Gollum Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 For all the claims about Turkey being a secular Muslim country and centre for tolerance 1. Highest percentage of Muslim population in the world is in Turkey @ 99.9% 2. Armenian genocide and treatment of Armenian Christians in general, yet to apologize formally 3. Free passage for foreign ISIS fighters through Turkey 4. Reluctance to engage ISIS 5. Allowing ISIS to attack Kobane from its territory SHATTERS THAT MYTH
AmreekanDesi Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 what does first poiint have to do with anything? also. Have you been to Turkey? Iv been there and Izmir and Istanbul are comparable to any major European city. its secularism is evident in the fact that no one nvolves themselves with how religious or not the other person is. India is not even 10% secular as Turkey is
G_B_ Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 what does first poiint have to do with anything? also. Have you been to Turkey? Iv been there and Izmir and Istanbul are comparable to any major European city. its secularism is evident in the fact that no one nvolves themselves with how religious or not the other person is. India is not even 10% secular as Turkey is maybe you need to ask what happened to the minorities.....for such a high % to be achieved.... and lay off the pretending to be Indian gig. Its getting boring...
AmreekanDesi Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 maybe you need to ask what happened to the minorities.....for such a high % to be achieved.... and lay off the pretending to be Indian gig. Its getting boring... why would i pretend to be any other nationality than what i am :finger:
Vilander Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 what does first poiint have to do with anything? also. Have you been to Turkey? Iv been there and Izmir and Istanbul are comparable to any major European city. its secularism is evident in the fact that no one nvolves themselves with how religious or not the other person is. India is not even 10% secular as Turkey is :haha: padosi scum. We can smell your stench from far far away...:haha: there is a thread on this in the same forum being discussed right now...
Texy Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 what does first poiint have to do with anything? also. Have you been to Turkey? Iv been there and Izmir and Istanbul are comparable to any major European city. its secularism is evident in the fact that no one nvolves themselves with how religious or not the other person is. India is not even 10% secular as Turkey is :cantstop: Couldn't resist now could u
AmreekanDesi Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 :cantstop: Couldn't resist now could u being self critical s important for any nation what i said isnt true?
Muloghonto Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 For all the claims about Turkey being a secular Muslim country and centre for tolerance 1. Highest percentage of Muslim population in the world is in Turkey @ 99.9% 2. Armenian genocide and treatment of Armenian Christians in general, yet to apologize formally 3. Free passage for foreign ISIS fighters through Turkey 4. Reluctance to engage ISIS 5. Allowing ISIS to attack Kobane from its territory SHATTERS THAT MYTH 1. Turkey had a 15-20% Orthodox Greek minority till the mid 1800s, when Greece got its independence from Turkey and most of the Orthodox Greeks moved to Greece. Greece also had 10-15% Sunni Turk population who moved to Turkey in the same period. This is what effectively created a near absolute muslim majority in Turkey as Orthodox Greeks were the only significant minority in Turkey. 2. Armenian genocide is more controversial than what the EU makes it out to be. Armenians were killed en masse and deported, but so were Sunni turks as the government basically lost control over Turkey with the Ottoman overthrow. The reason Turks refuse to apologize is because they view it as a time of anarchy where everyone died and got displaced, with obviously, the minorities feeling more of a pinch, not a potracted state campaign to eliminate the Armenians ala Hitler's Germany or Jinnah's Pakistan. I am not saying i agree completely with the Turk perspective, but just saying that it is not a ABC genocide scenario like the Jews in WWII or Bangladeshis in 1971. 3. I don't think you can fault Turkey for foreign passage. Its not like they had the border all sealed up and decieded to look the other way only for ISIS fighters. They cannot seal their border and this is why PKK Kurdish fighters have for decades gone into hiding into Iraqi and Syrian Kurdistan only to re-emerge in Turkish Kurdistan after a few years when the heat is off. Even America fails to stop illegal border crossings with its Mexico border despite having 100x more resources and manpower than Turkey dedicated to it. I see it as general incompetence to seal their border, not complicity with ISIS 4. It is reluctant to engage ISIS because Turkey has significant issues currently with their secularists being pushed back out of government positions by Islamists (Racip Erdogan is an islamist, not a secularist) and they are wary of further provoking unrest in their nation by getting involved with a religious entity.
randomGuy Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 being self critical s important for any nation what i said isnt true? You are being too harsh on India bro. Turkey is 99.9% Islamic, India is ~15%. That makes India about 15% secular as Turkey is.
