Crime against women in India | Discussion thread

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

Some very recent cases. Read and feel the pain.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/rape-murder-of-minor-near-shimla-cops-clueless-cm-announces-rs-5-lakh-for-victim-s-family/story-szepjsbLevwmp7Oartr6UK_amp.html

 

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/minor-girl-gang-raped-udupi-while-waiting-bus-allegedly-3-drivers-65066

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/05/india-men-gang-rape-woman-smash-skull-bricks-170515070236159.html

 

https://www.google.com/amp/m.timesofindia.com/india/delhis-continuing-horror-8-yr-olds-among-3-raped/amp_articleshow/59519338.cms

 

 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

Madarssa chhap wishing rape on my family. Expected.

I did not wish. You cannot even read and you call me a Madarsa chap. You are one. I said if it ever happens. The per capita rape in india is not 0, so there will be a certain probability of anyone getting raped. Simple math, Mr stats expert.

 

Kabhi maths seekhna ho to batana. bhai bahut tez rahe hain maths mein. 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye

[randomGuy]

18 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

.

 

Kabhi maths seekhna ho to batana. bhai bahut tez rahe hain maths mein. Bade bade exam crack maare hain.

 

Kon Kon se exam? Genuinely interested.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

8 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Kon Kon se exam? Genuinely interested.

sending a personal message to you. And request to end discussion on me. Woh to bhai stats ka gyaan de rahe the, Maine bhi thoda probability ka de diya

 

sent

Edited July 13, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye

[rkt.india]

58 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

I did not wish. You cannot even read and you call me a Madarsa chap. You are one. I said if it ever happens. The per capita rape in india is not 0, so there will be a certain probability of anyone getting raped. Simple math, Mr stats expert.

 

Kabhi maths seekhna ho to batana. bhai bahut tez rahe hain maths mein. Bade bade exam crack maare hain.

 

you live in Canada?

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

you live in Canada?

Not anymore. Spent two years in Toronto in the last decade. Lovely place. Would love to settle there someday. Don't want to reveal more about myself. I respect the forum but want to keep some privacy.

[rkt.india]

46 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Not anymore. Spent two years in Toronto in the last decade. Lovely place. Would love to settle there someday. Don't want to reveal more about myself. I respect the forum but want to keep some privacy.

you think Canada is safe and rape free? 

• 1 in 4 North American women will be sexually assaulted during their lifetime

http://www.sexassault.ca/statistics.htm

 

 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

35 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

So you think Canada is safe and rape free? 

• 1 in 4 North American women will be sexually assaulted during their lifetime

http://www.sexassault.ca/statistics.htm

 

 

No I don't think so it is rape free but the cops will come within no time and rapists are more likely to be caught. Have also heard of shootings on King street despite strict gun laws. Not the reasons I want to be there. I have been there twice. There are other benefits I enjoyed in Canada.  Professional life was excellent both the times. Diversity. Food. Openness by their leadership. Healthcare. Retirement plans. Places to visit. Snow. Responsive govt institutions. Rath yatra. Festival of India. Downtown was safe for walks even at night. I do not know how Canada plans to curb rapes but in my two years there, I did not hear much about rapes. 

 

What is your point though. If Canada is bad, we should not improve ourselves. Is there something in the stats above which will tell some states to look at states which have lower numbers. What have some states done to have low numbers. What have some states not done. Do we lack police or a 911 type facility. What have states or central govt done to keep up to the promise of women's security? 

 

This is only rape. Domestic violence against women goes unreported in India.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye

[rkt.india]

On 6/11/2017 at 4:27 PM, zen said:

If you had used logic, you would not have banked on fallacies in your post 

 

No one has claimed that xyz or whatever country  has zero crimes. Where ever there are humans, there will be crimes. Saying that crime is everywhere is not the solution and probably displays hints of the infamous "chalta hai" attitude in Ind

 

Ind is turning in to a dangerous place for women, who get raped and murderdered. A place where just taking a cab or asking for a ride has landed women in trouble

 

Let's not present stats as if everything in Ind gets reported relatively speaking. To solve a problem, the first step is to acknowlede it. While people in Ind may not realise it, from the outside it does appear scary

Is there a solution to this problem?

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

No I don't think so it is rape free but the cops will come within no time and rapists are more likely to be caught. Have also heard of shootings on King street despite strict gun laws. Not the reasons I want to be there. I have been there twice. There are other benefits I enjoyed in Canada.  Professional life was excellent both the times. Diversity. Food. Openness by their leadership. Healthcare. Retirement plans. Places to visit. Snow. Responsive govt institutions. Rath yatra. Festival of India. Downtown was safe for walks even at night. I do not know how Canada plans to curb rapes but in my two years there, I did not hear much about rapes. 

