Mohammed Shami and Wriddhiman Saha ruled out of Chennai test. Should Rishabh Pant debut in place of PP ?

[BeautifulGame]

Sorry, but I disagree with your premise that selecting Parthiv was an error.  That's why you want to yank him first thing.  Patel's got his flaws, but he was the best avaialable option out of the options known at the time.    Now there may be the next great wicketkeeper for India out there, maybe this Saini fellow who apparently is batting well @ Lahli.  But there is no clear-cut contender knocking down the door.  And Pant-gasming over Rishabh Panth's batting achievements in his lone FC season aside, clearly the selectors feel that his keeping is not ready for international cricket.  so that's that.  

 

And however popular and feel-good, bashing the "incompetent selectors" theme may be, don't forget they are the ones who picked Jayant Yadav for this series while majority of ICF "pundits" were clamoring for Kuldeep Yadav etc.  Selectors also got KL Rahul into the international team at an early age.  Got to give credit where its due - maybe they are not as incompetent as you would like to believe.  

Ofcourse Parthiv is a selection error .

If u think after watching Parthiv all these years keeping and again his amateur keeping today , he is the best wicket keeper in Indian domestic keeper , then u are fooling yourself

[Vijy]

Just now, Riju23 said:

I have no idea about Rishabh Pant's keeping, and only have seen his batting briefly. He certainly looks an exciting batsman but I wouldn't want to throw him into the fray before he is ready. I do like the idea though of giving him a match in a low-pressure situation (i.e. with the series already decided) but he probably needs a little more time in domestic cricket. Maybe at the end of the Australia series (when we  are already up 3-0 )?

If we are up 3-0, this should be fine too. There's also the match against Banglas.

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, BeautifulGame said:

Ofcourse Parthiv is a selection error .

If u think after watching Parthiv all these years keeping and again his amateur keeping today , he is the best wicket keeper in Indian domestic keeper , then u are fooling yourself

I have never claimed he was the best wicket-keeper, but as a package, given his batting abilities and experience - a proven bat against international class seam and spin - he was the arguably the best option at the time.  And let's not resort to insults, we can agree to disagree.  Similarly, just becasue the selectors don't think the same way you do, doesn't make them "incompetent".  They have demonstrated competetency multiple times as the quoted examples of JY and Rahul demonstrate.   

[Vijy]

Just now, sandeep said:

I have never claimed he was the best wicket-keeper, but as a package, given his batting abilities and experience - a proven bat against international class seam and spin - he was the arguably the best option at the time.  And let's not resort to insults, we can agree to disagree.  Similarly, just becasue the selectors don't think the same way you do, doesn't make them "incompetent".  They have demonstrated competetency multiple times as the quoted examples of JY and Rahul demonstrate.   

Hmm, I wonder... Rahul's average is in the low 30s, and he has healthy competition for the opener's slot from the likes of Mukund, etc.

 

As for Pappu, I think Saini was the way to go as a temporary option - has come through the long grind of FC, and batted mostly on Lahli pitches (like Jayant). Younger than Pappu, and possibly a decent keeper (hard to do worse).

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Hmm, I wonder... Rahul's average is in the low 30s, and he has healthy competition for the opener's slot from the likes of Mukund, etc.

 

As for Pappu, I think Saini was the way to go as a temporary option - has come through the long grind of FC, and batted mostly on Lahli pitches (like Jayant). Younger than Pappu, and possibly a decent keeper (hard to do worse).

Oh come on - until 24 hours ago, nobody here even knew who Saini was.  Has he been selected for Irani trophy etc?  Now all of a sudden, he should have been playing for India already.  Don't succumb to conventional group-think "wisdom" so quick.

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Oh come on - until 24 hours ago, nobody here even knew who Saini was.  Has he been selected for Irani trophy etc?  Now all of a sudden, he should have been playing for India already.  Don't succumb to conventional group-think "wisdom" so quick.

But his name has been appearing in the stats list even earlier (not just this year). I'm sure that RKT may have posted about him before. Has nothing to do with group-think here - just pick the best domestic performers (think Saini has played in Duleep, but not Irani).

 

Besides, one may just as well say that very few had heard of Jayant Yadav (compared to, for e.g. upcoming options such as Kuldeep) and here he is now.

[fineleg]

If you watched the match closely,

Parthiv Patel keeping , nothing short of horrible!

Post your views on Pappu (as WICKET KEEPER)

 

Who is going to do Saha's role at Madras, Test-5 ? Any chance for CM Gautam or Saini or some other?

Is Naman Ojha still injured??

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by fineleg

[Vijy]

I wonder about Ojha too... hope he is recovering well soon.

[BeautifulGame]

I have never claimed he was the best wicket-keeper, but as a package, given his batting abilities and experience - a proven bat against international class seam and spin - he was the arguably the best option at the time.  And let's not resort to insults, we can agree to disagree.  Similarly, just becasue the selectors don't think the same way you do, doesn't make them "incompetent".  They have demonstrated competetency multiple times as the quoted examples of JY and Rahul demonstrate.   

Having experience if it is bad experience is no use .There is a huge difference between not the best wicket keeper and being an incompetent wicket keeper and not good enough for international cricket.He was dropped from the national team because his keeping was good enough , so what has he done to suggest to be the complete package All he has shown in this test is that he has continued to be a incompetent keeper .

Yeah right selectors never make mistake .That's why they left ourselves with no back up opener for 3rd test that we had to force Vijay with a bad back to play .