AmreekanDesi Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 You are being too harsh on India bro. Turkey is 99.9% Islamic, India is ~15%. That makes India about 15% secular as Turkey is. secularism doesnt have anything to do with what most ppl to thnk i admit turkeys been regressing under Erdogan but a true test of secularism can be seen by how much religon is in the natioal or narratve pre-Erdogan it was nonexistent. only in recent years it has been somewhat however religion and relationship b/w communties of different religions is almost always the top political topic in our country. i dont understand why ppl are taking this in such a negative way. turkey is one of the true succes stores in the last couple of decades and sth every developing country should aspire to. their per capita income has tripled within a decade and was one of the few countries not affected majorly by the great recession. so looking to learn from them and appreciate them iis sth good
randomGuy Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 secularism doesnt have anything to do with what most ppl to thnk i admit turkeys been regressing under Erdogan but a true test of secularism can be seen by how much religon is in the natioal or narratve pre-Erdogan it was nonexistent. only in recent years it has been somewhat however religion and relationship b/w communties of different religions is almost always the top political topic in our country. i dont understand why ppl are taking this in such a negative way. turkey is one of the true succes stores in the last couple of decades and sth every developing country should aspire to. their per capita income has tripled within a decade and was one of the few countries not affected majorly by the great recession. so looking to learn from them and appreciate them iis sth good Turkey might be a progressive, successful country. But you mentioned India when RoP has been the bane of India's secularism. RoP is the cause of terrorism, regressive mindset, divisions, partition of India, Kashmir problem etc. Indian people are reasonably tolerant I think.
Texan Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 This has always been a question I have had. While the constitution recognizes freedom of religion and if it is truly upheld, how is it possible that 99% of the population is Muslim. That sounds like a contradiction. It is not possible that a truly secular country has such a dominant majority religion.
AmreekanDesi Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Turkey might be a progressive' date=' successful country. But you mentioned India when RoP has been the bane of India's secularism. RoP is the cause of terrorism, regressive mindset, divisions, partition of India, Kashmir problem etc[b']. Indian people are reasonably tolerant I think. i didnt contest that. where did i say we are intolerant or anything liek that i just said secularism in turkey is better than in inda secularism basically means that religion plays minimal role in public sphere. in turkey that is the case (atleast until a few yrs ago) but in india, religon hasa part to play in every other major political debate. so in that sense turkey is more secular.
AmreekanDesi Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 This has always been a question I have had. While the constitution recognizes freedom of religion and if it is truly upheld' date=' how is it possible that 99% of the population is Muslim. That sounds like a contradiction. It is not possible that a truly secular country has such a dominant majority religion.[/quote'] my turkish friend says that a good chunck (lets say 20%) are agnostics or non practising muslims
randomGuy Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 i didnt contest that. where did i say we are intolerant or anything liek that i just said secularism in turkey is better than in inda secularism basically means that religion plays minimal role in public sphere. in turkey that is the case (atleast until a few yrs ago) but in india, religon hasa part to play in every other major political debate. so in that sense turkey is more secular. don't know man. Religion has started to feature in political debate of developed western countries since RoP entered those countries through immigrants. Does it mean these countries are less secular than Turkey?
Texan Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 my turkish friend says that a good chunck (lets say 20%) are agnostics or non practising muslims I see. Anyway, its a good thing to have any Muslim majority community to be committed to secularism. It is such a rare combination. But I would still wonder if it is a progressive state, what exactly stops non Muslims from immigrating to Turkey?
veer Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 For all the claims about Turkey being a secular Muslim country and centre for tolerance 1. Highest percentage of Muslim population in the world is in Turkey @ 99.9% 2. Armenian genocide and treatment of Armenian Christians in general, yet to apologize formally 3. Free passage for foreign ISIS fighters through Turkey 4. Reluctance to engage ISIS 5. Allowing ISIS to attack Kobane from its territory SHATTERS THAT MYTH Boss agar aap Indian ho to thoda time apni society sudharne me beeta do.... Turkey se to apne chacha ka bhi koyi rishta nai he to kyun hathoda maare
AmreekanDesi Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 don't know man. Religion has started to feature in political debate of developed western countries since RoP entered those countries through immigrants. Does it mean these countries are less secular than Turkey? US is. religion has always been a major part of its discourse. it only became secular officially as recently as the kennedy era btw i guess your point stands for western european countries but i dont have much experience there. only going by news
moniker Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 i didnt contest that. where did i say we are intolerant or anything liek that i just said secularism in turkey is better than in inda secularism basically means that religion plays minimal role in public sphere. in turkey that is the case (atleast until a few yrs ago) but in india, religon hasa part to play in every other major political debate. so in that sense turkey is more secular. Think you've got secularism wrong. Secularism means the state functions unattached to any religion. Political parties are free to have their religious affiliations, the constitution protects the secular framework of the country by preventing them from creating any law biased towards any specific religion if they attempt to do so.
Muloghonto Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 secularism, by its fundamental definition, means seperation of religion and state. Ie, religion will not be regulated or have any influence on policymaking. In that sense, there is no 100% secular state as religious nutters do need to be controlled/kept an eye on.
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