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Shivam Dubey

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his big hitting capabilities are known by one and all...if he bowls well, he will have chance to play in t20 world cup.

its his bowling that's going to decide his future as just a big hitter cannot keep him in indian team for sure.

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19 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Congratulations to him for his maiden 50. Looked like a quintessential Pakistani leg side hack tbh. If he is to be India's late order hitter he cannot be this limited. I hope he has offside game as well. 

And a front foot game as well. His go-to shot seems to be getting front foot out of the way and golf-swinging. Hope he has a front foot and off side game as well, else will soon be found wanting against quality bowling

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7 hours ago, SK_IH said:

Congratulations to him for his maiden 50. Looked like a quintessential Pakistani leg side hack tbh. If he is to be India's late order hitter he cannot be this limited. I hope he has offside game as well. 

 

6 hours ago, bowl_out said:

And a front foot game as well. His go-to shot seems to be getting front foot out of the way and golf-swinging. Hope he has a front foot and off side game as well, else will soon be found wanting against quality bowling

 

He has a FC average of 48. And that is not likely for just a leg side hack.

 

Opinions formed about batsmen, after watching them in a few T20s, is not always fully correct.

 

I think the role assigned to him was to up the ante and trying to hit most balls.

Edited by express bowling

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7 hours ago, SK_IH said:

Congratulations to him for his maiden 50. Looked like a quintessential Pakistani leg side hack tbh. If he is to be India's late order hitter he cannot be this limited. I hope he has offside game as well. 

will get better with time

Player improve once they are found out.....so wnt be even bad if he gets found out

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47 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Lol at the posters finding proper batting technique in t20. They want these guys to have technique like Tendulkar and hit like Russell. :cantstop:

 

If we get a Tendulkar now, we will complain that we don't have 6 hitting power game.

 

If we get a Russell we will say that he is a hack.  :phehe:

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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27 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I give you two and you make the connection

vrp1541_1575816367_618x347.jpeg

Yuvraj-singh-696x392.jpg

I used to think they're similar but after yesterday's innings I think they couldn't be more different. Yuvraj was a clean striker and relied on timing. Dube seems more like a slogger that swings hard and hopes there's enough power behind his shot to clear the boundary. 

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6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He has a FC average of 48. And that is not likely for just a leg side hack.

 

Opinions formed about batsmen, after watching them in a few T20s, is not always fully correct.

 

I think the role assigned to him was to up the ante and trying to hit most balls.

Do not know what you are trying to suggest here with his first class average. The problem is not being a hack but being limited. He looked very one dimensional in his hitting zone. That rookie Walsh worked him out in 2 balls, bowled wide and got him out of his comfort zone.

His utility in the side will be quick runs down order, where he ll need to expand his area of hitting. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Do not know what you are trying to suggest here with his first class average. The problem is not being a hack but being limited. He looked very one dimensional in his hitting zone. That rookie Walsh worked him out in 2 balls, bowled wide and got him out of his comfort zone.

His utility in the side will be quick runs down order, where he ll need to expand his area of hitting. 

 

 

Batters with high or high-ish FC averages rarely achieve this if they have just 1 hitting zone.

 

I have seen him bat in FC ... he plays different types of shots including off-drives and lofted off-drives.

 

We need to give him quite a few games before we get to know about his efficacy in international cricket.

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15 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Batters with high or high-ish FC averages rarely achieve this if they have just 1 hitting zone.

 

I have seen him bat in FC ... he plays different types of shots including off-drives and lofted off-drives.

 

We need to give him quite a few games before we get to know about his efficacy in international cricket.

Wrong about hitting zone. high FC avg is all about being selective with shot selections and waiting for bowlers to bowl to your strength.

 

Cook is prime example in test, he has very limited hitting zones but it worked very well for him as he was patient.

Odis it is all about taking singles and hitting odd boundaries.Dhoni is prime example for this, he stinks in t20s as he does not have ability to hit the ball where it is pitched and can be controlled very easily.

 

T20s you need to have  the ability to hit in multiple zones otherwise you will struggle.

