Kane williamson-Seriously underrated???

[Old guy]

In ODIs he will end up as an ATG(still needs to step up in ICC tourneys tough) but I don't think I am being harsh on Kohli in tests. He is a good batsman, nothing more here. Sanga away from home wasn't extraordinary(like Sachin) in his initial years but he always ended up with a mid 30s average. Never have I seen any batsman collapse the way Kohli did in England, he looked like a novice out there, Jimmy Anderson scored more runs than him over the course of 5 tests in spite of playing only half the innings' as Kohli.

I have ...see kallis and there are number of other examples but that is beside the point and I think we all have derailed this thread a bit :cantstop:

[Invasion 550]

Not in tests ..he is not even best Indian batsman currently in tests and that is easily Rahane .

Sorry sabby. Kohli is better than Rahane. Even shehzad is better than rahane. And that is not a bad thing. Shehzad is a top bat.

[Old guy]

Sorry sabby. Kohli is better than Rahane. Even shehzad is better than rahane. And that is not a bad thing. Shehzad is a top bat.

Ok.

[Invasion 550]

Ok.

If you disagree with me please check shehzad's stats in tests against rahane.

[adi B]

How on earth is Kohli above Vijay in test cricket?

for the starter,Kohli avgs 46,vijay 40 but that's not important as vijay's real class as a test batsman started since the aus series in home.in the last 2 years both Kohli and vijay have stepped up as test batsmen,but on tour to tour basis Kohli>vijay in saf,nzl and aus(only slightly) ,meanwhile vijay was by far our best bat in England.but then again comparing an opener with a #4 is not fair,vijay's importance and some of his knocks are worth in gold

[Invasion 550]

Ahmed Shehzad in tests. Average of 47.86 with the highest score being 176. Rahane in tests. Average of 44.87 with the highest score being 147. Both are brilliant bats with Shehzad slightly edging rahane.

[FischerTal]

Rahane tops the list out of all new age batsmen for me. He has played in the toughest conditions and survived everywhere. He was the main reason we won at lords. His average may be 45 now, but that's because he has only played one test at home. I expect him to cross 50 easily in the next two years maybe even 60 As far as I see 1) Rahane 2) smith/Williamson 4)root/vijay 6) kohli Honorable mention: braithwaite/ black wood from West Indies and Asad shafiq

[Gollum]

for the starter' date='Kohli avgs 46,vijay 40 but that's not important as vijay's real class as a test batsman started since the aus series in home.in the last 2 years both Kohli and vijay have stepped up as test batsmen,but on tour to tour basis Kohli>vijay in saf,nzl and aus(only slightly) ,meanwhile vijay was by far our best bat in England.[b']but then again comparing an opener with a #4 is not fair,vijay's importance and some of his knocks are worth in gold

This. Vijay's value as a batsman shouldn't be only about runs or average but the other qualities he brings to the team. He faces a lot of balls every innings thus helping the middle order by seeing of the new ball against fresh pacemen. The other opener almost always gets out early. Because of Vijay(and to an extent Pujara) blunting the initial onslaught Kohli walks in after 30 overs with the score reading 80/2 rather than coming in at 20/2 in the 1st 10 overs. Because of Vijay our middle order has been able to score freely against the semi new/old ball helping us amass tall scores.Contrast that to 2011/12 when Sehwag,Gambhir,Mukund etc would get out cheaply forcing Dravid and Sachin to face the newish ball, one of the main reasons why we were so pathetic in those 2 series. Vijay as an opener has surpassed Sehwag(genius, but very inconsistent outside SC) and Gambhir(flop show except an innings in RSA and NZ) and the value he brings to the team is indeed worth it's weight in gold as you said. Also his leaving the ball is legendary :cantstop:. In this era of T20 slogging very heartening to see a batsman leave with as much aplomb as Vijay, must be frustrating for opponent bowlers. Gavaskar too was a great leaver and that aspect of his batting irritated the likes of Imran(read his autobiography), Windians, Willis etc. What happens is that when Vijay leaves so many balls, it infuriates the bowlers and then their line starts drifting towards middle/leg to make the batsman play. Also all the effort into bumper balls is laid waste. This changes the line of the bowler and the likes of Kohli(who is a very strong legside player) can easily capitalize initially thus growing in confidence and he doesn't have to face too many balls in the corridor of uncertainty.