 

What is your point though. If Canada is bad, we should not improve ourselves. Is there something in the stats above which will tell some states to look at states which have lower numbers. What have some states done to have low numbers. What have some states not done. Do we lack police or a 911 type facility. What have states or central govt done to keep up to the promise of women's security? 

 

This is only rape. Domestic violence against women goes unreported in India.

Does it even matter what happens after such a crime is done? It is done. Catching a criminal wont change what happened.

[jusarrived]

2 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

No I don't think so it is rape free but the cops will come within no time and rapists are more likely to be caught. Have also heard of shootings on King street despite strict gun laws. Not the reasons I want to be there. I have been there twice. There are other benefits I enjoyed in Canada.  Professional life was excellent both the times. Diversity. Food. Openness by their leadership. Healthcare. Retirement plans. Places to visit. Snow. Responsive govt institutions. Rath yatra. Festival of India. Downtown was safe for walks even at night. I do not know how Canada plans to curb rapes but in my two years there, I did not hear much about rapes. 

 

What is your point though. If Canada is bad, we should not improve ourselves. Is there something in the stats above which will tell some states to look at states which have lower numbers. What have some states done to have low numbers. What have some states not done. Do we lack police or a 911 type facility. What have states or central govt done to keep up to the promise of women's security? 

 

This is only rape. Domestic violence against women goes unreported in India.

 

4 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

I did not wish. You cannot even read and you call me a Madarsa chap. You are one. I said if it ever happens. The per capita rape in india is not 0, so there will be a certain probability of anyone getting raped. Simple math, Mr stats expert.

 

Kabhi maths seekhna ho to batana. bhai bahut tez rahe hain maths mein. 

 

 

So how does that change anything ? Women feel safe in Canada cos they know cops will come and catch the rapist ? 

[jusarrived]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Does it even matter what happens after such a crime is done? It is done. Catching a criminal wont change what happened.

exactly !!

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

27 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Does it even matter what happens after such a crime is done? It is done. Catching a criminal wont change what happened.

It will deter future crimes. The fear of getting caught is more in Canada.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

33 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

 

So how does that change anything ? Women feel safe in Canada cos they know cops will come and catch the rapist ? 

You tell me why they feel safer in Canada than India. I dont know the reason. I dont know if women do feel safer in Canada. But why this discussion about Canada. The topic was rapes in India.

 

On the second point you put in bold, it is simple math.  What is the question on that?

Edited July 13, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye

[BeautifulGame]

India has been characterised as one of the "countries with the lowest per capita rates of rape" 

 

Delhi has lower crime rate than NewYork 

 

USA has 16 times more rapes than in India. Even if 50% of the rape cases in India are not reported, and all in USA are reported, they are still 8 times unsafe.

 

 

Surprised? We have the lowest number of rapes?

 

2 rapes per 100,000 people for India compared to

 

28.6 rapes/100,000 people for US and

 

24.1 rapes / 100,000 people for UK

 

Well the best counter argument to it is that rapes and crimes against women in India is under reportedunder reported.

 

It is estimated that only 53% of rape crimes are reported in India.

 

But a UN study estimates just 11% of rape and sexual assault cases worldwide are ever reported.

 

10% in France , 18.3% in USA , and 15% in UK and 13% in Europe are ever reported, rest remain unreported.

 

Also, in UK, 26% of all sexual offences (including rape) reported to police are not even recorded as crimes.

 

In some places in USA, the victims were forced to take a polygraph test before rape is reported.(Edit: this is banned now)

 

Rape in all countries are drastically under-reported.

 

The other counter argument is that the conviction rates are lowconviction rates are low in India.

 

India has 24.2% conviction rate for rape cases.

 

In UK 7% of reported rapes result in conviction.

 

In US 18% of reported rape cases involving women result in conviction.

 

Conviction rates are better in India than in many western countries.