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I can understand someone who saw Dube for the first time in the last match dismissing him as a hack. But it was pretty much his first real opportunity with the bat playing for India so don't expect refined and effortless strokeplay. After all these years, Kohli is still made to look agricultural in this format. And we all know how Dhoni has fared. T20 is that kind of format, unforgivable. So yeah, the point is best to wait before spouting forth judgment on the new recruit.

Edited by sarchasm

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6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He has a FC average of 48. And that is not likely for just a leg side hack.

 

Opinions formed about batsmen, after watching them in a few T20s, is not always fully correct.

 

I think the role assigned to him was to up the ante and trying to hit most balls.

Power hitters having avg of 48 in FC despite having technique issues is not surprised, because you always get some weak bowlers and weak sides to cash in at that level.

That said, I still called out that I hope he has a more rounded game, but it wasn't evident in yesterday's match despite the 50. We need to see him for a few more games.

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4 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

Power hitters having avg of 48 in FC despite having technique issues is not surprised, because you always get some weak bowlers and weak sides to cash in at that level.

Thats not in his control whatever bowler he gets in domestic he scores, we also forget he scored against A sides of WI n SA they wont have that weak bowlers

4 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

That said, I still called out that I hope he has a more rounded game, but it wasn't evident in yesterday's match despite the 50. We need to see him for a few more games.

If anything was evident that he atleast has power , on surfaces where guys like kohli , rohit struggled coz of its sluggishness this guy had the power to clear boundary. Now other aspects remains to be seen

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7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Wrong about hitting zone. high FC avg is all about being selective with shot selections and waiting for bowlers to bowl to your strength.

Cook is prime example in test, he has very limited hitting zones but it worked very well for him as he was patient.

 

" Hitting zones " have to be considered in the context of the batsman.  Cook did not have any hitting zone by modern standards ... but was not dependant on only 1 shot or 1 area to score runs. 

 

Someone like a Dube, with a FC strike rate if 67,  does not really wait for the bowler to bowl to his strength even in FC.  And most modern batters are like that. They don't have the patience. 

 

The batting days of Ravi Shastri, with his chapati shot,  and Geoff Boycott are over.

 

 

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

T20s you need to have  the ability to hit in multiple zones otherwise you will struggle.

 

True.  But Dube is not such a batsman in domestic cricket atleast.

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17 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

" Hitting zones " have to be considered in the context of the batsman.  Cook did not have any hitting zone by modern standards ... but was not dependant on only 1 shot or 1 area to score runs. 

 

Someone like a Dube, with a FC strike rate if 67,  does not really wait for the bowler to bowl to his strength even in FC.  And most modern batters are like that. They don't have the patience. 

 

The batting days of Ravi Shastri, with his chapati shot,  and Geoff Boycott are over.

 

 

 

True.  But Dube is not such a batsman in domestic cricket atleast.

First I would not put Ravi Shastri and Boycott in same level.Dubey's FC avg is very misleading just like Shankar both are bits and pieces players.

I like Dubey better as he seems to have better range of shots and he is the only guy in the system who can use long handle from no 5 or lower which is still yet to be seen in Dubey's case.

 

I would play him in odis too and if possible send him at no 3 to let him settle in international cricket.

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8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

First I would not put Ravi Shastri and Boycott in same level.

 

We were not discussing levels ... but batsmen who did well or decently in FC with a single primary scoring shot or very limited shots.

 

It existed till the 1990s ... but very rare now.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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17 hours ago, putrevus said:

Wrong about hitting zone. high FC avg is all about being selective with shot selections and waiting for bowlers to bowl to your strength.

 

Cook is prime example in test, he has very limited hitting zones but it worked very well for him as he was patient.

Odis it is all about taking singles and hitting odd boundaries.Dhoni is prime example for this, he stinks in t20s as he does not have ability to hit the ball where it is pitched and can be controlled very easily.

 

T20s you need to have  the ability to hit in multiple zones otherwise you will struggle.

But then cook has a very low Strike rate while Dubey scores quickly.

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4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

But then cook has a very low Strike rate while Dubey scores quickly.

