Would you experiment with Hardik Pandya at No 6 for NZ ODI series

[maniac]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Let me Start by saying i know Pandya is raw and extremely inconsistent and there is a structure to bring players up but there is a thing called Fast tracking that has also been there. Some exceptions are being made in past and would be made in future also. In case of Pandya that can be and should be made. Why?????????

 

Cause Indian Team Desperately needs a quick Seaming all rounder and Hard hitter. Its the need of the hour

 

Now, Irony just Died in a big way with ur IPL comment. Arent you the one who every test n odi keeps bringing Rohit sharma's great off spin talent on basis of one Ipl hattrick some 7-8 yrs ago. Atleast Pandya's perfomance have been recent and a lot more than one fluke Hattrick. 

Irony Twin also died where you are questioning when you are questioning his domestic record when u want Rohit to be a 5th bowling option with his terrible terrible first class bowling record. 

 

Now, about his batting technique well yes there are a lot of loops holes but the question mark on hi batting perfomances isnt valid either. 1st u need to revisit that 79 knock he recently played on Aus- A tour on a green pitch where the team was drooling on 46/6 and he played that knock on pitch which had some grass. Also at domestic level he has played knock that have been gritty . LAst one the most recent where he made 47 and grinded for 157 balls.

Please revisit the 79 knock here is the link

http://www.bcci.tv/videos/id/2542/india-a-tour-of-australia-2nd-unofficial-test-day-1-highlights

 

About his 5-50s well he has played a season or season n half max dont expect much. 

 

when we compare stokes n faulkner one thing we need to understand our domestic structure isnt even half as good as of england n australia. Comparing them ashwin, jadeja, bhuvi would also be wrong as they had one skilled developed and they worked on their other skill due to number of games they had in domestic and international.

 

Correctly Pandya is neither here or there but he has every requirement ticked in terms of ability and in case and exception should be made. Certainly when he is picked already then give him a proper chance, some player are confidence players and he seems to be one. HE certainly has the ability to place n bounce the problem comes when the ball moves which will happen to our top order to. 

He is extremely inconsistent and he has other issues but thats what he has to gain with experience the game sense. Either we groom him over international level or leave him domestic on weird pitches facing trundler army  or make an exception and train on bigger level which has been done with many players in past. HE does well or he fails would ultimately depend on his own temperament and hunger. Next year there would be overseas tour as well, with many injuries he has a chance to gain experience. 

 

About test matches Come overseas we ll need a batting all rounder or an all rounder, unfortunately none of our batsman bowl neither does the upcoming batsman like Pandey, nair or iyer does. So Pandya becomes extremely crucial or else we are stuck with binny n rishi. 

 

And hows successfully has Raina done the job of grinder that we fear Pandya's failure . ???????????

 

 

 

I just made another thread where I talked about how we need to induct young exciting talent like England and with Pandya I have absolutely no problem with him getting a shot...but here is where it gets confusing with him....What are his strengths.....Is he a bowler who can bat or is he a batsman who can bowl?

 

Woakes is a bowler who can bat...He opens the bowling or bowls first change and bats at 8 or 9.......Stokes bats at 6 and sometimes 5 and can bowl so that would make him a batsman who can bowl.

 

Faulkner is one of the main LOI bowlers for Australia who can hit big.

 

It has nothing to do with domestic structure. Every successful allrounder who has ever played the game was in the side because he could make it to the side on 1 ability alone.

 

Forget legends and greats of the game....Ashwin will not be in the side  if he is an average bowler who gets the odd 2-3 wickets and has 4 Test 100's.....Ashwin is in the side as a bowler first and since he happens to be a very talented batsman he is used at 6 or 7.

 

Jadeja was brought in with the same theory just like Pandya and he was a disaster for many many years till he became a world class bowler.

 

Irfan Pathan got messed up because we wanted him to be good in every department too fast.

 

Ok fair enough if Pandya played a clutch knock against Aus A...but would you trust him to come in at 50/5 against quality bowling attacks? Does he have the technique for that?

 

Would you trust him to take wickets with the new ball or be tight in slog overs or defend 10+ runs in the last over...DOn't bring the Bangladesh game because it was Bangladesh that choked badly...it was a horribly ordinary over.

 

Pandya needs to show that he has it in him to be good in one department....luckily and to be fair to him, he has potential in 2 departments that the Indian team is lacking-Power hitting low down the order and fast bowling which has been an eternal problem....so sure needs to be given a chance I am not or will never be against potential players getting a shot.....but still the question is what is he really good at,apart from fielding?

Edited October 14, 2016 by maniac

[tweaker]

Dharamshala pitch will be ideal for Pandya as it will provide him some help.

