Umesh Yadav : An enigma

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

He still is the most expensive fast bowler to play for India in the last 2 months. In the last series, he was the 2nd most expensive fast bowler from either side, with only Ben Stokes going for a higher economy rate. 

 

His improvement is not good enough to merit a place in the team. He should be turfed- he has had his chances and this is as close to his best as we can realistically expect : he is in his physical peak ( 29 years old. 27-33 is usually the physical peak for fast bowlers), has been playing international cricket for 5+ years. Not much ceiling left for him. Plus plenty of bowlers have been turfed despite doing better. Just coz Umesh is one of those who 'looks good in fits and spurts'.

No. he was't...Bhuvi was the most expensive proper pacer  from either side, Jennings being a part-timer.  Umesh was 4th.

 

Anyway, anyone who has actually seen those test matches knows that Umesh was bowling mostly in the right areas as he did in the ODi series against NZ. Most  international players have been quite impressed by this improvement and Steyn tweeted praising him too.

 

Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
KK Jennings (ENG)	2	1	5.0	1	20	0	-	-	-	4.00	-	0	0
B Kumar (INDIA)	1	2	17.0	1	60	1	1/11	1/60	60.00	3.52	102.0	0	0
JT Ball (ENG)	2	2	41.0	7	140	1	1/47	1/47	140.00	3.41	246.0	0	0
BA Stokes (ENG)	5	8	106.2	16	357	8	5/73	5/89	44.62	3.35	79.7	1	0
UT Yadav (INDIA)	5	10	143.5	23	464	8	2/58	3/109	58.00	3.22	107.8	0	0
CR Woakes (ENG)	3	5	77.0	16	244	3	1/6	1/63	81.33	3.16	154.0	0	0
SCJ Broad (ENG)	3	5	89.0	24	248	8	4/33	5/82	31.00	2.78	66.7	0	0
JM Anderson (ENG)	3	5	79.0	17	214	4	3/62	4/95	53.50	2.70	118.5	0	0
Mohammed Shami (INDIA)	3	6	103.0	22	252	10	3/63	5/100	25.20	2.44	61.8	0	0
I Sharma (INDIA)	1	2	31.0	8	59	3	2/42	3/59	19.66	1.90	62.0	0	0

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;qualmax1=1000;qualmin1=10;qualval1=overs;spanmin1=09+Nov+2016;spanval1=span;team=1;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by express bowling

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

No. he was't...Bhuvi was the most expensive proper pacer  from either side, Jennings being a part-timer.  Umesh was 4th.

 

Anyway, anyone who has actually seen those test matches knows that Umesh was bowling mostly in the right areas as he did in the ODi series against NZ.

 

Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
KK Jennings (ENG)	2	1	5.0	1	20	0	-	-	-	4.00	-	0	0
B Kumar (INDIA)	1	2	17.0	1	60	1	1/11	1/60	60.00	3.52	102.0	0	0
JT Ball (ENG)	2	2	41.0	7	140	1	1/47	1/47	140.00	3.41	246.0	0	0
BA Stokes (ENG)	5	8	106.2	16	357	8	5/73	5/89	44.62	3.35	79.7	1	0
UT Yadav (INDIA)	5	10	143.5	23	464	8	2/58	3/109	58.00	3.22	107.8	0	0
CR Woakes (ENG)	3	5	77.0	16	244	3	1/6	1/63	81.33	3.16	154.0	0	0
SCJ Broad (ENG)	3	5	89.0	24	248	8	4/33	5/82	31.00	2.78	66.7	0	0
JM Anderson (ENG)	3	5	79.0	17	214	4	3/62	4/95	53.50	2.70	118.5	0	0
Mohammed Shami (INDIA)	3	6	103.0	22	252	10	3/63	5/100	25.20	2.44	61.8	0	0
I Sharma (INDIA)	1	2	31.0	8	59	3	2/42	3/59	19.66	1.90	62.0	0	0

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;qualmax1=1000;qualmin1=10;qualval1=overs;spanmin1=09+Nov+2016;spanval1=span;team=1;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

bowling in the right areas but getting creamed is called 'having the right idea, failing to execute'. an overpitched yorker is still bowled in the 'right area' and still gets creamed.