 

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-the-USA-and-Europe-are-more-unsafe-in-terms-of-rape-for-women-compared-to-India/answers/36662850?share=e53361d0&srid=ouZu

 

[Vilander]

On 7/9/2017 at 4:43 PM, Gollum said:

He was hiding behind a Hindu name till 4 months back. When she came to know he was a Muslim she started ignoring him on advice of her parents. So  he threatened her parents, assaulted her in a bus forcing the family to lodge a case with the police. But apparently the effing police were too lazy to even lodge an FIR, all they did was go to his house but he wasn't there, so they stopped bothering after that. What's more he is a serial criminal with a penchant for stealing bikes since the age of 17, initiated into this dhanda by his uncle, what's with these peaceful men and bike stealing, they steal a hell a lot of bikes here in Bengaluru as well !!!  What's more this girl loved to take rides on his stolen high end bikes in Delhi and she even bailed him out once when he was caught by the police. He has been in jail 4 times and it seems she knew about this. How can an educated middle class Hindu girl from a conservative family fall for these cheapos. Even on the fateful day she met him after he called her, lying to her parents that she was going to a shop to buy maggi. Her dad was in tears yesterday, saying that if he knew it was him she was going to meet, he would have protected her. Heartbreaking story and a lesson to many girls all across India. And dunno what many people feel, I feel love jihad in some form is prevalent in our society. Rightwingers may exaggerate it and plant some fake stories but I do believe it is there in some form, not just Hindu girls but even Christian girls(Kerala, Karnataka) are prime targets for the peacefuls.

must be so difficult for the parents, they raise a baby to be a bright young person, and some low life does this to her.

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, sarchasm said:

GTFO here wanting me to explain your agenda. Nobody here is blind to that.

 

Now back to your comical post. Your anecdotal point about your fictional clients not wanting to visit India counts for a big fat zilch. Your rant about money earning and rape not being comparable is hilarious because NOBODY said they are. What is comparable is the COUNTING methodology, and both crime and wealth are UNIVERSALLY counted on a per capita basis. I mean, what do you even do with your life? With such basic illiteracy, you won't qualify for the job of a chapraasi.

 

I thought of taking up this opportunity to teach you a few things about how stats are collated and interpreted, but it would be a waste. Nevertheless, generous as I am, here's a homework for you to improve your critical thinking faculty. Go and look up countries with a per capita income and inequality index similar to India and tell me how India fares with them when it comes to crime, specifically rape. As an additional exercise, look up the global tourism and travel ranking of countries and tell me how many countries with a per capital income similar to India are ranked above us.

 

NB: Remember not to trust data from perverse islamic countries because their law of allah mandates women need three witnesses to prove rape, and failing that, women themselves become liable to punishment for extra marital relationships. We are talking about civilized countries and democracies like India.

And it has to be percapita ppp to be fair , if you are relating socioeconomic reasons for crime.

[Tibarn]

9 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Money earning and rape cannot be compared. What as per you is my agenda. How did you come to know my agenda. Look at it anyway, the sufferings of women do not go down. You seem too worried about reputations. More than rapist we are known as a poor country. There is a fear of rape also. Clients who travel to India ask how safe it is, which places to avoid to not get raped.

What do you expect when atrocity literature makes the new/is posted constantly. If some people stop peddling atrocity literature as news, then foreigners wouldn't be so scared. 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

50 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

What do you expect when atrocity literature makes the new/is posted constantly. If some people stop peddling atrocity literature as news, then foreigners wouldn't be so scared. 

Not that I agree but fair point if one is worried about reputations. I would aim to highlight every crime happening in India to every nook and corner. That will motivate us to correct it than hide it. I am not worried about global reputations in the case of rapes.

 

 Though I am sure others have faced this too, even if the case of my client is one off, it will hurt to hear such a thing from any foreigner. 

 

My "agenda" for lack of a better word is to find out what are we doing to correct this problem. Have some states done better. Have some done poor. Why is MP so high. I belong to Haryana. Cannot believe the number for Haryana is so low. Most of the Gurgaon rape cases have been traced to Haryana. Is there something which they have done to keep the number low.  What are state governments and GOI doing on their promise of women's security. Of all things this cannot be dumped into the bracket of fake pre poll promises. Why will stuff like Amber Alert or 911 not work in India. The statistics is for victims from 6 years old. Read again. 6 years. isnt that alarming for all of us to accept this as a problem to correct than say it happens everywhere.

 

Not a single post on actions taken by India or any state govt to correct this problem. 

 

thankfully mods merged the topics. I had not seen the crime discussion on women earlier. Glad that at least some accept this as a problem. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye

[Tibarn]

 

1 hour ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Not that I agree but fair point if one is worried about reputations. I would aim to highlight every crime happening in India to every nook and corner. That will motivate us to correct it than hide it. I am not worried about global reputations in the case of rapes.

