Would you experiment with Hardik Pandya at No 6 for NZ ODI series

[Ankit_sharma03]

Since Raina is injured a thought came to me how about trying Hardik at 6, even though i knw it wont happen and it sounds very risky for batting dept.  But here are few reason that made me think of it-

 

1. To fit Pandya in 11- We all want pandya to play as we have high hopes on him. But in current scenario where our main bowlers are rested we cant play him as 5th bowler. I dont think so Pandya at this stage can give u 10 overs every match as a bowler and none of the top batsman bowl. Raina out n mandeep n jadhav doesnt bowl as well. So basically if i play pandya M risking the 5th bowler. Pandya as 5th bowler becomes more risky as our best bowlers like Shami, ashwin, jadeja, bhuvi all are rested and there is huge inexp in bowling lineup. So if anyone of main bowler have an off day and pandya cant give u 10 over well well we are really going to struggle 

2. Raina at 6 wasnt gud either incase of collapse- another thing what worries with the idea what if top order collapses . Well when did raina bailed us out of collapse , hardly very few instances. So even in case of collapse what better raina would do than Pandya

3. Responsibility makes u grow- Batting Panyda at 6 will give him more balls and responsibility to put a price on wkt. Best way to improve batting is to bat up the order. Even in case of Jadeja n Raina i always believed their batting regressed coz of batting at that spot. Pandya did show he can put a price on his Wkt in Australia A tour 

4. DEW and inexperienced bowling lineup - Most matches are in north in winter so there would be dew for sure and we have extremely inexp bowling lineup so a 6th bowler is must in such scenario. In case of dew the spinners are almost out of the game. 

5. Adding Jadhav would solve no purpose- We already have Mishra n bumrah who are liabilities in field and minus 2 assets like jadeja n raina in field . That bowling lineup needs to to be backed by fielding so Adding pandya to field makes more sense than jadhav. Also do we see jadhav playing in 2019,well no way. These days u cant have so many liabilities in field. 

6. Pandya, Axar, Yadav, Mishra- well the tail doesnt look that week, all these guys can bat and certainly all can make 50s for sure. 

7. Pandya being looked on as test all rounder- well if we are looking to make pandya as test all rounder and make him bat at 6, well we have to trust him at 6 in Odi's to then.

[tweaker]

Pandya ' s bowling is under rated .He has the knack of taking wickets & he has bowled enough in Australia A tour.

 

I really think  he should be used as pinch hitter in 1of the odi.

 

We can back him to come good either in batting, bowling & fielding.

[express bowling]

My  preferred team for the 1st ODI      ( not the ideal team due to so many injuries / illnesses  )

 

Rohit

Rahane

Kohli

Pandey

Dhoni

Jadhav

Hardik

Axar

Mishra

Dhawal

Bumrah

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

My  preferred team for the 1st ODI

 

Rohit

Rahane

Kohli

Pandey

Dhoni

Jadhav

Hardik

Axar

Mishra

Dhawal

Bumrah

 

See my only concern with this lineup is # liabilities in field- mishra, bumrah and jadhav . They arent even avg fielder they are really bad

Then add to that there would be dew, that can take mishra n axar out of picture

In dharamshala the ball travels fast in air

Pandya doesnt have the exp to give u 10 overs easily in Indian conditions, i feel his bowling is ideal to smash in Indian conditions

Bumrah hasnt been that good with new ball as he has been with the old ball

N if one of the bowlers have an off day which really looks like with dew and inexperience well will be chasing a big one or loosing after a big total

 

So my concern with a 6th bowler grows with all these problems. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

See my only concern with this lineup is # liabilities in field- mishra, bumrah and jadhav . They arent even avg fielder they are really bad

Then add to that there would be dew, that can take mishra n axar out of picture

In dharamshala the ball travels fast in air

Pandya doesnt have the exp to give u 10 overs easily in Indian conditions, i feel his bowling is ideal to smash in Indian conditions

Bumrah hasnt been that good with new ball as he has been with the old ball

 

So my concern with a 6th bowler grows with all these problems. 

As so many players are injured, we don't have many options.  Ideally, we would have had Rahul, Dhawan and Ashwin playing.

