maniac Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 My point is no.6 batsman brings zzilch to a side considering Dhoni' date=' Jaddu, BHuvan can all bat. If youo thrown in Ashwin as well.. That is 4 batsmen. Oodds of one of them clicking is high plus you get 5 genuine bowlers. 6+1+4 is workable solution when one of the 6 batsman is a decent part timer. None of them are. Below average net bowlers in village cricket. To compound the matter our bowling is not really world class. Only way they will get 20 wickets is through having everyone chip in consistently..For that to happen you need to rotate bowlers well. For that you need 5 genuine bowlers .[/quote'] We are 4 down and we have 2 batsman playing,I know you don't rate rohit but say if a world class bat who was good enough to replace him was playing instead wouldn't you be in a more secure position instead of jadeja,dhoni or Bhuvan at 4 down. Similarly do you think adding Aaron or Ashwin to those side would have bundled out England for less than 300?
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 You don't go with that kind of thinking simple....as I said the replacements for 5th bowlers like kallis' date=Watson,hafeez,Matthews is always a batsman not a bowler. Similarly for the likes of Bhuvi,m.j,philander batting is a luxury....you don't go with that line of thinking. If jadeja or Ashwin was a world class batsman than maybe you would have a point but that is not the case. Shami, Pankaj are world class bowlers? You have Kohli,, Pujara, Vijay, Dhawan, Rahane.. 5 solid top order batsmen.. IN terms of class they are on par with world class batsmen. But our bowling is not on par. YOu are basically including no.6 because they fail. That is a flawed thinking. If ROhit fails.. what will you do.. You will add a 7th batsman.?.
GautiMaan Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Ashwin's bowling avg in away games in 75. That's pretty much part timer esque. So why not go with a full time batsman avg 50+ in tests. Away stats for Ashwin are considered but not for the full time batsman with 50+ avg:hysterical::hysterical: Also keep in mind Ashwin has a batting average of 35+.Has looked secure with the bat in the tests he has played overseas
maniac Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Shami' date=' Pankaj are world class bowlers? You have Kohli,, Pujara, Vijay, Dhawan, Rahane.. 5 solid top order batsmen.. IN terms of class they are on par with world class batsmen. But our bowling is not on par. YOu are basically including no.6 because they fail. That is a flawed thinking. If ROhit fails.. what will you do.. You will add a 7th batsman.?.[/quote'] So aren't rahane,vijay or for the matter of fact kohli or pujara proven performers at the overseas level.....it's infact their first series.yeah they may be world class but none of them are established yet
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 We are 4 down and we have 2 batsman playing' date='I know you don't rate rohit but say[b'] if a world class bat who was good enough to replace him was playing instead wouldn't you be in a more secure position instead of jadeja,dhoni or Bhuvan at 4 down. Similarly do you think adding Aaron or Ashwin to those side would have bundled out England for less than 300? We wouldn't even be in this situation. We might have restricted them for low total and INdia might have secured a lead and England could have potentiallly been in a losing situation. You don't include a no.6 with the thinking they will come in handy to save a test on day 5 lol. That is very defensive thinking. Give me someone who can get wickets. One wicket is more worth than 29 runs.
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 So aren't rahane' date='vijay or for the matter of fact kohli or pujara proven performers at the overseas level.....it's infact their first series.yeah they may be world class but none of them are established yet[/quote'] Bhuvaneswar , Shami, Pankaj, Ahswin are established over seas.?
Number Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Away stats for Ashwin are considered but not for the full time batsman with 50+ avg:hysterical::hysterical: Also keep in mind Ashwin has a batting average of 35+.Has looked secure with the bat in the tests he has played overseas Ok, lets not play Rohit. Try somebody else then. Or find a bowler who can take wickets then I'm okay with 5+5+1. But fake all rounders are not good.
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Ok, lets not play Rohit. Try somebody else then. Or find a bowler who can take wickets then I'm okay with 5+5+1. But fake all rounders are not good. Fake all rounders > Fake batsmen.
maniac Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 So according to vvs rohit will fail 100% after having one bad series but for some odd reason every one else is a solid proven performer. If the top 5 were piling up runs,we wouldn't have lost a test each in sa and Nzl.....these guys are still young and have had a fantastic start that's it and they have potential to be the best in the world. Look at kohli one series and there are doubts on him even though he is a proven performer at odi level...that is because he doesn't have a long record to arrive at a conclusion,same is the case for everyone and that includes rohit too.
maniac Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Fake all rounders > Fake batsmen. Once again your obsession with rohit continues.....let me bring you back to the main topic what about fake allrounders and real batsmen then?
