami and Bhumrah has done it.

Bowlers like Kaveerapa needs to be told that he needs to work on adding some pace , he is tall, getting game time in domestics and can bowl good line and lengths

 

    

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2024 by tapandrun

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

there are 2 version for Tyagi , upca says he does nt want to play domestics and gets letters to go to nca and then there is his own version that he has been struggling with injuries. changes action every half season.

 

Its kind of back and forth kind of issue if Ind team will promote and pick sub 140 kmph bowlers then IPL team and domestic teams would pick similar kind of bowler hoping they make it to Ind team and that gets ipl/domestic team sponsors and all. if one listens to commentary faster bowlers are always ridiculed.

Similar thing when Ind was looking for no.4 batter all Ind capped IPl team captains started playing at no.4 

 

The same reason why ind does not get any mystery bowler or even big turning spinners, its line and length kind of bowlers who gets in. the reason Ind does not have many leg spinning options is because it takes time to develop and hone on line and length for leg spinners.

 

Would not mind an immaculate line line length bowler bowling ~140 kmph bt do nt think there has been any in Ind, only Bhuvi, Shami and Bhumrah has done it.

Bowlers like Kaveerapa needs to be told that he needs to work on adding some pace , he is tall, getting game time in domestics and can bowl good line and lengths

 

    

 

 

 

I feel guys like Tyagi are feeling it is beneath them to play domestic cricket. We saw that from Shreya Iyer and  Ishan Kishen too.

 

Indian team promoted 140 plus bowlers during Kohli's reign as captain, how many bowlers did we see emerge then.

 

I don't recall any IPL captain doing well as number 4, may be I forgot.

 

Indian legspinners starting from Subash Gupte to Kumble were never big turners of the ball plus they were overly reliant on their googly.Kumble added flipper and other variations as he gained more experience.

 

It is the same issue with finger spinners, SG ball with its prominent seam plus Indian pitches do most of the work for Indian spinners.They look lost sometimes if they don't get the same help in SENA.

[tapandrun]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

I feel guys like Tyagi are feeling it is beneath them to play domestic cricket. We saw that from Shreya Iyer and  Ishan Kishen too.

 

Indian team promoted 140 plus bowlers during Kohli's reign as captain, how many bowlers did we see emerge then.

 

I don't recall any IPL captain doing well as number 4, may be I forgot.

 

Indian legspinners starting from Subash Gupte to Kumble were never big turners of the ball plus they were overly reliant on their googly.Kumble added flipper and other variations as he gained more experience.

 

It is the same issue with finger spinners, SG ball with its prominent seam plus Indian pitches do most of the work for Indian spinners.They look lost sometimes if they don't get the same help in SENA.

During kolhi-Sastri era Ind had 4/5 top draw fast bowler the best bowling line-up .

This ushered the entry for few fast bowlers, ipl teams starting doing their own trials specific to fast bowling and some involved third party too to find fast bowling talent.

 

Pradish, Umran, Rana, Mayank, Sen etc. Previously IPL teams were calling the ranji bowlers for their trail camps and then pick from those most coaches knew there is no good fast bowling talent coming from ranji thats why all wanted either ind intl or intnl fast bowlers in their side.

 

Then IPL-teams started picking the net bowler in their sides, that way those who would never get a chance to play domestic are getting selected now.

 

Its only with Sharma-Dravid Ind went back to sub 140 kmph bowlers and now you are seeing them selected in all A tours and shadow tours.

SG only came in 94 (guessing here),the reason remains innovation and tricks are not part of ind cricketing set-up. They keep producing run of the mill kind of spinner and pacers because extra pace and extra spin take time to hone and master. 

 

V.sure even akthar and tait would not have made it to ind team as they were wayward initially.

 

nt able to score much runs is diffrent  thing but all pant, pandaya iyer, sanju batted at 4 for their respective teams

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2024 by tapandrun

[Need4Speed]

12 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Sakib was recorded when he played for Bihar at 17-18 was clocking 142-143. But he is short only 5'9. Avinash hasn't played any domestic cricket. He is even shorter around 5'7.

Yes Sakib is brisk and have decent accuracy it seems..yorkers and bouncers too..for the lack of height if he seams the bowl..it will be great..

[Need4Speed]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

Hoow many of them can bowl all 20 overs over 140 K.

lets hope for 16 overs..4 fiery spells of 4 overs each..

[tapandrun]

for test in Ind who is skiddy or zippy will work and if they can bowl some yorkers will be great if the reverse is happening -- Something like Umesh/Shami -- Zippy and can bowl yorker when needed. tall bowler would not get much bounce from day 3-5 and its mostly spinner who will have to take wkts.

 

but for other places (SENA) tall faster bowlers are needed

[Need4Speed]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Raj Bawa is a good option as well. Its important than selectors keep an open eye and don't just stop looking once they narrow down someone.

I hope they work on him..his hit the deck bowling will be handy in future(mostly in Aus and SAF) plus is a left hand batsman too..Nitish Reddy bowling may be more suited to NZ and Eng damp conditions..

Additionally..lets make use of Harshit Rana..and Akashdeep combined..to give some kind of batting depth..

If Rana is decently accurate his height+pace will be handy

Edited October 23, 2024 by Need4Speed

[tweaker]

8 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

I hope they work on him..his hit the deck bowling will be handy in future(mostly in Aus and SAF) plus is a left hand batsman too..Nitish Reddy bowling may be more suited to NZ and Eng damp conditions..

Additionally..lets make use of Harshit Rana..and Akashdeep combined..to give some kind of batting depth..

If Rana is decently accurate his height+pace will be handy

He could have been selected in.A team for Australia. 

[Need4Speed]

14 minutes ago, tweaker said:

He could have been selected in.A team for Australia. 

if only selectors had vision..else he needs to produce more good performances..and some media narrative..

[rkt.india]

15 minutes ago, tweaker said:

He could have been selected in.A team for Australia. 

Let him stay injury free for a while before being selected.