Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Nikhil_cric]

9 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

High release, highly accurate, and he has some usual action too.

 

Think abbas and philander would be another one.

 

My post was about Abbas.  Philander at his peak was a bit quicker 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The slowest international seamer I've seen with any success is Mohammad Abbas who averaged around 128 kph at his peak. 

 

Angus Fraser,

Courtney Walsh,

Shaun Pollock,

Chaminda Vaas,

 

They are few...who achieved decent to great success despite not being fast. 

[Rightarmfast]

24 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Angus Fraser,

Courtney Walsh,

Shaun Pollock,

Chaminda Vaas,

 

They are few...who achieved decent to great success despite not being fast. 

Shaun Pollock was sharper when he was effective. I guess he must have been around 135ish.  Walsh was effective more due to his height and bounce which were unnerving. I dont rate Angus Fraser. 

 

Vaas is a good example. He really did shine even with the lack of pace. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Angus Fraser,

Courtney Walsh,

Shaun Pollock,

Chaminda Vaas,

 

They are few...who achieved decent to great success despite not being fast. 

 

Walsh was Fast-medium and very bouncy. Was a very hostile pacer.

 

Vaas was Fast-medium too and also averaged 29.6 in tests. This kind of average can be achieved at lesser pace too. We typically look for pacers who average 27 or less in tests and 25 or less in ODIs. 

 

Pollock was someone who got a lot of zip and bounce off the deck. 

Edited December 9, 2025 by express bowling

[express bowling]

20 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

 

And I didn't compare them directly. Im just saying young Indian bowlers don't show the ability to bowl a good line - especially the ones with pace - Mayank Yadav was an exception..

 

Bumrah and Shami bowled good enough lines right from the start while maintaining pace. They never really sprayed the ball. Which is why they are our best pacers ever. Our younger pacers must try to follow this. 

 

 

20 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

And Rana bowled very good lines for the most part. He didn't spray it around a lot. 

 

 

In this series only.  And ended up bowling slower in an endeavor to do this ( even though not deliberately ).

 

Young pacers must try to bowl good lines while maintaining pace. Otherwise their pace maybe lost for ever.

[Rightarmfast]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Walsh was Fast-medium and very bouncy. Was a very hostile pacer.

 

Vaas was Fast-medium too and also averaged 29.6 in tests. This kind of average can achieved at lesser pace too. We typically look for pacers who average 27 or less in tests and 25 or less in ODIs. 

 

Pollock was someone who got a lot of zip and bounce off the deck. 

Dont think Vaas was above 135. He was more medium fast than fast medium as far as I remember him seeing. But considering for the major part of his career he bowled in the subcontinent, and discarding average, he was a pretty good servant for Lanka. 

 

Walsh would be 133ish than around 138ish. but his bounce was very unnerving and his nagging lengths. 

[Nikhil_cric]

54 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Angus Fraser,

Courtney Walsh,

Shaun Pollock,

Chaminda Vaas,

 

They are few...who achieved decent to great success despite not being fast. 

Walsh was 6'6" with a high arm action and very supple wrists 

 

This was a Courtney Walsh who was 38 years old and had bowled around 100,000 deliveries in FC + List A

 

And even then he was around the 82 mph mark and his first wicket at 4:15 in the video is around 133/134 kph.

 

No speed guns for most of his career and he was likely quicker than this at his peak

 

Pollock was decent in terms of pace until 01/02 India tour of SA.

 

Vaas had a terrible record in England, Australia, South Africa, India - the strong batting lineups of his time 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50804.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Havent watched Fraser in Test cricket. But I guess he was pretty much a conditions only pick for England even in the 90's , playing only 46 Tests in a decade 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

35 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah and Shami bowled good enough lines right from the start while maintaining pace. They never really sprayed the ball. Which is why they are our best pacers ever. Our younger pacers must try to follow this. 

 

 

 

In this series only.  And ended up bowling slower in an endeavor to do this ( even though not deliberately ).

 

Young pacers must try to bowl good lines while maintaining pace. Otherwise their pace maybe lost for ever.