 

 Though I am sure others have faced this too, even if the case of my client is one off, it will hurt to hear such a thing from any foreigner. 

What is there to agree/disagree with? You stated earlier that 

Quote

Clients who travel to India ask how safe it is, which places to avoid to not get raped.

If your clients aren't Indian, they only get information from their own media. Their media gets stories from our media,  particularly English media. The whole narrative about India being dangerous for women in terms of rapes emerged around the time when Nirbhaya happened and it made national news in India, along with the protests becoming national news, and then atrocity films like India's Daughter were made smearing India as the "rape capital of the world." 

 

Unless your clients know something Indians themselves don't, what exactly is the basis of being afraid to travel to India? Gollum already posted the objective data.

Based off 2010 data, India's rate is 1.8/100k people, Canada is 1.7/100k people. India is 12th lowest in the world by 2010 numbers. Lower than any of our padosi countries , lower than China, lower than US, etc. The rate in India is lower than all but 11 countries based off the 2010 data. BeautifulGame already posted this which shows the extent to which India's data is estimated to be under-reported. 

Quote

It is estimated that only 53% of rape crimes are reported in India

Increasing India's rate by 53% makes the true rate 2.754/100k people. Assuming no other country under-reports rape (which is laughable), India would still be lower in rapes than all but 18 countries on the list of fewest rapes/100k people. 

 

Anyone who is afraid to come to India based off of fears of being raped, is not basing that fear on any numbers. The fear is entirely because of either: (1) how India is portrayed in foreign media or (2) their own prejudice against Indians. If those clients were worried about a rape threat, then they would never travel to most of Europe, China, the US, and some other 160+ countries with worse rates of rape than India. 

 

We all agree rapes need to be 0, as soon as possible, but smearing India as some place where rape is uncontrollable does nothing to solve the issue. 

2 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

 isnt that alarming for all of us to accept this as a problem to correct than say it happens everywhere.

I don't think anyone says we should just accept the problem as part of life and shouldn't solve it. However, if you use foreigners being afraid to travel to India as the basis for saying India has a "rape problem", then people are going to point out the actual data that shows that this is something we, as a country, fare comparatively better on than the rest of the world. 

 

Every country, including India, has a rape problem. The rape problem is: any rape rate higher than 0 is too large, and any total larger than 0 is too much; almost everyone will agree with that.   

Quote

What are state governments and GOI doing on their promise of women's security. Of all things this cannot be dumped into the bracket of fake pre poll promises. 

...

The statistics is for victims from 6 years old

Government ministries, state and central level, are supposed to publish what they are doing and the statistics on their websites, thus that is something you will have to look into. They don't hold press conferences where they announce what they are doing. This is the case everywhere. If one is concerned about the issue, then they have to look into it themselves. 

 

The National Crime Records Bureau most likely has current statistics on their website, you will have to search it to find more current data. 

http://ncrb.nic.in/

 

Quote

Why will stuff like Amber Alert or 911 not work in India.

India already has emergency numbers like 911, how effective they are, I don't know.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/112-to-become-Indias-911-emergency-number/articleshow/51594840.cms

Quote

India has decided to adopt `112' as the national emergency number, similar to `911' in the US and `999' in the UK, with the inter-ministerial telecom commission giving a go-ahead to the move.

The roll-out of `112' may see a gradual phase-out of existing emergency numbers like 100 (for police), 101 (fire), 102 (ambulance) and 108 (disaster management), though they will continue to be in operation for at least a year.

The article is from May 2016.

 

The Amber Alert system, which is for missing(abducted) children, I'm only familiar with the US version, so I assume that is the one you are talking about. The FBI manages it in the US. I don't know if India has a comparable alert system, whether that alert system would be effective, or if we have a truly comparable organization to FBI. However, the amber alert system requires access to phones, as the alert goes directly as a text and a alarm siren to people's phones in the US, with the message stating what the authorities are looking for. I don't think we have sufficient cell phone penetration thus far for an effective amber alert system, outside of maybe the more developed states. 

 

Quote

Have some states done better. Have some done poor. Why is MP so high. I belong to Haryana. Cannot believe the number for Haryana is so low. Most of the Gurgaon rape cases have been traced to Haryana. Is there something which they have done to keep the number low.  

The statistics will show that some states do better and some do worse, but it would take a lot of effort to research to find out what are the differences between the states in how they deal with this issue. You aren't likely going to get an easy answer on ICF, rather someone will have to dive deep into each states government's home ministry websites, etc to find out the differences.