"There will come a time where we will lose to Pakistan in a World Cup" : Dhoni

[Asim]

I cant get a Pakistani to answer this so if you dont mind please do elaborate. Lets round the percentage UP to 60%. So basically if Pakistan wins 6 out of 10 games. Why cant they win any world cup games? I mean you guys are dominant no? Id expect your dominant team to at least win once against their arch rivals on the largest of stages. Doesnt that make any sense? Why are they 0 and 10 in world cup games against India if they have "clear dominance indeed"?Shouldnt the WC record be 6-4 or even 8-2 or 9-1 FOR Pakistan?

Abey you are robot-like posting same stuff over n over, ab thora agay b barh to... If Pak has indeed dominated india and clearly way ahead in overall record, its there in record books and a FACT... no-one can just ignore, you got to admit it like ur captain Dhoni ;) how simply "mai nahi manta" attitude can change the reality? Now as for as WC games are concerned (although here india winning 5/6 times the toss and electing bat is another fact, Pak always been poor in chasing but I don't want to put whole blame on toss, its part of game although I genuinely dont see ind winning any game in 90s if it was Pak batting first) but that's fine, so at best u can say ind dominated pak in WC games but still it wont change the fact that in Overall record historically Pak has dominated india. Now no matter even if WC record goes to 100-0 but overall ratio for Pak stays 1+, even if 1.01 instead of 1.4 something...

[zen]

I don't keep a count of head to head records but would Pakistan swap the world cup final win over Eng in 1992 for a better h2h record? Would Ind do the same for say vs. WI, or SL vs. Aus? If the answer is no, then I don't know why Dhoni or we are even getting in to this topic.

[jonas10]

Abey you are robot-like posting same stuff over n over, ab thora agay b barh to... If Pak has indeed dominated india and clearly way ahead in overall record, its there in record books and a FACT... no-one can just ignore, you got to admit it like ur captain Dhoni ;) how simply "mai nahi manta" attitude can change the reality? Now as for as WC games are concerned (although here india winning 5/6 times the toss and electing bat is another fact, Pak always been poor in chasing but I don't want to put whole blame on toss, its part of game although I genuinely dont see ind winning any game in 90s if it was Pak batting first) but that's fine, so at best u can say ind dominated pak in WC games but still it wont change the fact that in Overall record historically Pak has dominated india. Now no matter even if WC record goes to 100-0 but overall ratio for Pak stays 1+, even if 1.01 instead of 1.4 something...

Well thank you for answering... The fact that you don't mind losing 100 more world Cup games in a row to India and are happy to have amul Cup in 1984 speaks volumes. If Indians actually cared about "overall record" they'd have monthly bilateral series like they do with sri Lanka the last 5 years. Content beating Pakistan 10 times in world Cup I guess. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[SLICKR392]

72:51 is a clear dominance indeed... btw never knew Dhoni belongs to Lahore :cantstop:

72:51 is no where clear to 'dominance'. Get your head checked, dude. And whereas in those stats the crucial WC games being won by us.

[Detonator]

Pak have a superior record, and they have dominated us more than Ind dominated Pak. even they have have better record in India. hard but true. but 10-0 is sheer absurd level of dominance :ohyeah:

[maniac]

Dhoni is just throwing them a bone and they are falling for it :cantstop: But anyway a good diplomatic statement.

[amiret]

72:51 is no where clear to 'dominance'. Get your head checked' date=' dude. And whereas in those stats the crucial WC games being won by us.[/quote'] "Dominance" was the word used by Dhoni yesterday in his interview with regard to pak's record vs India . That is why it is being mentioned in this thread ( this thread is about his interview.) . I don't believe MSD needs to have his head checked . Dhoni also mentioned that india are "way behind" or that We can be proud of our WC record only to "some extent".

[zen]

I have a solution to this problem: a) Ind loves WC and high pressure games b) Pak loves H2H (for obvious reasons) Hypothetically, would Pak agree to swap their world cup 1992 title for majority of wins that Ind has against them? For e.g. - India would have 3 world cup titles (vs. current 2 w/ the addition of Pak's '92 title), B+H win, Rothmans win, etc. While Pak would have 72 + 51 - WC games, B+H, Rothmas, etc. for an actually dominating h2h record (so its fans would not have to rely on creating a stupid dominating h2h record argument which is not actually dominating no matter what Dhoni thinks) Pak will be in the league of teams such as Eng, SA, NZ, etc. which have not won a WC, but Pak will have the opportunity to fire crackers for having a truly dominating h2h vs. Ind .... and ofc, Ind would be only be a three time world cup champ, that's it. Is Pak ready for the swap? :two_thumbs_up:

[jonas10]

It seems like Pakistans dream is to be like South Africa who has an amazing head to head record vs everyone but are forever known as chokers. Gotta give credit to SA fans however...never heard one of them say they have better "head to head record" vs India when the lost in semi finals last T20 or against New Zealand in the semi finals last ODI world cup.