 

Sure, Bhuvi & Ball were marginally more expensive- but they only had 57 overs between them, Umesh had 2.5x as much overs and still was only marginally better in economy. 
And as anyone who's seen the series will tell you, Umesh had some of the most expensive spells during the series. Typical of a bowler who cant keep it together very well.

Umesh is without a doubt, the worst pacer India plays in international cricket on a consistent basis and one of the worst pacers to've represented India.

Utter, utter crap. Bowlers like Umesh are a case study in why we would rather have a toothless medium pacer who can atleast keep the runs down over a fast bowler who can neither keep the runs down nor take wickets.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Mosher]

38 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Yadav may not be as accurate as Glenn Mcgrath, but his speed is his Unique Selling Point. While we hope Yadav achieves half of Mcgrath’s accuracy, we don’t want him to compromise on his pace. 

Where did you get this article from? Looks like an old one...

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

bowling in the right areas but getting creamed is called 'having the right idea, failing to execute'. an overpitched yorker is still bowled in the 'right area' and still gets creamed.

 

Sure, Bhuvi & Ball were marginally more expensive- but they only had 57 overs between them, Umesh had 2.5x as much overs and still was only marginally better in economy. 
And as anyone who's seen the series will tell you, Umesh had some of the most expensive spells during the series. Typical of a bowler who cant keep it together very well.

Umesh is without a doubt, the worst pacer India plays in international cricket on a consistent basis and one of the worst pacers to've represented India.

Utter, utter crap. Bowlers like Umesh are a case study in why we would rather have a toothless medium pacer who can atleast keep the runs down over a fast bowler who can neither keep the runs down nor take wickets.

 

 

This series was played on flat pitches and ER of 3.2  by Umesh is hardly getting creamed in such situations.  Almost all good  bowlers were in the range of 2.7 to 3.3 in that series.

 

You can want what you want, does not really matter an iota,  but he will be playing the next test series if fit.

Edited January 18, 2017 by express bowling

[Muloghonto]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

This series was played on flat pitches and ER of 3.2  by Umesh is hardly getting creamed in such situations.  Many good bowlers were in the range of 2.7 to 3.3 in that series.

 

You can want what you want, does not really matter an iota,  but he will be playing the next test series if fit.

Flat pitches or not, he was still the most expensive frontline pacer who played most of the series. As i said, he is a guy who cant take wickets or keep it tight. He needs to go because he is consistently the worst pacer we have. Just has pace, no control. 

 

He will be playing next series, for the same reason Mohammed Sami played so many matches.

If your contention is 'you can say what you want, but he will play', then by default, you should never question any selection ever, because then 'you can say what you want, but he will play/not play' applies too.

 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

Flat pitches or not, he was still the most expensive frontline pacer who played most of the series. As i said, he is a guy who cant take wickets or keep it tight. He needs to go because he is consistently the worst pacer we have. Just has pace, no control. 

 

He will be playing next series, for the same reason Mohammed Sami played so many matches.

If your contention is 'you can say what you want, but he will play', then by default, you should never question any selection ever, because then 'you can say what you want, but he will play/not play' applies too.

 

ER of 3.2 is not expensive for pacers in test matches in India, you are not getting that.  Woakes, Broad and Anderson went at 3.2, 2.8 and 2.7 respectively  and all are known to be accurate pacers.

 

You are nitpicking minor differences in ER to suit your statement.

 

I am saying what you say do not matter because you are not judging his bowling in the last series and just going by your earlier perception....and that always results in wrong decisions.

[Mosher]

Botham and Nasser were constantly praising Umesh's bowling in the test series and so did Steyn. But I guess some ICF'ers know more about fast bowling than these cricketers.

