Areas where Kohli is better than Tendulkar as a player.

[randomGuy]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

So can Caddick, Hoggard,Gough, Fraser, Dominic Cork, etc.

Anderson isn't a better bowler than those- he simply has outlasted them significantly.

 

No. Anderson is better than those.

 

But dozens of cricketers are comfortably better than sachin...Beyond a point, longevity isn't a factor. 

 

Who would I rather have as a player for India (whatever duration Kohli's career lasts for, or even if he retires today) , kohli or sachin? The answer is kohli without a doubt.

 

[goose]

ok randy, don't think too hard about this one. who would you rather have playing for Indian today - bradman or kohli?

[Muloghonto]

16 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

No. Anderson is better than those.

 

But dozens of cricketers are comfortably better than sachin...Beyond a point, longevity isn't a factor. 

 

Who would I rather have as a player for India (whatever duration Kohli's career lasts for, or even if he retires today) , kohli or sachin? The answer is kohli without a doubt.

 

Thats laughably ignorant, but hey, people are allowed to have their favourite players- yours clearly is Kohli.

You can pick Kohli, who has had some good series and some colossal failures as well- the likes of both which Tendulkar never had. FYI, Tendulkar never battled in a series more than 6 times and failed to register a 50 or a 100. Infact, Tendulkar going without a 50 or a century in a series more than 2 matches has happened exactly twice- one against Sri Lanka, once against Pakistan. Suffice to say, i will pick a player who is virtually guaranteed to score a century/fifty every series, versus one who has had just one year of Test dominance in a 5 year career so far and has gone an entire 5 test,10 innings series without registering a 50. You want big risk, big reward, i want the surefire guarantee. 

 

And no, Anderson isn't better- he has bowled on a bit less green-tops than those English bowlers of the 90s but for a large chunk, Anderson was part of a much more complete attack : 5 genuine bowlers, 1, sometimes 2 world class spinners to take care of the middle overs, as well as good to world class opening partners - like Harmison or Broad. But his numbers, except for longevity, have nothing special compared to Hoggard, Caddick, Cork, Harmison, Gough, etc.

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Muloghonto

[randomGuy]

^I didn't mean numbers either...he is very good in UK, but not nearly as good outside. Yes, everyone has seen that. My view takes into account that as well.

 

I guess Srinath, Zaheer and Anderson would make a nice comparison...all 3 had very good careers and were very good at home.

 

On sachin, it's purely due to sentiment value that the fans attach which creates hype. Otherwise, while sachin was very good, he isn't a match for several other great players.

Edited December 13, 2016 by randomGuy

[randomGuy]

24 minutes ago, goose said:

ok randy, don't think too hard about this one. who would you rather have playing for Indian today - bradman or kohli?

I could answer this one if I had seen Bradman play.

[Laaloo]

43 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Some very good posts Mr. Pande being given negative ratings and illogical replies..... Hilarious to read.

 

 

I seem to recollect you doing the same thing in the Sachin social work thread. Of course when I called you out, no response. You did give negative reviews to posts made by Mariyam right?  Did you also remove the post here calling Sachin 'potty compared to Kohli earlier in this thread? 

[goose]

6 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

I could answer this one if I had seen Bradman play.

go on have a stab. you've heard people speak that have seen him, seen the odd poor quality video etc. just go on what information you have.

[randomGuy]

12 minutes ago, laaloo said:

I seem to recollect you doing the same thing in the Sachin social work thread. Of course when I called you out, no response. You did give negative reviews to posts made by Mariyam right?  Did you also remove the post here calling Sachin 'potty compared to Kohli earlier in this thread? 

oh the one where you called me a 10 yr old or smthing like that? ;)

 

I didn't reply coz I disagreed with rest of your post. Sorry about that. Iirc That post (Mariam's post) was irrelevant to the topic was what I thought (the Bharat ratna issue) which is why I rated it down. Naren's posts here have been very good and to the point imho.

 

Goddy rhymes with potty....sorry I am extremely bad with English so that's the best that I could do....but someone else deleted it.

 

No hard feelings from my side. But sirji itna jyada (clarification) type mat karwaya karo.:)

Edited December 14, 2016 by randomGuy

[Laaloo]

2 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

oh the one where you called me a 10 yr old or smthing like that? ;)

 

I didn't reply coz I disagreed with rest of your post. Sorry about that. Iirc That post (Mariam's post) was irrelevant to the topic was what I thought (the Bharat ratna issue) which is why I rated it down. Naren's posts here have been very good and to the point imho.

 

Goddy rhymes with potty....sorry I am extremely bad with English so that's the best that I could do....but someone else deleted it.

 

No hard feelings from my side. But sirji itna jyada (clarification) type mat karwaya karo.:)

Nothing to clarify. My point is simple. I haven't seen one bhakt being dis respective to pande or you or other criticizers. P.S I dont have time to read all of mulos posts so maybe I may have missed it. 