Bumrah and Shami could get away with some inaccuracy because they moved the ball a fair bit at pace even early in their careers 

 

But they are not elite line bowlers like Hazlewood or Matt Henry. Shami did become one around 2022 though 

 

Lesser bowlers cannot get away with that .  

 

Most young Indian bowlers are not good line bowlers .

 

Aussies like Xavier Bartlett who are far less gifted than Prasidh and Rana have had a lot of success in ODI cricket simply because he does not offer width and keeps it in the channel or on the stumps 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Dont think Vaas was above 135. He was more medium fast than fast medium as far as I remember him seeing. But considering for the major part of his career he bowled in the subcontinent, and discarding average, he was a pretty good servant for Lanka. 

 

Vaas has clocked early 140s too till about age 30 / 31.

 

And bowling in the subcontinent does not necessarily increase averages. Bumrah, Shami, Srinath, Umesh all have low averages in tests in India. 

 

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Walsh would be 133ish than around 138ish. but his bounce was very unnerving and his nagging lengths. 

 

Walsh was hardly clocked till age 36 / 37, when he was visibly much slower than his peak years. In the 1980s and early 90s he was very lively paced. 

Edited December 9, 2025 by express bowling

[raki05]

10 hours ago, AKane said:

I never saw Asif bowling at that speed - I always saw him around 130 sometimes a bit higher but mostly a bit lower.

 

Here he bowls Laxman at 129.6 kmph

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iWDKcRgdSs

 

My point being if this guy Nabi can get this type of movement - could be worth an investment even at 130kmph esp in places like NZ. Another thing with this Nabi is that the wk and slips are quite back and the ball is carrying..... so the pace is deceptive.

I have seen him getting thrashing most of the time when pitch was not assisting. He was pakistani bhuvi bhaiya!!

[express bowling]

5 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Bumrah and Shami could get away with some inaccuracy because they moved the ball a fair bit at pace even early in their careers 

 

But they are not elite line bowlers like Hazlewood or Matt Henry. Shami did become one around 2022 though 

 

Lesser bowlers cannot get away with that .  

 

Most young Indian bowlers are not good line bowlers .

 

Aussies like Xavier Bartlett who are far less gifted than Prasidh and Rana have had a lot of success in ODI cricket simply because he does not offer width and keeps it in the channel or on the stumps 

 

 

140 k+ pacers don't need to be "elite line" bowlers but "good enough line" bowlers. 

 

I don't want a Bartlett. I want the next Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada, Shami etc. Basically pacers who combine good enough accuracy and movement with good enough pace and bounce. ( although they may not be the best in any of these aspects )

 

Because it is these pacers who become elite pacers. 

 

Prasidh and Harshit need to be good enough in terms of both pace and lines. ( Combine both rather than go for any one quality )

 

 

Edited December 9, 2025 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Vaas has clocked early 140s too till about age 30 / 31.

 

And bowling in the subcontinent does not necessarily increase averages. Bumrah, Shami, Srinath, Umesh all have low averages in tests in India. 

 

 

Walsh was hardly clocked till age 36 / 37, when he was visibly much slower than his peak years. In the 1980s and early 90s he was very lively paced. 

Rare, very rare. Vaas bowled in 140's extremely rare. He was mostly around 130-133's. 

 

Walsh may have been lively during his peak, but he was not known for his pace. I'd say he was still mostly 135'sh during his peak. 

[express bowling]

Bumrah  2nd over 

 

143 .. catch flies wide of slips

141

144

139

144

133

Edited December 9, 2025 by express bowling

[Need4Speed]

Umran is saying he is still bowling 150.. and his yorkers and slower balls are working well..

 

 

[singhvivek141]

11 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Umran is saying he is still bowling 150.. and his yorkers and slower balls are working well..

 

 

He isn't...maybe 135-140 with odd balls hitting 143-144.
He looked as quick as Ashok if not slow.

[Rightarmfast]

22 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Walsh was 6'6" with a high arm action and very supple wrists 

 

This was a Courtney Walsh who was 38 years old and had bowled around 100,000 deliveries in FC + List A

 

And even then he was around the 82 mph mark and his first wicket at 4:15 in the video is around 133/134 kph.