Dhoni should show some confidence in his abilities& should make him bat above no 6 in atleast 1 of the odi

[Ankit_sharma03]

19 minutes ago, maniac said:

It has nothing to do with domestic structure. Every successful allrounder who has ever played the game was in the side because he could make it to the side on 1 ability alone.

 

Forget legends and greats of the game....Ashwin will not be in the side  if he is an average bowler who gets the odd 2-3 wickets and has 4 Test 100's.....Ashwin is in the side as a bowler first and since he happens to be a very talented batsman he is used at 6 or 7.

 

Jadeja was brought in with the same theory just like Pandya and he was a disaster for many many years till he became a world class bowler.

 

Irfan Pathan got messed up because we wanted him to be good in every department too fast.

 

Ok fair enough if Pandya played a clutch knock against Aus A...but would you trust him to come in at 50/5 against quality bowling attacks? Does he have the technique for that?

 

Would you trust him to take wickets with the new ball or be tight in slog overs or defend 10+ runs in the last over...DOn't bring the Bangladesh game because it was Bangladesh that choked badly...it was a horribly ordinary over.

 

Pandya needs to show that he has it in him to be good in one department....luckily and to be fair to him, he has potential in 2 departments that the Indian team is lacking-Power hitting low down the order and fast bowling which has been an eternal problem....so sure needs to be given a chance I am not or will never be against potential players getting a shot.....but still the question is what is he really good at,apart from fielding?

Domestic structire has to do with the development of the player and we just have 3 yrs left for WC and overseas tour before them are also extremely crucial . 

 

Irfan pathan messed coz of not developing other skill but becoz of messing up with his action over the years. 

 

Fair enough question about trusting pandya, but thats what the point m raising what has raina n jadeja done when we are 50/5 nothing absolutely nothing . Scored once in blue moon which he also can. So again my question how worse can he do at best he is providing more overs only. 

 

No i dont trust him to give even 10 overs, that were read my thread starter i have mentioned he cant give u 10 overs so we need the 6th bowler so why not try making him a 6th bowler and bat him at 6, coz i only expect 5-7 overs from him. This series has given us a chance to experiment. I wont have said this if we had batsman like Sachin, sehwag, yuvi or ganguly who cud bowl or we had full strength bowling lineup.

 

As far as potential i say he has it in all 3 dept.  He can only show it or Fail when given a chance. 

This series fortunately or unfortunately has given a chance to try this out. In future ill bat him at 7 only but for this series at 6 coz i would like to give him few more over to bat and as 6th bowler few less overs to bowl. 

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Why can't we play both Pandya and  Jadhav ?

So u mean Jadhav plays at 6 n Pandya at 7

Fair enough but as i said i have no faith in pandya as 5th bowler, and my other bowlers are dhawal, mishra, bumrah and AXar/jadhav well thats look damn week damn week and if one of them have off days none in top 6 can bowl

 

Dew and inexp, batting tracks of mohali n dharamshala u can imagine the high percentage of any one bowler having a bad day add to that jadhav, mishra n bumrah's poor fielding. 

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Fair enough question about trusting pandya, but thats what the point m raising what has raina n jadeja done when we are 50/5 nothing absolutely nothing . Scored once in blue moon which he also can. So again my question how worse can he do at best he is providing more overs only. 

 

No i dont trust him to give even 10 overs, that were read my thread starter i have mentioned he cant give u 10 overs so we need the 6th bowler so why not try making him a 6th bowler and bat him at 6, coz i only expect 5-7 overs from him. This series has given us a chance to experiment. I wont have said this if we had batsman like Sachin, sehwag, yuvi or ganguly who cud bowl or we had full strength bowling lineup.

 

As far as potential i say he has it in all 3 dept.  He can only show it or Fail when given a chance. 

This series fortunately or unfortunately has given a chance to try this out. In future ill bat him at 7 only but for this series at 6 coz i would like to give him few more over to bat and as 6th bowler few less overs to bowl. 

 

That is a valid point but bhai that is my point also......Raina or Yuvraj before him were pure batsman with lots of potential.....They were fast tracked based on their immense "BATTING" Potential and skill.

 

Again I am ok with players getting Fast tracked

 

If Raina has failed...fill his slot with another exciting young batsman.....Pandya would have been ok if he had set the world on fire with his batting but there is nothing that tells me that he can take over from a specialist batsman especially when the ones before him like Raina and Yuvraj had supreme talent in the batting department...did they wash out is a different debate.

 

You yourself and I am not singling you out but no one has confidence in Pandya's bowling ability at the moment...only some potential there.

 

Having said that Pandya experiment should happen when we have a full strength team where even if he bats at 3 and gets out others can handle it....at 6 with a rookie team will be a recipe for disaster.