In FC SR does not matter much that is the point. Cook became very successful because he knew his limitations and he built this game around his strong point which was patience.

 

I would not classify Dubey or Shankar as batsmen at all.They are just bits and pieces players who bat better than they bowl.That does not make them batsmen.Dubey is worth investing time as he is leftie but it still needs to be seen if he can tonk the ball from no5 or below.He will be facing mostly fast bowlers at the death can he handle them?

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35 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I would not classify Dubey or Shankar as batsmen at all.They are just bits and pieces players who bat better than they bowl.

Shankar, to be fair, looks more like a batsman who can bowl a bit. Dubey, so far, is a true bits and pieces guy to me. 

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I would say do not dismiss Dubey right away.  He has his plus points . 

1. If the ball is pitched up , he will hit down the ground powerfully even against quick bowlers. 

 2. Has a long reach and can easily reach good length deliveries from spinners .

 3. I feel he can be threat for opposition spinners if he is selective  unless such spinners are really good.

  

One could make out the way WI bowlers bowled at him. Avoided bowling length deliveries and spinners tried bowling wide of his hitting zone .  

Issue right now seems to be his game vs shortish stuff. Looks like quick guys will trouble him .

Few things he needs to quickly develop

1. Find way not to get out to short stuff bouncers and get some runs 1, 2  runs ( 1 cannot bowl more than 2 bouncers)

2. Practice and become good at Pull shot ( as this kind of delivery will be dished out more once 2 bouncer per over quota gets over)

3. Have reverse sweep ready as most spinners are going to bowl wide of off stump. Once he reverse sweeps them , bowlers will start bowling nearer to hitting zone. Also this will open up areas from point to long on for him to hit even if they bowl outside off stump.

4. Once he shows some development in these areas , watch out for good length stuff with change of pace from bowlers .

 

If i were to coach , i will ask him to work on these for next 6 months  and then see the results .

 

In fact there is lot of improvements needed even with some our young guys . 

Iyer  - very good vs spin hitting down the ground  Long on to mid wicket . But most of the time this his hitting zone .He needs to play more his offside shots  inside out , arial shots over off side in field .  reverse sweeps  esp when bowlers bowl  wide of off stump.  more options of shots like pull , cut vs pace . Not that he does not have these shots but does not play them much with control and often gets out . 

Pant - Too much dependency on leg side . Playing horizontal slogs , sweeps always hitting in the air almost every shot . Bowlers just try to make him play aerially to leg side with good field placements . If he can start hitting such deliveries over point , covers , back over bowlers head, long off  based on length , he will become a better bat and then setting filed for him becomes tough and this throws lot more gaps .

Too much stress on power and loosing the grip . he should playing shots without losing balance or grip. That's what  coach  should  be doing with him.

 

But have we seen any improvements in these areas  by them ?? No. 

This is the job of the Main Coach ( who was batsman) and Batting coach. 

But Alas , both these fellows Bewda & Rathod are just doing man management but no  serious  coaching stuff it seems.

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On 11/30/2018 at 8:28 PM, putrevus said:

Sorry this guy to me looks already better than Hardik Pandya in bowling and I hope he gets into world cup team.

 

On 11/30/2018 at 8:51 PM, putrevus said:

Hardik is pace bowler?? Hardik is a trundler too who other banging in short knows nothing , this guy looks like has general idea on how to bowl and is taller than Pandya.He looks like he is better batsman too.

 

On 12/2/2018 at 12:30 AM, putrevus said:

I agree this guy looks better than both Pandya bros, and as a bowler looks like bowling heavy ball like Kallis. To be fair we need to see him facing international bowlers.

 

And this guy says we have no talent in country.....clearly what an eye for talent that he claimed dubey bowling was better then pandya. Shows how quicky he judges someone and ends up getting proved wrong 

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Kohli is too afraid to lose low importance or low profile bilateral LOIs.

 

Always ends up feeling comfortable with experienced players around him.

 

This is why he has been unable to develop young players.

 

And this is why he has been unable to win big tournaments. 

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