 

In return, you or pande have called sachin a jackass. You called him potty. you called his fans foolish/chutiyas. Has anyone here called Kohli a jackass? His fans as chutiyas?  Narens posts are nothing new. His old id was "Patriot" a few years ago. Back then it was Lara vs Tendulkar. Now it's kohli vs Tendulkar. 

[randomGuy]

12 minutes ago, goose said:

go on have a stab. you've heard people speak that have seen him, seen the odd poor quality video etc. just go on what information you have.

I can. But then I would not be Honest with myself. What is your point sirji?

 

I agreed with the gist of your post btw... someone commenting on sachin should have seen him and his peers play for long enough....but the conditions you put (age and TV subscription) were funny to read. No offense sirji.

[randomGuy]

1 minute ago, laaloo said:

Nothing to clarify. My point is simple. I haven't seen one bhakt being dis respective to pande or you or other criticizers. P.S I dont have time to read all of mulos posts so maybe I may have missed it. 

 

In return, you or pande have called sachin a jackass. You called him potty. you called his fans foolish/chutiyas. Has anyone here called Kohli a jackass? His fans as chutiyas?  Narens posts are nothing new. His old id was "Patriot" a few years ago. Back then it was Lara vs Tendulkar. Now it's kohli vs Tendulkar. 

Why does anyone has to take it personally? I said it in that thread as well , you are better than me in every respect. 

 

To me, sachin fans as a group come across as unreasonable/sentimental/foolish when it comes to sachin. Maybe it's only a few who are making it look bad.

 

Naren had another ID. That doesn't matter. I am just reading his views and happen to agree with most of them.

[BeautifulGame]

In that innings of 119,  there was swing for his  first 25 to 30 runs and seam movement throughout the innings.  Even in the 2nd innings, there was some seam movement.

 

At Perth, he came to bat in the 20th over.....it  was very challenging then.  No.6 has little meaning as wickets fell very quickly in both innings.

 

I cited the T20 innings because it was not a typical T20 match where the batters were trying to hit.  It was more a battle for survival in a low scoring match, with the ball swinging and seaming and sufficient close-in fielders.

 

You seem to have special tough parameters for judging Kohli.  Every great or even good batsman scores much more centuries on flatter pitches than on challenging conditions or tracks...because that is  the natural thing to happen.  Everybody bats better when the conditions are easier and  have only a handful of  good or big knocks under extreme challenging conditions.  That applies to retired ATGs  too. 

Yea .I don't have any special parameters for Kohli.But when u want to compare to a ATG like Sachin then yeah special parameters apply.His fault also will be analysed .

Yes every batsman score a lot in flat wickets but ATG batsmen score a lot in tough wickets as well.

Mate as for the T20 knock , seriously Viru scored exceptional hundreds in new Zealand in Odis when it swinging like anything.Yet in test cricket he never felt comfortable against swing.Playing sideways movement in white ball and red ball are completely different

I am not criticising Kohli.Just putting up in perspective he has a long long way to go before even being compared with someone like Sachin.

Kohli still has a lot to achieve.Most of his runs has come mostly in flat batting wickets whether some like it or not apart from SA.He struggled with movement in England and struggled at home when we played with turners against SA .These are factual.This isn't a slight on by the way Kohli because most of our current batsmen have issues.Rahane is struggling against turning deliveries (One test against SA doesn't change that) and Pujara has big problems against bounce (His 169 at wanderers doesn't change that)..Same with Kohli an one of knock in Perth won't change the fact that he has issues with sideways movement when he has struggled against them badly. When you are to be a great batsmen he has to prove he can also score in tough conditions whether spin or seam.T his applies to all our current generation batsmen not just Kohli.

He has a long way to go as a test batsman .He was averaging what 45? before this series .As I said he wasn't even considered our best test batsmen before this England series . Suddenly comparison with Sachin ?

[randomGuy]

I haven't called sachin anything. In the chit chat thread...I only said very good as a batsman and very ordinary as a human being. And nothing wrong in being ordinary as a human being.

 

Its the fans who are lame elevating him to a status that he doesn't deserve.

[BeautifulGame]

No the pitches didn't make them Bradman, we just bowled and fielded bad and Voges had a extemely good patch on those and Smith has been fairly consistent in last 15 months.

 

On these similar pitches in 2011, we lost 4-0 with all our greats failing, Pitches did not get flat in just 4 years time. All Australian grounds get flat in that way. Even Gabba, Brisbane is pretty flat then which you meant where Kohli did not score on that 2015 tour as that has assistance early but can look flatter than even Adelaide. 

 

 

 

On similar pitches ?

Did u even watch in 2011? In 2011 wickets were one of the bowler friendly conditions we ever faced in Australia.

[BeautifulGame]

The same Wisden rates Sachin as the 2nd greatest test batsman behind Bradman and 2nd greatest ODI batsman behind Richards....You can't pick and chose stats and sources to suit your argument.