 

If the pitch is green then obviously Umesh will play and replace one of the spinners.

 

 Mishra is a good ODI bowler and makes it to the side as the bowling attack lacks experience.  We can't have 5 rookie bowlers playing.

[sandeep]

It wouldn't even be an experiment - its a no-brainer.  We need to groom him for England tournaments.  He's a better batsman than bowler but hasn't had the opportunities to develop.  We have a hole in the lower middle order that is crying out for someone who can hit the big shots.  Right now our best option there is Raina, but he's getting older and his part-time bowling will be cannon fodder in England.  

 

I'll be disappointed if Pandya doesn't get a proper run in the lead up to the Champions trophy and 2019 WC.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

It wouldn't even be an experiment - its a no-brainer.  We need to groom him for England tournaments.  He's a better batsman than bowler but hasn't had the opportunities to develop.  We have a hole in the lower middle order that is crying out for someone who can hit the big shots.  Right now our best option there is Raina, but he's getting older and his part-time bowling will be cannon fodder in England.  

 

I'll be disappointed if Pandya doesn't get a proper run in the lead up to the Champions trophy and 2019 WC.  

Completely agree with u, he can only become better with batting by facing lot more overs. At 7 he would only be left with 3-5 over many days and his bowling be that effective on Indian pitches to give him much confidence.

Infact it ll b low scores at 7 and a beating in few matches of his bowling will put him under more n more pressure only.

[fineleg]

I am NOT on the Hardik Pandya bandwagon yet. He does not seem to have good batting skills, despite some scores here and there. Even Irfan Pathan was 5 times a better batsman (batting technique) than Hardik Pandya.

Edited October 14, 2016 by fineleg

[CG]

I am NOT on the Hardik Pandya bandwagon yet. He does not seem to have good batting skills, despite some scores here and there. Even Irfan Pathan was 5 times a better batsman (batting technique) than Hardik Pandya.

You have no idea about Batting technique then.

[maniac]

No 6 needs to be a power hitter who can also play the waiting game of rotating the strike etc....Pandya has not shown that aspect...He has 5 50's at the FC level...no 100's

 

Apart from a couple of knocks in IPL hasn't shown anything at any level to prove that he can bat at No 6 at internaional level that too against a good bowling side like Nzl.

 

Am I missing anything here? so far haven't seen any technique from him....are we calling him a quality batsman based on some IPL hackfests.

 

His last few scores against Gujrat,Aus A and South Africa are 47,79,0,2,12*,14*,18,1...that 47 was one of those pancake pitches where even Axar Patel got a 100 

 

Good to groom him but nothing tells me that we need to have high expectations from him.

 

I am not all negative on grooming Pandya-He is a world class fielder and athlete....can bowl 135+ consistently and has a great hand eye coordination while batting and he is only 23 so age is on his side but he is far far far from being a finished product...so these hopes of playing him in tests or him batting 5 or 6 is like building castles in air.

 

He needs to develop his batting technique and to fill in a few overs where his natural pace will come handy or develop his bowling skills to such an extent where additionally his batting  can  be used to slog a few at 8 or 9....till then apples to apples nothing separates fhim from Binny apart from one is a "finished" product and the other is a unfinished raw material.....Bhuvi,Ashwin,Jadeja who are far better than him in at least 1 area are more of allrounders than him...so don't get why we go gaga over this guy.

 

Chris woakes has a FC batting average of 37 and bowling average of 24 and it took him a while to get into the groove in internationals

 

Ben Stokes has 16 100's at domestic level and 5 5wicket hauls overall List A+FC....still despite being a match winner has struggled to find consistency.

 

James Faulkner has a FC bowling average of 24.00 and can be picked as a bowler alone...his hitting skills are an added bonus.

 

Pandya is neither here nor there....International cricket is not a training academy.

Edited October 14, 2016 by maniac

[jalebi_bhai]

The thing with all-rounders is that they should be able to hold down a place in the team on the strength of one skill alone. This is the fundamental problem with Stuart Binny as well as with Hardik, they're not good enough to be picked on the basis of one skill unlike Jaddu.