Anyway If saying fooling yourself is resorting to insults ,then better leave this debate as it is .Pointless

[fineleg]

Can we get Mahendra Singh Dhoni  for one Test at Madras? As a special case :)

He scored 200 vs Aus at Madras and does great keeping for spinners?
Just a one night stand, err One Test stand, Mahi bhaai?

ON SPECIAL DUTY FOR INDIA

Edited December 11, 2016 by fineleg

[Vijy]

15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Oh come on - until 24 hours ago, nobody here even knew who Saini was.  Has he been selected for Irani trophy etc?  Now all of a sudden, he should have been playing for India already.  Don't succumb to conventional group-think "wisdom" so quick.

Group-think "wisdom" of the selectors gave us Pappu. Yes, he batted very well in the last match, but I believe that a keeper's job is to keep. And what I've seen in this match has been unbearably painful to match - maybe Pappu hasn't spilled too many chances, but the way he's collected so many balls poorly has been horrible to watch. Yesterday, I kept seeing him constantly fumbling, parrying the ball to slip, and the ball popping out of his gloves became so repetitive. In fact, even when people were throwing the ball back, he kept dropping it, deflecting it, etc. It's not just about the numbers - Pappu, at least for me, has been painful to watch.

 

I'd rather see some untested fellow (group-think or not) been given a chance.

[sandeep]

Better to leave this debate because you are cherry-picking and attributing things to me that I never said. Not an honest discussion at this point.  Where did I say Selectors never make a mistake?   And glossing over what Parthiv brings to the table as a batsman is also intellectually dishonest.  Especially in the context that we are playing a quality team with only 5 pure batsmen.  Let's just agree to disagree.

[Vijy]

7 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Can we get Mahendra Singh Dhoni  for one Test at Madras? As a special case :)

He scored 200 vs Aus at Madras and does great keeping for spinners?
Just a one night stand, err One Test stand, Mahi bhaai?

ON SPECIAL DUTY FOR INDIA

We will need to keep asking him for many "1 more Test please" stuff - Dhoni was imperious in Ind and SC - I think he averaged around 47 or so.

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

 Yes, he batted very well in the last match, but I believe that a keeper's job is to keep. And what I've seen in this match has been unbearably painful to match - maybe Pappu hasn't spilled too many chances, but the way he's collected so many balls poorly has been horrible to watch. Yesterday, I kept seeing him constantly fumbling, parrying the ball to slip, and the ball popping out of his gloves became so repetitive. In fact, even when people were throwing the ball back, he kept dropping it, deflecting it, etc. It's not just about the numbers - Pappu, at least for me, has been painful to watch.

 

I'd rather see some untested fellow (group-think or not) been given a chance.

I don't disagree.  Pappu's keeping has been a disappointment and not at anacceptable level.  But my point earlier was that given that you inducted him into battle, now to chuck him out would send the wrong message regarding selection policies as a whole.  

 

Now, in a hypothetical scenario, if Saha had been injured now, with the series decided already, I definitely would be in favor of trying out a new face instead of going to Patel - no question.  But at 1-0 with 3 left to play, it was a different scenario.

[Vijy]

Just now, sandeep said:

I don't disagree.  Pappu's keeping has been a disappointment and not at anacceptable level.  But my point earlier was that given that you inducted him into battle, now to chuck him out would send the wrong message regarding selection policies as a whole.  

 

Now, in a hypothetical scenario, if Saha had been injured now, with the series decided already, I definitely would be in favor of trying out a new face instead of going to Patel - no question.  But at 1-0 with 3 left to play, it was a different scenario.

Is the same squad fixed for the next Test? Chucking Pappu may send the wrong message, and come across as selectors being fickle I guess. But, keeping him may convince promising players that they will not be given chances unless they have come through the grind and have large amounts of FC experience.

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Is the same squad fixed for the next Test? Chucking Pappu may send the wrong message, and come across as selectors being fickle I guess. But, keeping him may convince promising players that they will not be given chances unless they have come through the grind and have large amounts of FC experience.

Not necessarily - Pandya was picked in the test squad without too much FC experience.  Not sure how much FC experience KL Rahul, Mukund, heck even Murali Vijay's debut was a quick rise as well.    There have been plenty of examples of meteoric risers to the Indian Team.  But not eveyone is worthy of that, and for some players it can harm their long-term prospects too - Parthiv's a classic example.  

 

At an age of 18 where he should have been working on improving his 'keeping at FC level, and building instinct and muscle memory - he was added to the team, and then he couldn't make the required improvements at that level and ended up regressing.  Its fate that he has gotten a few chances since then.  You never know, he could have matured and improved as a 'keeper and could have turned into a longterm solution given his proven batting skills.   In any case, that's all history.  And Parthiv's regression allowed a legend like MS Dhoni to come into the team, so all's well that ends well.  

[sandeep]

Admins, merge the thread please...

[Laaloo]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Admins, merge the thread please...

thanks

 

in the future, please use the @ and tag mods names so we get notifications.

 

P.S The OP has a history of seeking attention by creating unnecessary threads. Not the first time and not the last time

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, laaloo said:

thanks

 

in the future, please use the @ and tag mods names so we get notifications.

 

P.S The OP has a history of seeking attention by creating unnecessary threads. Not the first time and not the last time

Why don't you create a generic @ "Admin" I looked for that but didnt find it...

[Laaloo]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Why don't you create a generic @ "Admin" I looked for that but didnt find it...

I don't think you can but I'll let others know and see if there's a better way.