[Gollum]

Rahane tops the list out of all new age batsmen for me. He has played in the toughest conditions and survived everywhere. He was the main reason we won at lords. His average may be 45 now, but that's because he has only played one test at home. I expect him to cross 50 easily in the next two years maybe even 60 As far as I see 1) Rahane 2) smith/Williamson 4)root/vijay 6) kohli Honorable mention: braithwaite/ black wood from West Indies and Asad shafiq

You missed Matthews mate:winky:

[FischerTal]

You missed Matthews mate:winky:

Yea totally forgot him, he had a good tour of England, albeit it was only two test matches, so I can't rank him in the top list, probably with kohli haha

[Invasion 550]

Rahane tops the list out of all new age batsmen for me. He has played in the toughest conditions and survived everywhere. He was the main reason we won at lords. His average may be 45 now, but that's because he has only played one test at home. I expect him to cross 50 easily in the next two years maybe even 60 As far as I see 1) Rahane 2) smith/Williamson 4)root/vijay 6) kohli Honorable mention: braithwaite/ black wood from West Indies and Asad shafiq

Asad shafiq. :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[HippoSucks]

Vijay over Sehwag and Ashwin to bat for your life before Kohli? Are you all actually serious or joking (not obvious for me)?

[Gollum]

Ahmed Shehzad in tests. Average of 47.86 with the highest score being 176. Rahane in tests. Average of 44.87 with the highest score being 147. Both are brilliant bats with Shehzad slightly edging rahane.

Invasion please tell me you are joking. Rahane has played 13/14 tests in RSA,NZ,Eng,Aus while Selfie has played all his matches in the flat and familiar decks of UAE and Lanka(where he failed BTW). Rahane in spite of getting 7/8 wrong decisions in the 25 odd innings has a mighty impressive average of 49 in these countries with centuries in Eng,NZ,Aus and 96 in Jo'berg. How many Asian bats do you know who in their very 1st trip to these countries scored 100s in 3/4 countries?(I can think of only Sachin,Anwar,Sehwag who did this and Rahane has been even more consistent than these 3). Pakistan hasn't toured these countries in a long time and when they do you will understand why Shehzad's stats are so misleading, expect it to take a beating when that time comes. Even in the Pakistani line up he is the 6th best batsman behind YK,Misbah,Azhar,Shafiq and Sarfraz. Shafiq and Azhar are the next mainstays in your batting order, not Selfie who is a class below the above two. Comparing him to the best Asian youngsta beauty :winky:,Ajinkya is preposterous !!!

[mancalledsting]

Was impressive against India in his debut series.

He played well in the first two matches that were played on some of the flattest tracks I've ever seen but in the 3rd match he did sweet f all

[Gollum]

Vijay over Sehwag and Ashwin to bat for your life before Kohli? Are you all actually serious or joking (not obvious for me)?

The 2nd one(Ashwin over Kohli),I wasn't totally serious but some of the innings Ashwin has played when the chips were down(his 68 and 92* against Eng in Mumbai/Kolkata, 100 against WI in 2013, 40 and 46* in Manchester when whole top and middle order crumbled like dominoes, match saving 8* in MCG) are stuff which Kohli or for that matter any top order bat will be proud to achieve. In difficult conditions when odds are stacked up against our team I back Ashwin to shine, he excels in difficult conditions, and scores only difficult runs missing out on phattas:cantstop:. The 1st one I was talking about overseas. Sehwag, except for around 4-5 innings was a total letdown ,especially in RSA,Eng,NZ where he did nothing. He was above average in Aus, that's it. Vijay on the contrary did brilliantly in RSA,Eng,Aus and failed only in NZ. Best thing about Vijay is that even if he scores low plays out many balls helping the middle order, something that was against the nature of Viru's play. That said in SC, Sehwag is the greatest opener ever.:hatsoff:

[Bigg Brother]

Lol.. To my surprise it has reached Kohli vs Rahane in no time.. Statswise Kohli is better than Rahane but rahane edges over Kohli ATM only because of his heroics in 1st overseas tours... Many are being too harsh on Kohli.He is seriously short temperd that has affected his test game..Before England tour he used to attack the bowl always even in tests.Poor fellow realised after English tour that test cannot be played like that and has started leaving the ball.(Still he edges many). Rahane outclassed kohli in England tests otherwise both were on par for me.(Many don't count Kohli's century in NZ calling it useless and irrelevant to match result but it is not). And to criticize him on the basis of "only" New ball game is not fair... For the comparison you can aim at it that in which circumstances they came but he should not be criticized that much heavily. His No.was 5 before and 4 now and it is not his fault that he gets to play old ball. Did not the century in SA and NZ came when India was stuck at 25/2 and 10/2 respectively..?? Yes he is poor and has problem against moving ball but that shouldn't be aimed at solely..