 

Now saying that, I would definitely take the gamble on Pandya and even Axar at D'shala. They might get tonked around but it will be a necessary learning curve. I believe in giving people a baptism of fire.

[Tibarn]

If MS is planning on him playing in the CT, then he should indeed start getting some experience now. The next two tournaments are in England, so we need a plan about what players are going to be selected and then give the players the necessary experience. 

[Texan]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

My  preferred team for the 1st ODI      ( not the ideal team due to so many injuries / illnesses  )

 

Rohit

Rahane

Kohli

Pandey

Dhoni

Jadhav

Hardik

Axar

Mishra

Dhawal

Bumrah

 

The only issue I see with this team is the lack of any backup bowling options. If any one of the bowlers goes for many runs, there are no batsmen who can turn their arms over for a few overs to compensate. One other option could be to use Jayant Yadav in place of Jadhav to provide an additional bowling option. Considering that we are playing in India and wickets would be expected to be flat, it is very likely that Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni and Pandey might be able to do all the run scoring and we may not need the additional batsman. 

[express bowling]

On 10/14/2016 at 9:18 PM, jalebi_bhai said:

The thing with all-rounders is that they should be able to hold down a place in the team on the strength of one skill alone. This is the fundamental problem with Stuart Binny as well as with Hardik, they're not good enough to be picked on the basis of one skill unlike Jaddu.

This  is my belief too.  We have rarely,  if ever, seen a bits and pieces cricketer last long in tests or ODIs.  You must either be a proper batsman who can bowl or a proper bowler who can bat, to be termed an all-rounder.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Now saying that, I would definitely take the gamble on Pandya and even Axar at D'shala. They might get tonked around but it will be a necessary learning curve. I believe in giving people a baptism of fire.

One interesting aspect about H. Pandya's progress as a cricketer is that, though he started off as a batting all-rounder....... in the recently concluded A tour to Australia featuring both 1-day and 4-day games, he was amazingly consistent with the ball  and rarely gave away many runs while picking up some wickets regularly.

 

In ODIs, I think he can be tried as a bowler who can bat , in this NZ series.   That we will be playing both the CT and the WC in England will make it even more important to develop a seaming all-rounder.

 

In one of the unofficial test matches in Australia, Pandya played a mature knock of 77 with his team in trouble.   I remember him scoring 47 in a BP XI game against Steyn, Morkel, etc. a year back in a 2-day game. So, the ability to build an innings is there but he needs to get much more consistent with the bat.

 

His inclusion in the ODIs  will give him confidence but will also make him miss a part of this Ranji season....this may slow down his development as a batsman unless he gets chances to bat for long in ODIs....don't think that chance will come regularly but he maybe promoted to No.5 in one or two games to see how he fares.

Edited October 16, 2016 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

21 minutes ago, maniac said:

No 6 needs to be a power hitter who can also play the waiting game of rotating the strike etc....Pandya has not shown that aspect...He has 5 50's at the FC level...no 100's

Apart from a couple of knocks in IPL hasn't shown anything at any level to prove that he can bat at No 6 at internaional level that too against a good bowling side like Nzl.

Am I missing anything here? so far haven't seen any technique from him....are we calling him a quality batsman based on some IPL hackfests.

His last few scores against Gujrat,Aus A and South Africa are 47,79,0,2,12*,14*,18,1...that 47 was one of those pancake pitches where even Axar Patel got a 100 

Good to groom him but nothing tells me that we need to have high expectations from him.

I am not all negative on grooming Pandya-He is a world class fielder and athlete....can bowl 135+ consistently and has a great hand eye coordination while batting and he is only 23 so age is on his side but he is far far far from being a finished product...so these hopes of playing him in tests or him batting 5 or 6 is like building castles in air.

He needs to develop his batting technique and to fill in a few overs where his natural pace will come handy or develop his bowling skills to such an extent where additionally his batting  can  be used to slog a few at 8 or 9....till then apples to apples nothing separates fhim from Binny apart from one is a "finished" product and the other is a unfinished raw material.....Bhuvi,Ashwin,Jadeja who are far better than him in at least 1 area are more of allrounders than him...so don't get why we go gaga over this guy.