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

ER of 3.2 is not expensive for pacers in test matches in India, you are not getting that.  Woakes, Broad and Anderson went at 3.2, 2.8 and 2.7 respectively  and all are known to be accurate pacers.

 

You are nitpicking minor differences in ER to suit your statement.

 

I am saying what you say do not matter because you are not judging his bowling in the last series and just going by your earlier perception....and that always results in wrong decisions.

Everything is relative. 3.2 is not expensive if everyone else is going at 4. 3.2 is horrible when everyone else is going at 2.5

Point is, he was the most expensive frontline pacer to've played through the series. 

And yes, i am going by his bowling performance. He had some of the most expensive spells in the game and when batsmen look to attack, he is the worst bowling option we have. Sure, he benefited when batsmen were looking to consolidate, but he is a liability for our team.

Nomatter how you slice and dice the stats, there is no justification to persisting with Umesh. As i noted, he is 29. Not 21. There is hardly any ceiling left, this is most likely, the best he will ever be. So lets get rid of him because his best is just not good enough.

 

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, Mosher said:

Botham and Nasser were constantly praising Umesh's bowling in the test series and so did Steyn. But I guess some ICF'ers know more about fast bowling than these cricketers.

You want me to post how many experts were raving about how good Mohammed Sami used to bowl in certain fits and spurts ?

Umesh is a crap bowler. His stats show that pretty well. 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Everything is relative. 3.2 is not expensive if everyone else is going at 4. 3.2 is horrible when everyone else is going at 2.5

Point is, he was the most expensive frontline pacer to've played through the series. 

And yes, i am going by his bowling performance. He had some of the most expensive spells in the game and when batsmen look to attack, he is the worst bowling option we have. Sure, he benefited when batsmen were looking to consolidate, but he is a liability for our team.

Nomatter how you slice and dice the stats, there is no justification to persisting with Umesh. As i noted, he is 29. Not 21. There is hardly any ceiling left, this is most likely, the best he will ever be. So lets get rid of him because his best is just not good enough.

 

What  are you saying   !!!!   ....Stokes was going  at 3.4 , Woakes at 3.2, Broad at 2.8 and Anderson at 2.7....

Edited January 18, 2017 by express bowling

[Texan]

No doubt about it that Umesh Yadav definitely is one of the fittest guys in the team. That fitness has helped not just in him being able to bowl long spells, but also, his fielding in the outfield is much better than some of our other pacers. It is also refreshing to see that a bowler that started off at 140ks still bowls at 140ks, unlike all our other pacers that have lost their speed gun pace after getting into the Indian team.

 

Having said that though, Umesh Yadav has been given far too many opportunities for far too many disappointments. He is a scattergun and there is nothing he can do about it. It just comes with the package. Bowl fast, spray the ball. We have invested heavily in him in the hope that he will turn the corner, but that has not happened yet even after he has been around in the team for 5-6 years now.

 

Take a look at the bowlers with the worst economy rate in the last 10 years in ODIs (min 2000 balls bowled). No prizes for guessing who tops the list.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=balls;spanmax2=17+Jan+2017;spanmin1=01+Jan+2007;spanval1=span;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Texan said:

No doubt about it that Umesh Yadav definitely is one of the fittest guys in the team. That fitness has helped not just in him being able to bowl long spells, but also, his fielding in the outfield is much better than some of our other pacers. It is also refreshing to see that a bowler that started off at 140ks still bowls at 140ks, unlike all our other pacers that have lost their speed gun pace after getting into the Indian team.

 

Having said that though, Umesh Yadav has been given far too many opportunities for far too many disappointments. He is a scattergun and there is nothing he can do about it. It just comes with the package. Bowl fast, spray the ball. We have invested heavily in him in the hope that he will turn the corner, but that has not happened yet even after he has been around in the team for 5-6 years now.