 

No speed guns for most of his career and he was likely quicker than this at his peak

 

Pollock was decent in terms of pace until 01/02 India tour of SA.

 

Vaas had a terrible record in England, Australia, South Africa, India - the strong batting lineups of his time 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50804.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Havent watched Fraser in Test cricket. But I guess he was pretty much a conditions only pick for England even in the 90's , playing only 46 Tests in a decade 

 

Likely quicker is about 137'ish. Even if you watch his initial years matches, he doesnt appear quick. Then again, he didnt have a quick arm action, although the unnerving bounce can give a visual impression that the ball was quicker. But for sure, he was deadly. He used his height well.

 

Pollock was sharper till around 97/98. I remember his spell in Pakistan in 97. He was deadly and breathing fire. More due to his line and length though. In terms of pace, my guess would be, tops he would bowl 140(maybe). In the fag end of his career, he became a military medium bowler and was not effective at all. 

Angus Fraser was... well, not worth mentioning. 

 

English team used to hype every player of theirs. I remember there was a leftie bloke, Allan Mullaly in late 90's. English commentators and media hyped him as the next Wasim Akram. When speed guns came, he was found to be bowling around 125-130!!!

[Nikhil_cric]

38 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Likely quicker is about 137'ish. Even if you watch his initial years matches, he doesnt appear quick. Then again, he didnt have a quick arm action, although the unnerving bounce can give a visual impression that the ball was quicker. But for sure, he was deadly. He used his height well.

 

Pollock was sharper till around 97/98. I remember his spell in Pakistan in 97. He was deadly and breathing fire. More due to his line and length though. In terms of pace, my guess would be, tops he would bowl 140(maybe). In the fag end of his career, he became a military medium bowler and was not effective at all. 

Angus Fraser was... well, not worth mentioning. 

 

English team used to hype every player of theirs. I remember there was a leftie bloke, Allan Mullaly in late 90's. English commentators and media hyped him as the next Wasim Akram. When speed guns came, he was found to be bowling around 125-130!!!

Pollock was clocked at 143 kph in the 99/00. Probably was quicker in the 97/98 before his back injury. Not average pace, but he had an effort bouncer that was quicker than his normal deliveries. Think he lost that after back injury in 98.

 

Walsh may have hit 140 + on effort balls in his early career.  He had playing since 1984 and literally nobody bowled more than him in FC/List A cricket. But he was at least 82+ mph average speed for most of his career along with his height. 

 

Mullally was a 75 mph trundler by 2001.

 

Bowlers used to lose pace faster in that era ,so he may have been a quicker but a trundler nonetheless 

 

 

[Suhaan]

19 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Pollock was clocked at 143 kph in the 99/00. Probably was quicker in the 97/98 before his back injury. Not average pace, but he had an effort bouncer that was quicker than his normal deliveries. Think he lost that after back injury in 98.

 

Walsh may have hit 140 + on effort balls in his early career.  He had playing since 1984 and literally nobody bowled more than him in FC/List A cricket. But he was at least 82+ mph average speed for most of his career along with his height. 

 

Mullally was a 75 mph trundler by 2001.

 

Bowlers used to lose pace faster in that era ,so he may have been a quicker but a trundler nonetheless 

 

 

Although Pollock was mostly fast medium and became a trundler as most do later in his career

I have seen him clock 145kph but that was the only time, in 2001/2002 Carlton and United Series

[Nikhil_cric]

3 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Although Pollock was mostly fast medium and became a trundler as most do later in his career

I have seen him clock 145kph but that was the only time, in 2001/2002 Carlton and United Series

Wow. Any video link to this?

 

That tri series had pretty high speeds but I don't Eddie Smith has this particular reading in his list 

Edited December 10, 2025 by Nikhil_cric

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Wow. Any video link to this?

 

That tri series had pretty high speeds but I don't Eddie Smith has this particular reading in his list 

I'm pretty sure about that,it was there in the graphics

Will try to find out any video