 

Once again I hope Pandya does well but at this moment...I absolutely see no scope in him to make it at the international level......Has the tools and potential but long way to go.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

So u mean Jadhav plays at 6 n Pandya at 7

Fair enough but as i said i have no faith in pandya as 5th bowler, and my other bowlers are dhawal, mishra, bumrah and AXar/jadhav well thats look damn week damn week and if one of them have off days none in top 6 can bowl

 

Dew and inexp, batting tracks of mohali n dharamshala u can imagine the high percentage of any one bowler having a bad day add to that jadhav, mishra n bumrah's poor fielding. 

Pandya can be tried at No.5 in a couple of games. That will give him more scope to get set and build his innings.

 

Regarding our bowling....what options do we have  ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Pandya can be tried at No.5 in a couple of games. That will give him more scope to get set and build his innings.

 

Regarding our bowling....what options do we have  ?

The only other option is dont play pandya n have mandeep or jadhav and 6 when raina comes he comes at 6

Or hope pandya gives u 10 overs every game n other bowlers dnt have a bad game in 5 games which is very unlikely to happen

 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

The only other option is dont play pandya n have mandeep or jadhav and 6 when raina comes he comes at 6

Or hope pandya gives u 10 overs every game n other bowlers dnt have a bad game in 5 games which is very unlikely to happen

 

Who will be our 5th bowler then  if there is no Pandya  ?

 

Also...we have to develop Pandya for WC and CT  in England.

 

Another thing is....from the A tour to Australia, it seems that Pandya is bowling with a lot more accuracy now.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

20 minutes ago, maniac said:

That is a valid point but bhai that is my point also......Raina or Yuvraj before him were pure batsman with lots of potential.....They were fast tracked based on their immense "BATTING" Potential and skill.

 

Again I am ok with players getting Fast tracked

 

If Raina has failed...fill his slot with another exciting young batsman.....Pandya would have been ok if he had set the world on fire with his batting but there is nothing that tells me that he can take over from a specialist batsman especially when the ones before him like Raina and Yuvraj had supreme talent in the batting department...did they wash out is a different debate.

 

You yourself and I am not singling you out but no one has confidence in Pandya's bowling ability at the moment...only some potential there.

 

Having said that Pandya experiment should happen when we have a full strength team where even if he bats at 3 and gets out others can handle it....at 6 with a rookie team will be a recipe for disaster.

 

Once again I hope Pandya does well but at this moment...I absolutely see no scope in him to make it at the international level......Has the tools and potential but long way to go.

My point is only with this series only, now there is no point of saying trying him on international team or not. Well he is already in the squad

Yes i agree pandya experiment would make more sense with full strength but thats not the case now. 

 

But injuries has provided us a chance to try that may be for one game only, coz raina wud be back by next game. 

 

See with Yuvi n raina there also gave u overs, right now India teams needs a 6th bowler to . Unfortunately none of our young batsman like sarfraz, samson, mandeep, jadhav bowl . 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Who will be our 5th bowler then  if there is no Pandya  ?

 

Also...we have to develop Pandya for WC and CT  in England.

 

Another thing is....from the A tour to Australia, it seems that Pandya is bowling with a lot more accuracy now.  

Axar thats what i mean drop him play axar , With axar 10 overs are for sure most days

Yes we need to but he will also take time n we cant loose series also , that is why i suggested we can take a gamble with batting co top 5 are enough n axar, pandya, mishra n yadav isnt a bad tail

But risking with bowling is to much

 

With Aus-A tour that pitches offered him bounce which helps his length, Indian pitches makes that length ideal to hit. As m repeating there would be dew heavy dew in north. So ill have him as 6th bolwer and play axar, yadav, mishra, dhawal bumrah or yadav incase of extra fast bowler. If my top order well even if raina was dere even he wouldnt have saved us. 

 

Its all permutation and combination, every line up has an issue , every combination has a problem. It wud be truly as u said hit n trial

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Axar thats what i mean drop him play axar , With axar 10 overs are for sure most days

Yes we need to but he will also take time n we cant loose series also , that is why i suggested we can take a gamble with batting co top 5 are enough n axar, pandya, mishra n yadav isnt a bad tail

But risking with bowling is to much

 

With Aus-A tour that pitches offered him bounce which helps his length, Indian pitches makes that length ideal to hit. As m repeating there would be dew heavy dew in north. So ill have him as 6th bolwer and play axar, yadav, mishra, dhawal bumrah or yadav incase of extra fast bowler. If my top order well even if raina was dere even he wouldnt have saved us. 

 

Its all permutation and combination, every line up has an issue , every combination has a problem. It wud be truly as u said hit n trial

 

What will be your playing  11   ?