[HippoSucks]

Don't you already know I do it care about stats ? Anyone who followed Indian team in last away tours knows what Rahane did and no amount of stats can change the fact vijay and Rahane were our best batsmen and kohli had very good tour of Australia but so did Rahane and vijay ..kohli scored more but other 2 never failed .

I didn't quote your post. How does the statistics show that Rahane and Vijay did better than Kohli in England? The statistics show that exactly. Don't put off statistics just because they support one thing you say and don't support another. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/277916.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/237095.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting You clearly said one series doesn't make one batsman better than another

Also one series does not make you better but over 4 thought away tours Rahane has done better and all of them were his first away tours .

Kohli had one terrible series against England but he did very well apart from that. Over the 4 overseas tours Rahane definitely did not do better than Kohli. In England Rahane outbatted Kohli. In all other three overseas tours (New Zealand, South Africa and obviously Australia), Kohli performed much better (although Rahane did well in all of them). So Rahane didn't fail in any of the 4 tours, but Kohli was better than him in 3 of them and failed in 1. As for Vijay, he didn't do well against New Zealand, South Africa, Sri Lanka and West Indies. Kohli did very well in all those tours except against West Indies. Out of the three batsman, over the four overseas tours, Rahane was the most consistent (he didn't fail in any of the tours). Kohli failed in one tour but outperformed both of the other batsman in the other 3 tours. Vijay didn't do well in 2 of those tours and performed decently in the other two. As of now, out of Rahane and Kohli, I would go with Kohli. Preferring Rahane (despite playing 7 less overseas tests than Kohli) is perfectly fine. But Vijay doesn't come close in terms of consistency.

[YCCC]

Not by us Yorkshire supporters he isn't. We know just how good he is after watching us as our overseas player for the last two years

[BeautifulGame]

I didn't quote your post. How does the statistics show that Rahane and Vijay did better than Kohli in England? The statistics show that exactly. Don't put off statistics just because they support one thing you say and don't support another. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/277916.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/237095.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting You clearly said one series doesn't make one batsman better than another Kohli had one terrible series against England but he did very well apart from that. Over the 4 overseas tours Rahane definitely did not do better than Kohli. In England Rahane outbatted Kohli. In all other three overseas tours (New Zealand, South Africa and obviously Australia), Kohli performed much better (although Rahane did well in all of them). So Rahane didn't fail in any of the 4 tours, but Kohli was better than him in 3 of them and failed in 1. As for Vijay, he didn't do well against New Zealand, South Africa, Sri Lanka and West Indies. Kohli did very well in all those tours except against West Indies. Out of the three batsman, over the four overseas tours, Rahane was the most consistent (he didn't fail in any of the tours). Kohli failed in one tour but outperformed both of the other batsman in the other 3 tours. Vijay didn't do well in 2 of those tours and performed decently in the other two. As of now, out of Rahane and Kohli, I would go with Kohli. Preferring Rahane (despite playing 7 less overseas tests than Kohli) is perfectly fine. But Vijay doesn't come close in terms of consistency.

No Kohli didn't out bat Rahane in New Zealand .Rahane scored runs when it matter whereas the Kohli 100 came when the series was over on a flat wkt . Rahane was better than Kohli in the New Zealand tour .

[Bigg Brother]

No Kohli didn't out bat Rahane in New Zealand .Rahane scored runs when it matter whereas the Kohli 100 came when the series was over on a flat wkt . Rahane was better than Kohli in the New Zealand tour .

I think both scored hunderd in a same match... Kohli's knock was not as good as rahane but it wasn't worthless anyway..Surely it was over for India but Whitewash was still on the card. We are synonymous of "collapse" in tests for last few years regardless nature of the pitch..India couldn't even face 50 overs in England in 2-3 innings. So it wasn't useless knock when he batted for almost 50 overs with Nohit to draw the match!!