Chris woakes has a FC batting average of 37 and bowling average of 24 and it took him a while to get into the groove in internationals

Ben Stokes has 16 100's at domestic level and 5 5wicket hauls overall List A+FC....still despite being a match winner has struggled to find consistency.

James Faulkner has a FC bowling average of 24.00 and can be picked as a bowler alone...his hitting skills are an added bonus.

Pandya is neither here nor there....International cricket is not a training academy.

Let me Start by saying i know Pandya is raw and extremely inconsistent and there is a structure to bring players up but there is a thing called Fast tracking that has also been there. Some exceptions are being made in past and would be made in future also. In case of Pandya that can be and should be made. Why?????????

 

Cause Indian Team Desperately needs a quick Seaming all rounder and Hard hitter. Its the need of the hour

 

Now, Irony just Died in a big way with ur IPL comment. Arent you the one who every test n odi keeps bringing Rohit sharma's great off spin talent on basis of one Ipl hattrick some 7-8 yrs ago. Atleast Pandya's perfomance have been recent and a lot more than one fluke Hattrick. 

Irony Twin also died where you are questioning when you are questioning his domestic record when u want Rohit to be a 5th bowling option with his terrible terrible first class bowling record. 

 

Now, about his batting technique well yes there are a lot of loops holes but the question mark on hi batting perfomances isnt valid either. 1st u need to revisit that 79 knock he recently played on Aus- A tour on a green pitch where the team was drooling on 46/6 and he played that knock on pitch which had some grass. Also at domestic level he has played knock that have been gritty . LAst one the most recent where he made 47 and grinded for 157 balls.

Please revisit the 79 knock here is the link

http://www.bcci.tv/videos/id/2542/india-a-tour-of-australia-2nd-unofficial-test-day-1-highlights

 

About his 5-50s well he has played a season or season n half max dont expect much. 

 

when we compare stokes n faulkner one thing we need to understand our domestic structure isnt even half as good as of england n australia. Comparing them ashwin, jadeja, bhuvi would also be wrong as they had one skilled developed and they worked on their other skill due to number of games they had in domestic and international.

 

Correctly Pandya is neither here or there but he has every requirement ticked in terms of ability and in case and exception should be made. Certainly when he is picked already then give him a proper chance, some player are confidence players and he seems to be one. HE certainly has the ability to place n bounce the problem comes when the ball moves which will happen to our top order to. 

He is extremely inconsistent and he has other issues but thats what he has to gain with experience the game sense. Either we groom him over international level or leave him domestic on weird pitches facing trundler army  or make an exception and train on bigger level which has been done with many players in past. HE does well or he fails would ultimately depend on his own temperament and hunger. Next year there would be overseas tour as well, with many injuries he has a chance to gain experience. 

 

About test matches Come overseas we ll need a batting all rounder or an all rounder, unfortunately none of our batsman bowl neither does the upcoming batsman like Pandey, nair or iyer does. So Pandya becomes extremely crucial or else we are stuck with binny n rishi. 

 

And hows successfully has Raina done the job of grinder that we fear Pandya's failure . ???????????

 

 

 

[jalebi_bhai]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

This  is my belief too.  We have rarely,  if ever, seen a bits and pieces cricketer last long in tests or ODIs.  You must either be a proper batsman who can bowl or a proper bowler who can bat, to be termed an all-rounder.

 

 

 

 

One interesting aspect about H. Pandya's progress as a cricketer is that, though he started off as a batting all-rounder, in the recently concluded A tour to Australia featuring both 1-day and 4-day games, he was amazingly consistent with the ball  and rarely gave away many runs while picking up some wickets regularly.

 

In ODIs, I think he can be tried as a bowler who can bat , in this NZ series.   That we will be playing both the CT and the WC in England will make it even more important to develop a seaming all-rounder.

 

In one of the unofficial test matches in Australia, Pandya played a mature knock of 77 with his team in trouble.   I remember him scoring 47 in a BP XI game against Steyn, Morkel, etc. a year back in a 2-day game. So, the ability to build an innings is ther but he needs to get much more consistent with the bat.