[maniac]

Here is my playing X1 based on who Dhoni will play

Rohit

Rahane

V.Kohli

M.Pandey

Mandeep Singh

MSD

A.Patel

H.Pandya

J.Bumrah

A.Mishra

U.Yadav

 

 

I think he will go with the experienced Yadav over Dhawal.....Is J.Yadav an allrounder too?

 

So 4 bowlers+Pandya+Mandeep/Raina while Axar and Pandya considered allrounders to add to batting depth

 

Once Raina comes back....Mandeep will most likely  be dropped .

 

Once Raina comes back this will be the X1

Rohit

Rahane

Virat

Pandey

Raina

MSD

Patel

Pandya

Mishra

Bumrah

Yadav

[Ankit_sharma03]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

What will be your playing  11   ?

Game 1

 

Rohit

Rahane

Kohli

Pandey

Dhoni

Hardik

Axar

Jayant

Mishra

Dhawal

Bumrah

 

Umesh comes in , in case of bounce in pitch, small ground or dew. That does make the tail look long but i ahve enough faith in top 5 and flat dharamshala pitch . What i dnt have faith in is our bowling n Dew

With this i also put axar n jayant batting ability to test

 

This is for game one only. Once raina returns he ll play, but i wud like to give hardik a chance in that scenario

 

M pretty sure mandeep wud play and axar wud at 7 in final 11 when team is announced.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[adi B]

Needs to slotted @7 ,he's not reliable enough to bat before 7.gotta play him,2 pacers and 2 spinners

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Here is my playing X1 based on who Dhoni will play

Rohit

Rahane

V.Kohli

M.Pandey

Mandeep Singh

MSD

A.Patel

H.Pandya

J.Bumrah

A.Mishra

U.Yadav

 

I like this side, mandeep n umesh adds up to fielding side. I like Mandeep as a hitter how i wish he could bowl a few overs. 

But umesh n pandya in only 5 bowlers on dharamshala Patta with NZ hitter and Dew scares me tooo. 

I hope We chase

[maniac]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I like this side, mandeep n umesh adds up to fielding side. I like Mandeep as a hitter how i wish he could bowl a few overs. 

But umesh n pandya in only 5 bowlers on dharamshala Patta with NZ hitter and Dew scares me tooo. 

I hope We chase

The next option is Dhawal which is even more scarier...at least Umesh might get that odd wicket taking yorker...also did very well in the flat pitches of the WC where there was some bounce...if it is a patta with Bounce I think he will be the safer bet with his extra pace.

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 minutes ago, maniac said:

The next option is Dhawal which is even more scarier...at least Umesh might get that odd wicket taking yorker...also did very well in the flat pitches of the WC where there was some bounce...if it is a patta with Bounce I think he will be the safer bet with his extra pace.

Yea thats another one of my point dhawal is also scary, Bumarh doesnt give me confidence with new ball

Mishra if being attacked looses plot

Axar has been figured out by other team

Jayant is new

 

Thats where i need th cushion of 6th bowler

 

Rohit kohli rahane pandey dhoni on flat tracks are enoughbut cannot bowl at all , jayant, mishra, axar, pandya all can bat atleast 

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Yea thats another one of my point dhawal is also scary, Bumarh doesnt give me confidence with new ball

Mishra if being attacked looses plot

Axar has been figured out by other team

Jayant is new

 

Thats where i need th cushion of 6th bowler

 

Rohit kohli rahane pandey dhoni on flat tracks are enoughbut cannot bowl at all , jayant, mishra, axar, pandya all can bat atleast 

Fixed it  but needs to be given more opportunities.

 

Jayant Yadav has a FC 200  ...if he is a genuine spinner and not a darter like Axar then who knows might add to our batting depth along with quality bowling

Edited October 14, 2016 by maniac

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Fixed it  but needs to be given more opportunities.

 

Jayant Yadav has a FC 200  ...if he is a genuine spinner and not a darter like Axar then who knows might add to our batting depth along with quality bowling

Jayant also played decent cameos in Aus A and more than few, thats is i wanna test him to. That is why he was announced in test squad incase ashwin is injured he could bat a bit to. 

He isnt a darter he is more of traditional off spinner, Did well in Aus A with ball as well

[Lannister]

His bowling is more suitable on wickets such as in Aus/SA. For now he has no choice but to improve his batting if he wants to play in England. 

[Texan]

Pandya should play all games IMO. He has a lot of potential and seam bowling allrounders are as rare as they get especially in India. Also, for all the conclusions already drawn on Pandya, lets not forget that he is yet to play an ODI. All conclusions are based on T20 performances and we have seen as in the case of Dhoni that a very mediocre T20 player can be a fabulous ODI player.