That's what he is doing through out this thread lol

[narenpande1]

28 minutes ago, laaloo said:

Nothing to clarify. My point is simple. I haven't seen one bhakt being dis respective to pande or you or other criticizers. P.S I dont have time to read all of mulos posts so maybe I may have missed it. 

 

In return, you or pande have called sachin a jackass. You called him potty. you called his fans foolish/chutiyas. Has anyone here called Kohli a jackass? His fans as chutiyas?  Narens posts are nothing new. His old id was "Patriot" a few years ago. Back then it was Lara vs Tendulkar. Now it's kohli vs Tendulkar. 

 

@laaloo

 

Dude seriously..Have some integrity and honesty if nothing else as a moderator here.

 

1) Pls  show me one post where i have spoken an ill word against sachin ? Lets see it. 

 

2) I have never ever made any comparison against Lara specifically under my handle many years back . I dare you to pull it up. I did do a similar stats with peers, where he was found outdone by his peers.

 

Now even if ANYONE ( randomguy ) has so what ????

 

Is Sachin your or anyone here's  father or brother or uncle ???

 

Why take it so damn personally ???

 

Treat a sportsman/ entertainer as one- your lot make any questions against him as one attacking your family's dignity  or something. 

 

And if anybody on this forum has made any comparison of Sachin with X and Y and Z.... so WHAT ?????

 

Is that not what a discussion forum is supposted to be for ??? Or is a forum supposed to be to pea brained 1 liners on live matches and posting  pictures of food on chitchat? 

 

Why react to it as if some blasphemy has been commited ??

 

your lot and the  fanboy bridge in reality are actually the culprits.

 

these people attack anyone who does not accept his cult status with a vicious mad mob mentality and start attacking the poster personally with names

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cricketics]

48 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

On similar pitches ?

Did u even watch in 2011? In 2011 wickets were one of the bowler friendly conditions we ever faced in Australia.

Yes, I think you are forgetting that same pitches where we got bundled and lost by innings is where Australia scored 700. 

 

Same pitches Clarke scored 300 and score 700 runs in a series. Australian pitches are similar. Unless you were curator that game.

[BeautifulGame]

Yes, I think you are forgetting that same pitches where we got bundled and lost by innings is where Australia scored 700. 

 

Same pitches Clarke scored 300 and score 700 runs in a series. Australian pitches are similar. Unless you were curator that game.

Because conditions flattened out as it does in most wickets in these conditions.

In 2012 in first test we had Australia 200 for 6.

In 2nd test we batted first and bowled out cheaply .And then we still had Aussies 30/3 actually

In 4th test we had Australia 80/3 (They were lucky to just be 3 down by then) before letting them run away .

In 2015 apart from from Gabba, wickets were road.

If u think the conditions we faced in 2012 and 2015 are similar , you are way off the charts .

In every test in 2012 , it was helpful to seamers .In 2016 they were just roads .

[narenpande1]

2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Some very good posts Mr. Pande being given negative ratings and illogical replies..... Hilarious to read.

 

 

 

 Cheers mate. That is the mentality of the mad mob fanboy brigade. 

 

When logical fact based reasoning is beyond them, they take it as a personal insult to compare anybody with him and start attacking the poster like a mob.

 

 

[Cricketics]

9 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Because conditions flattened out as it does in most wickets in these conditions.

In 2012 in first test we had Australia 200 for 6.

In 2nd test we batted first and bowled out cheaply .And then we still had Aussies 30/3 actually

In 4th test we had Australia 80/3 (They were lucky to just be 3 down by then) before letting them run away .

In 2015 apart from from Gabba, wickets were road.

If u think the conditions we faced in 2012 and 2015 are similar , you are way off the charts .

In every test in 2012 , it was helpful to seamers .In 2016 they were just roads .

Man you make too much for pitches. Adeialide is the test where Australia scored 600 and we got bundled out twice. The surface had in it to bat but we struggled to keep p'ships going in 2011-12. Similarly we showed in 2015 that Adelaide is good for bating and we finally put good decent scores even though we lost.

 

in 2004 there was similar case too and pretty much in 08, 2011 amd 2015 in venues like for example the SCG. 

 

Again in SCG we struggled in 2011 in first innings batting first and Dhoni and Ashwin had a p'ship on day one down the order, proving that pitch was easy to bat if you apply. In 2015 though, we batted well on similar strip. 

 

We just batted bad on 2011 tour. Kohli was the stand out performer with most runs and even the he wasn't at his best as he was still a bit new. He came 4 years later and doubled his total and hit 4 centuries and scored about 700 runs. He was just special and he applied himself on all the pitches which would assist bowlers a bit always. 

 

Fact is all Australian pitches will have something in it for batsmen wether the Perth pitch or Gabba or MCG. Also at the same time they will assist bowlers a bit. You get rewarded for good line and can cause problems. Batsmen have to make sure they take their time. We made errors and it messed us big time in 2011. In 2015, Kohli came to our rescue. It wasn't the pitches. He did it and deserves the credit.

 

/topic