[Asim]

I have a solution to this problem: a) Ind loves WC and high pressure games b) Pak loves H2H (for obvious reasons) Hypothetically, would Pak agree to swap their world cup 1992 title for majority of wins that Ind has against them? For e.g. - India would have 3 world cup titles (vs. current 2 w/ the addition of Pak's '92 title), B+H win, Rothmans win, etc. While Pak would have 72 + 51 - WC games, B+H, Rothmas, etc. for an actually dominating h2h record (so its fans would not have to rely on creating a stupid dominating h2h record argument which is not actually dominating no matter what Dhoni thinks) Pak will be in the league of teams such as Eng, SA, NZ, etc. which have not won a WC, but Pak will have the opportunity to fire crackers for having a truly dominating h2h vs. Ind .... and ofc, Ind would be only be a three time world cup champ, that's it. Is Pak ready for the swap? :two_thumbs_up:

Well thank you for answering... The fact that you don't mind losing 100 more world Cup games in a row to India and are happy to have amul Cup in 1984 speaks volumes. If Indians actually cared about "overall record" they'd have monthly bilateral series like they do with sri Lanka the last 5 years. Content beating Pakistan 10 times in world Cup I guess. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

That's where you guys go wrong, whole of your argument based just on assumption that nobody from Pak cares about WC matches... if anyone from Pak says we dominated india in overall record, it only means "we dominated india in overall record" but you guys for some reason take it as "WC games has no importance and whole importance belong to everything other than WC where we dominate india" :giggle: whereas no-one saying that... Many congrats to you for 6-0, job welldone but WC stats are what they are and Overall record is what it is... I think here an example might help you, Lets say anyone from Eng says our team dominate Pak in overall record, I'll have no issue accepting that because statistically it would be a Fact so I dont think I would ever say, No you never dominated Pak since we won WC final match (or suppose even if it was like 6-0 WC record) vs you ... To me saying that would be non-sense because WC final or WC record would just be a WC record and has simply nothing to do with overall record... Neither I will take his statement "we dominated Pak in overall record" as "we dont care about WC games and we dominate Pak because WC Final has ZERO importance" :D like what u guys r doing here...

[zen]

Pls answer the Q in Y or N - would Pak agree to the proposed swap?

[jonas10]

That's where you guys go wrong, whole of your argument based just on assumption that nobody from Pak cares about WC matches... if anyone from Pak says we dominated india in overall record, it only means "we dominated india in overall record" but you guys for some reason take it as "WC games has no importance and whole importance belong to everything other than WC where we dominate india" :giggle: whereas no-one saying that... Many congrats to you for 6-0, job welldone but WC stats are what they are and Overall record is what it is... I think here an example might help you, Lets say anyone from Eng says our team dominate Pak in overall record, I'll have no issue accepting that because statistically it would be a Fact so I dont think I would ever say, No you never dominated Pak since we won WC final match (or suppose even if it was like 6-0 WC record) vs you ... To me saying that would be non-sense because WC final or WC record would just be a WC record and has simply nothing to do with overall record... Neither I will take his statement "we dominated Pak in overall record" as "we dont care about WC games and we dominate Pak because WC Final has ZERO importance" :D like what u guys r doing here...

Regarding your analogy its highly flawedl. Would you trade that 1 final for a 9-0 thumping by england in a bilateral series? England wins in 1992 Pak wins some bilateral series 9-0 1 week after. 10 game record is 9-1 for Pakistan? Do you know what happened after the 1983 world cup when India won? West Indies came to India and beat them like 5 or 7 - 0. Do you think anyone remembers? Anyone cares besides hardcore cricket fans posting on these boards? Do you think Viv Richards would trade that entire series for a replay of the game with India at Lords? I dont get how 6-4 regular game track record is domination but 10-0 in world cup matches is not? The fact remains Pakistan has lost very badly in front of 1 billion viewers and now they have turned to this arcane pacification of Sharjah matches to console them.