 

Take a look at the bowlers with the worst economy rate in the last 10 years in ODIs (min 2000 balls bowled). No prizes for guessing who tops the list.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=balls;spanmax2=17+Jan+2017;spanmin1=01+Jan+2007;spanval1=span;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

Most of the people here do not want Umesh in ODIs. We are not the people picking him in the side, but thing is selectors are not ready to try new options and keep recycling TTFs.

[Muloghonto]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

What  are you saying   !!!!   ....Stokes was going  at 3.4 , Woakes at 3.2, Broad at 2.8 and Anderson at 2.7....

I am saying that except for Stokes, he was the most expensive pacer to play most of the series. And Stokes isn't a frontline pacer,he is England's 3rd pacer away/4th pacer at home. 

 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Most of the people here do not want Umesh in ODIs. We are not the people picking him in the side, but thing is selectors are not ready to try new options and keep recycling TTFs.

New ODI pacers need to be tried.....don't know why this is not being done by the selectors even in practice matches and A team games.

 

Nathu, Sran, Siraj and Natarajan ....all have ODI potential and only Sran has been tried.

[Texan]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Most of the people here do not want Umesh in ODIs. We are not the people picking him in the side, but thing is selectors are not ready to try new options and keep recycling TTFs.

Track the other thread, there are posters who were even trying to justify his atrocious record in ODIs in the last 2 years seduced by his 140k thunderbolts.

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Most of the people here do not want Umesh in ODIs. We are not the people picking him in the side, but thing is selectors are not ready to try new options and keep recycling TTFs.

Well, he should be dumped in every format.

As i keep saying, if we want to put up with substandard performance, we are better off with bowlers who have a lot of development potential left.

Umesh is 29 and his biggest asset is pace. Heck, thats his ONLY asset. Have you ever seen a pace bowler get faster after 29 ? Have you ever seen a pace bowler who sprays it around all his life, turn accurate after he is 29 ? The answer is no or very, very rarely.

Point is, Umesh is at the peak of his performance. He doesn't have much ceiling left to achieve. 

 

If you want a bowler who will go for 3.5-4 RPO and take less than 2 wickets/match at 40+ average, you are better off with a young guy who has a lot of development potential left.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

I am saying that except for Stokes, he was the most expensive pacer to play most of the series. And Stokes isn't a frontline pacer,he is England's 3rd pacer away/4th pacer at home. 

 

That is just being pedantic.  There was no practical difference between the ERs of Woakes, Umesh and Broad from a test match point of view.

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

That is just being pedantic.  There was no practical difference between the ERs of Woakes, Umesh and Broad from a test match point of view.

It still underscores the point that Umesh is a horrible bowler who can neither take wickets, nor contain.

We simply have no reason to try Umesh any longer. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Muloghonto

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

It still underscores the point that Umesh is a horrible bowler who can neither take wickets, nor contain.

We simply have no reason to try Umesh any longer. 

If a pacer bowls in good areas with pace, bounce and even small movements.....he is bound to pick up wickets in test cricket.

 

Before the England series, Umesh was not doing that consistently enough.

 

Now that we are seeing accuracy, bounce and even yorkers ( in ODIs )   introduced in his repertoire, it would be short-sighted to drop him after investing in him for so long.  It would be like Captain Mallory giving up the mission after climbing that steep mountain in the Guns of Navarone.

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

if all the other bowlers were doing great then you could have said there is no need for umesh ,other than bhuvi, shami ,bumrah ,ishant who else is there who can keep it tight or take wickets ? dhawal too had some success in odis but he too is injured, shami has been injured ,it is basically bhuvi vs umesh and umesh came in as bhuvi got hit in 2015 now bhuvi will come back.it is not like there are many options .if you dont agree tell me whom you would have picked over the last 2-3 years over umesh

That doesn't scream lack of options. We are likely to play 2 pacers for this year, at most 3. Those 3 should come from the 4 names above and if injured, slot in the performers from FC cricket.