Curious case of Mohali: selection conundrum?

[SUMO]

have a feeling mohali wont be seamer friendly 

Edited November 23, 2016 by SUMO

[rkt.india]

Bhuvi and Jaddu are not alroudners. They are tailenders who can bat a bit.

[rkt.india]

34 minutes ago, radhika said:

If we are talking about Anderson being a threat.....how can bhuvi not the first option.

 

Anderson is threat due to reverse. There will hardly be any swing with the new ball.

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Samcric said:

The perceived notion that Umesh's pace and reverse swing has cause more trouble than Bhuvi's control and swing needs to be put to test. Can you imagine South Africa not playing Philander on slightly less helpful conditions for someone more pacy?

 

Philander and BK are not comparable as both are different type of bowlers.

[Texan]

17 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Anderson is threat due to reverse. There will hardly be any swing with the new ball.

Anderson is a threat without reverse swing also. He got wickets without reverse in Vizag.

[Texan]

9 hours ago, Samcric said:

Bhuvi is the best Indian seamer in terms of average by far. Has taken 41 wickets at 28 runs/wicket compared to career averages of 34 and 38 for Shami and Umesh respectively. In fact he is the only Indian seamer to be averaging below 30 in the last 20 years or so which includes bowlers like Srinath (Avg 31), Zaheer (Avg: 33) etc. Provides far more control than Umesh and keeps up the pressure. Umesh provides at least 1-2 'hit me' balls every over. Becomes very difficult for a captain to set fields and control the game. I also feel Bhuvi is far ahead of Umesh in terms of thinking about plans to get batsmen out, setting a batsman up and understanding a batsman's weakness and consistently bowl at those areas. To me, his use of the short ball as a surprise element has been very impressive. Umesh, sometimes just runs in and tries to bowl fast and either ends up at the pads or way outside the off. Also, his reverse swing has been tackled rather well by English batsmen and he can't swing it both ways with a new ball. I think Bhuvi needs to be given a fair chance to prove his worth as the 2nd Seamer on less helpful pitches. You can't really ask for more than what he has done with his limited chances in 2016. Umesh has bowled well in the 2nd test but 1 wicket in a test is not good enough. Especially when Broad and Anderson got a lot more help from the wicket and looked genuinely more threatening. 

Best post I have seen in awhile here. Sums things up pretty well. But you know - there are many here who pay more attention to what the speed gun says rather than watch the action in the middle.

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, Texan said:

Anderson is a threat without reverse swing also. He got wickets without reverse in Vizag.

He did take only one wicket  without reverse swing that was on bouncer when he bounced out Vijay.

[Texan]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He did take only one wicket  without reverse swing that was on bouncer when he bounced out Vijay.

Watch the wickets again. None of them were reverse swing.

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, Texan said:

Best post I have seen in awhile here. Sums things up pretty well. But you know - there are many here who pay more attention to what the speed gun says rather than watch the action in the middle.

Problem is we are comparing BK bowling on green tops to Umesh on pattas. He is talking about BK can swing the ball both ways but forgets that you need conditions to get swing going. People do not understand the basic things and compare chalk and cheese. Ability to setting up a batsman means nothing if you do not have the tools to trouble batsmen on a flat pitch.

[Texan]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Problem is we are comparing BK bowling on green tops to Umesh on pattas. He is talking about BK can swing the ball both ways but forgets that you need conditions to get swing going. People do not understand the basic things and compare chalk and cheese. Ability to setting up a batsman means nothing if you do not have the tools to trouble batsmen on a flat pitch.

Every time BK bowls, pitch transforms into a green top.

 

Every time Umesh bowls, pitch transforms into a patta. 

 

I know I have seen it happen. Feel for Umesh.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Texan said:

Watch the wickets again. None of them were reverse swing.

yes, I have watched. He got Pujara in second innings with reverse swing and also Pujara played a bad shot to a nothing wide ball. Only Rahane got out to second new ball that swung. Also, he is 5-10K quicker than BK. Clocked up to 89-90 mph and pace at good accuracy will trouble any batsman.

[Sidhoni]

12 hours ago, laaloo said:

Wow nicely done and impressive poll. I edited to make it public. Just wanted to see all dhoni fans saying no for umesh yadav lol

You are one of us

[Mosher]

3 minutes ago, Texan said:

Every time BK bowls, pitch transforms into a green top.

 

Every time Umesh bowls, pitch transforms into a patta. 