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 So according to vvs rohit will fail 100% after having one bad series but for some odd reason every one is a solid proven performer. If the top 5 were piling up runs,we wouldn't have lost a test each in as and Nzl.....these guys are still young and have had a fantastic start that's it and they have potential to be the best in the world. Look at kohli one series and there are doubts on him even though he is a proven performer at odi level...that is because he doesn't have a long record to arrive at a conclusion,same is the case for everyone and that includes rohit too. Why don't you load the side with batsmen then with no bowlers?
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Once again your obsession with rohit continues.....let me bring you back to the main topic what about fake allrounders and real batsmen then? Your obsession with Jaddu, Ashwin continue. You call them bits and pieces players. when they are here as speiciialist spinners. Them not performing is a different story. But just because they can bat they are not bits and pieces players.
FischerTal Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 If rohit can bat out a draw today I'm sure he would silence all his critics
Raghav_12 Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Captain Kewl had claimed India is improving enough to give him satisfaction when we had drawn a test each in NZ and SA. Now by winning a test, I am sure he would be further satisfied with our improvement. Dhoni has planned it all. He has a vision 2020, means India would win one overseas tour by year 2020.
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 If rohit can bat out a draw today I'm sure he would silence all his critics NO you won't. As long as you don't go for win.. Criticesm stays.
maniac Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Your obsession with Jaddu' date=' Ashwin continue. You call them bits and pieces players. when they are here as speiciialist spinners. Them not performing is a different story. But just because they can bat they are not bits and pieces players.[/quote'] Jadeja and Ashwin are bowlers first who happen to have some decent batting performances....their batting should be a bonus not the reason to play them ahead of batsmen. Yes we can play both if the pitch demands or one of them as we have no option for spinners but playing these 2 +3 other bowlers is pointless. I don't think Ashwin is bits and pieces over all....he can be a good frontline bowler as he has shown in s.c and if he replicates the form he can play overseas too but till then if he is considered in the same league as sir jadeja he will have the bits and pieces tag.
GautiMaan Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 People are placing so much emphasis on our success with 6+1+4 in the 2000's and are reluctant to change the combo,well at one point in time we were successfull with three spinners in England do we fly in Bhajji and Ojha to see if we can replicate that? Can our number six Rohit perform a rearguard action like Laxman or can any of the top 6 play a supporting role like Duminy?We need to look at our strengths and i agree with vvs that Ashwin,Bhuvi,Jadeja can make up for the sixth batsman more often then not. Whether you rate him or not,everyone could see the purchase Ali was getting of the wicket and Ashwin could have chipped in with a few here.
rkt.india Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 My point is no.6 batsman brings zzilch to a side considering Dhoni' date=' Jaddu, BHuvan can all bat. If youo thrown in Ashwin as well.. That is 4 batsmen. Oodds of one of them clicking is high plus you get 5 genuine bowlers. 6+1+4 is workable solution when one of the 6 batsman is a decent part timer. None of them are. Below average net bowlers in village cricket. To compound the matter our bowling is not really world class. Only way they will get 20 wickets is through having everyone chip in consistently..For that to happen you need to rotate bowlers well. For that you need 5 genuine bowlers .[/quote'] 6+1+4 will work if we have 4 good bowlers contributing. We still need a 3rd and 4th bowler who is able to contribute, so talking about 5th is not fruitful until 3rd and 4th bowlers are capable. BK has done well. Ishant had some good spells but Shami and Jaddu have been disappointing. You cannot have 4 bowlers and one of them is just used to contain. 5 bowlers are not needed if 4 are good.
Cricket_Hacker Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 now kaptaan kewl will make a lame excuse for not picking Ashwin like "it's easy in hindsight" or something like that
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 6+1+4 will work if we have 4 good bowlers contributing. We still need a 3rd and 4th bowler who is able to contribute' date=' so talking about 5th is not fruitful until 3rd and 4th bowlers are capable. BK has done well. Ishant had some good spells but Shami and Jaddu have been disappointing. You cannot have 4 bowlers and one of them is just used to contain. 5 bowlers are not needed if 4 are good.[/quote'] We don't have good 4.. So why keep going back to having good 4. We have good 1. That's it. least we can do is manage the 1. Similarly if we have good 5 why do you need 6 in the batting deartment. Also.. bowlers will in addition contribute.
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