[vijay50]

72-51 will become 85-86 if 50 matches are played in next 7 years outside UAE,Sharjah.

[jonas10]

72-51 will become 85-86 if 50 matches are played in next 7 years outside UAE' date='Sharjah.[/quote'] Thats the thing...BCCI and Indian players dont care or Pakistan would agree tomorrow. Everyone on this forum makes more money than Pak cricketers. It would be a god send for them to have a 7 game bilateral series against India and finally get some cash in their pockets since they cant play IPL. It just isnt something India and their players deem as important.

[Marut]

72-51 is indeed a very healthy lead. But Pakistan's lead is based on dominance in the 80s and is weakening by the decade. 80s: Pakistan lead 19-9 90s: Pakistan lead 26-17 00s: Pakistan lead 22-18 10s: India lead 7-3 The trend has completely reversed around mid 2000s, and India has been leading head to head encounters since then. And then you have 6-0 in the WC, so Pakistan has been completed dominated by India for the past 10 years. Pakistan H-H is resting on past laurels, which is why H-H record does not mean much today.

[jonas10]

72-51 is indeed a very healthy lead. But Pakistan's lead is based on dominance in the 80s and is weakening by the decade. 80s: Pakistan lead 19-9 90s: Pakistan lead 26-17 00s: Pakistan lead 22-18 10s: India lead 7-3 The trend has completely reversed around mid 2000s, and India has been leading head to head encounters since then. And then you have 6-0 in the WC, so Pakistan has been completed dominated by India for the past 10 years. Pakistan H-H is resting on past laurels, which is why H-H record does not mean much today.

All this shows is that India doesnt care about H2H. If it mattered then in 10s India would be clamoring for annual bilateral series as this is their best period...world cup champions #1 ODI team, champions trophy champs etc. Why arnt they desperate to play Pakistan and "set the record straight"?

[vijay50]

72-51 is indeed a very healthy lead. But Pakistan's lead is based on dominance in the 80s and is weakening by the decade. 80s: Pakistan lead 19-9 90s: Pakistan lead 26-17 00s: Pakistan lead 22-18 10s: India lead 7-3 The trend has completely reversed around mid 2000s, and India has been leading head to head encounters since then. And then you have 6-0 in the WC, so Pakistan has been completed dominated by India for the past 10 years. Pakistan H-H is resting on past laurels, which is why H-H record does not mean much today.

It is unfortunate that India did not play Pakistan often from 2006 due to politics.This record would have reduced drastically by now.

[goose]

Dhoni is using some uber advanced reverse psychology times ten here...he's taken every possible traditional Pakistani viewpoint and said...there you go, happy now? Dhoni is the god of disarming the opponent.

[maniac]

India raises it's intensity when it matters...not just the WC....for eg;the sahara cup was a unique concept the first time-result an Indian bowling consisting of Ganguly,Mohanty and Harvinder Singh owned an ATG Pak team :giggle: by the 2nd Sahara cup came along it was a watered down event-Idon't even recollect any games from that and by that point that was the end of the concept...no one even gave a fk about it. Similarly the Jeet Lo Dil was a great concept,the apparent beginning of a new era-result-India wins again. Then again once it is watered down,no one cares....I beleive we won the next time we toured Pak again but as I said who cares..... Here is my list of actual games won by Pak that mattered Miandad 6 game. Chennai Test Karachi Test The 3-1 Loss to them in the Aussie Tri series....Most importantly the game where Waqar and Saqlain took them home else it would have been 2-2 even there but credit where due. Pre 80's don't even care....Weren't we even-stevens? The Imran Khan series were the ball "swung" a lot :winky: That's pretty much it....... Rest all are pretty much insignificant. So credit where due Pak won these games and we acknowledge that as losing is a part of the game. but cmo'n 10-0 That is a thrashing of epic propotions :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

Sports are lived in the moment. Applying retrospective justifications like who did or did not win the WC is stupid. Personally, my interest in India-Pakistan clashes has been declining with time, except for the '96 match. '92 - next day is Geography and Chemistry exam. I keep walking around till my parents say, it's okay to fail a class, but a WC comes every 4 years. Regarding '96, I have a blog. '99 was in presence of nerds high on Kargil. ''03 was the year when getting me drunk was India's lucky charm. '07- was okay. '11 - Meh Everything is a quotient of your age.