 

I know I have seen it happen. Feel for Umesh.

How many times have they played together in a test match? Though Umesh has not bowled badly till now, I want BK to play ahead of him on pattas and see how he performs in a few games. Then we can put this debate to rest. Similarly I want Umesh to be given chances on green pitches too. Poor guy has played most of his matches on pattas.

[Texan]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

yes, I have watched. He got Pujara in second innings with reverse swing and also Pujara played a bad shot to a nothing wide ball. Only Rahane got out to second new ball that swung. Also, he is 5-10K quicker than BK. Clocked up to 89-90 mph and pace at good accuracy will trouble any batsman.

Again speed gun analysis. Remember speed guns only measure release of ball from the hand. So, now you are saying only one wicket was caused by reverse swing as opposed to earlier you were saying all except one was caused by reverse swing? In the second innings, he was mostly bowling off cutters and getting the ball to land in the cracks. The one that got Pujara moved drastically off the seam because it landed on one of those cracks.

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, Texan said:

Every time BK bowls, pitch transforms into a green top.

 

Every time Umesh bowls, pitch transforms into a patta. 

 

I know I have seen it happen. Feel for Umesh.

If you do not accept facts that what can I do. Indian team management only plays BK when it is a green track in test matches and Umesh is played on flatter tracks because he can use reverse swing.

 

Here is the commentary form cricinfo for 2nd test against NZ. what more proof do you need?

 

Quote

9.25am An interesting-looking pitch, then. Plenty of cracks on its surface, but also a healthy covering of grass to help hold it together.  

 

[Texan]

Just now, Mosher said:

How many times have they played together in a test match? Though Umesh has not bowled badly till now, I want BK to play ahead of him on pattas and see how he performs in a few games. Then we can put this debate to rest. Similarly I want Umesh to be given chances on green pitches too. Poor guy has played most of his matches on pattas.

Surely Anderson and Broad must have played on a green pitch if they were able to get 4/95 and 5/82 respectively.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Texan said:

Again speed gun analysis. Remember speed guns only measure release of ball from the hand. So, now you are saying only one wicket was caused by reverse swing as opposed to earlier you were saying all except one was caused by reverse swing? In the second innings, he was mostly bowling off cutters and getting the ball to land in the cracks. The one that got Pujara moved drastically off the seam because it landed on one of those cracks.

Pujara one was not a cutter. It was a seam up delivery that swung in late. You clearly have no idea about fast bowling and seems liek it is futile to argue with you. Here is commentary excerpt.

 

 

Quote

 

16.5

Anderson to Pujara, OUT, what a ball! Cleans him up. That is a ripper from Anderson. Sharp late swing, darts between bat and pad then knocks back middle stump. Early reverse? Lovely bowling, balls outside off followed by the change up.

 

 

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Texan said:

Surely Anderson and Broad must have played on a green pitch if they were able to get 4/95 and 5/82 respectively.

Reverse and cutters. Anderson used reverse. Borad used his fast leg cutters and bounce and none of the Indian bowlers can bowl cutters at that pace like like Broad did. Indian bowlers too used reverse but they lacked the cutters. You think BK could bowler cutters like Broad or would have picked as any wickets as Broad on that pitch?

[Texan]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Pujara one was not a cutter. It was a seam up delivery that swung in late. You clearly have no idea about fast bowling and seems liek it is futile to argue with you. Here is commentary excerpt.

 

 

 

And you clearly switch gears from all wickets except one was due to reverse swing to one wicket was due to reverse swing and all others were not. If you think Anderson is effective only due to reverse swing, you have clearly missed the 400+ wickets he has taken and shows your notion about cricketing skills. Your obsession with speed guns is blinding your ability to see cricketing skills. So, yes, Umesh only bowls on pattas and when Anderson and Broad came to bowl, stupid groundsmen started planting grass on the pitch. Accept that and move on.

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, Texan said:

Again speed gun analysis. Remember speed guns only measure release of ball from the hand. So, now you are saying only one wicket was caused by reverse swing as opposed to earlier you were saying all except one was caused by reverse swing? In the second innings, he was mostly bowling off cutters and getting the ball to land in the cracks. The one that got Pujara moved drastically off the seam because it landed on one of those cracks.

yes speed is measured form hand, so, it is always about pace in the air. You are not going gain pace after pitching. If you are not quick in the air, how can you be quick off the pitch?