 

His inclusion in the ODI will give him confidence but will also make him miss a part of this Ranji season....this may slow down his development as a batsman unless he gets chances to bat for long in ODIs....don't think that chance will come regularly but he maybe promoted to No.5 in one or two games to see how he fares.

Hardik oozes potential, but so far we have only seen in it flashes. I believe that he can be the long term solution to our all-rounder woes. It seems that the team management are willing to invest in him and Axar, which is very good.

 

Another important role that we need someone for is that of a power hitter/match finisher, Dhoni's current role. I think Hardik could perform that role with experience.  

[WC2011INDIA]

ODI and T20 series will not be pretty at all.

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, Texan said:

The only issue I see with this team is the lack of any backup bowling options. If any one of the bowlers goes for many runs, there are no batsmen who can turn their arms over for a few overs to compensate. One other option could be to use Jayant Yadav in place of Jadhav to provide an additional bowling option. Considering that we are playing in India and wickets would be expected to be flat, it is very likely that Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni and Pandey might be able to do all the run scoring and we may not need the additional batsman. 

You are right about the lack of back-up bowler part.  

 

However, Jadhav  is included as a lower-middle order fast scorer and  I don't think Jayant can do it consistently.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

21 minutes ago, Texan said:

The only issue I see with this team is the lack of any backup bowling options. If any one of the bowlers goes for many runs, there are no batsmen who can turn their arms over for a few overs to compensate. One other option could be to use Jayant Yadav in place of Jadhav to provide an additional bowling option. Considering that we are playing in India and wickets would be expected to be flat, it is very likely that Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni and Pandey might be able to do all the run scoring and we may not need the additional batsman. 

Absolutely My issue with the whole squad, Such inexp bowling line up with dew factor one bowler out of 5 has a huge chance to have a bad day. N yes i agree that on our wkts Top order is enough , if they fail i dont know what has raina done in past in that situation that we miss a 6th batsman. 

 

We need a 6th bowling option, i wouldnt have said it if we had yuvi,sehwag, sachin or ganguly or our main bowlers like shami, bhuvi, jadeja, ashwin would have been there. 

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

You are right about the lack of back-up bowler part.  

 

However, Jadhav  is included as a lower-middle order fast scorer and  I don't think Jayant can do it consistently.  

About Jadhav hitting role well thats what pandya can do and provide bowling option to thats why i wrote this post as an experiment coz i knw there is a consistency issue when we compare jadhav n pandya. Pandya also is an asset on field where as Jadhav is a complete liability. 

 

Risk stands in both cases, ill choose to risk with Pandya cause he brings in more on table than Jadhav. 

Or else pandya has to sit out n ill play Mandeep ahead of jadhav n play Axar, mishra, yadav , dhawal n bumrah. (i fear dew in this case)

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Hardik oozes potential, but so far we have only seen in it flashes. I believe that he can be the long term solution to our all-rounder woes. It seems that the team management are willing to invest in him and Axar, which is very good.

 

Another important role that we need someone for is that of a power hitter/match finisherA, Dhoni's current role. I think Hardik could perform that role with experience.  

Absolutely.  We desperately need a couple of power-hitters / finishers batting at 6 and 7.  

 

Trial and error is the only way to see who fits this role.

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Absolutely My issue with the whole squad, Such inexp bowling line up with dew factor one bowler out of 5 has a huge chance to have a bad day. N yes i agree that on our wkts Top order is enough , if they fail i dont know what has raina done in past in that situation that we miss a 6th batsman. 

 

We need a 6th bowling option, i wouldnt have said it if we had yuvi,sehwag, sachin or ganguly or our main bowlers like shami, bhuvi, jadeja, ashwin would have been there. 

About Jadhav hitting role well thats what pandya can do and provide bowling option to thats why i wrote this post as an experiment coz i knw there is a consistency issue when we compare jadhav n pandya. Pandya also is an asset on field where as Jadhav is a complete liability. 

 

Risk stands in both cases, ill choose to risk with Pandya cause he brings in more on table than Jadhav. 

Or else pandya has to sit out n ill play Mandeep ahead of jadhav n play Axar, mishra, yadav , dhawal n bumrah. (i fear dew in this case)

Why can't we play both Pandya and  Jadhav ?

Edited October 14, 2016 by express bowling