Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[sandeep]

45 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bhuvi rarely bowls a bad ball ever.   His increased pace of 130 k to 140 k is good enough for international cricket. Pace is not a problem....but at that pace a test bowler needs more bounce. More often than not, the ball does not swing in test cricket and then the weapon for seam bowlers become sudden bounce with small seam movement.  Bhuvi wins you games in T20s and in test matches in England and occasionally in ODIs.....not in other places or formats. 

 

Economy has always been his strong point in any format but he has taken 29 wickets from 12 test matches and  60 wickets from 57 ODIs ....and that indicates difficulty faced to take wickets in these 2 formats.

 

Look at any pacer bowl in test cricket.  Provided they have decent accuracy.....they take wickets in different places if they get bounce from some deliveries and don't get wickets when they don't get bounce.  The only exceptions would be test matches in swing-friendly places like England  or if a bowler can reverse the ball at 145 k.

Wickets are not guaranteed with pace and bounce.  Look at Wahab Riaz, always gets good pace and bounce, but look at his average.  He was even benched by Pakistan previous test.  At the end of the day, the best of the pacers we have should play - whoever that is.  I'm not dead-set against Yadav, I dearly hope he gets better.  And clearly we have seen Virat invest in him big-time.  But Bhuvi is also part of the solution, not the problem.  Let's see how he does the rest of the match.  I have no problems benching him if he doesn't get wickets.  But give the guy a fair chance - he has worked hard and improved his game.  You can't just write him off like that for test matches without auditioning him.  Its not like the other options are covering themselves in glory.  Let all of them have opportunity and may the better bowler step up and make the spot their own by taking wickets for Team India.   As it is, in modern day cricket, teams need a pool of pacers - not all guys are going to be fit all the time.  

[MCcricket]

Bhuvi is not cut for test cricket, simple n the Geniuses , selectors, cannot figure it out yet, lol ,  bowling around 130 last evening n not getting any bounce or swing seam is useless, if he was 6 7" tall or if he can ave 35 with bat, that's the only way I see him having a successful test career

[express bowling]

57 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Wickets are not guaranteed with pace and bounce.  Look at Wahab Riaz, always gets good pace and bounce, but look at his average.  He was even benched by Pakistan previous test.  At the end of the day, the best of the pacers we have should play - whoever that is.  I'm not dead-set against Yadav, I dearly hope he gets better.  And clearly we have seen Virat invest in him big-time.  But Bhuvi is also part of the solution, not the problem.  Let's see how he does the rest of the match.  I have no problems benching him if he doesn't get wickets.  But give the guy a fair chance - he has worked hard and improved his game.  You can't just write him off like that for test matches without auditioning him.  Its not like the other options are covering themselves in glory.  Let all of them have opportunity and may the better bowler step up and make the spot their own by taking wickets for Team India.   As it is, in modern day cricket, teams need a pool of pacers - not all guys are going to be fit all the time.  

I am not talking about extra pace here at all...so Wahab's case is not relevant. 

 

I am talking about the ability to get some balls to bounce extra than the rest in a sequence of deliveries bowled, preferably from similar lengths.

 

I am a nobody as far as international cricket is concerned....so it does not matter what I think. Bhuvi will get his chances in test matches if  the team management  wants.

 

But, I feel , that if Bhuvi can improve this aspect  of surprise bounce , like he has improved his pace....he will be a much better test bowler. ( Bhuvi has improved his bounce too, by the way  ...but it needs further improvement )

 

Yadav has this ability but does not use the surprise bounce sufficiently or regularly because he does not use his head. Whenever he does, he looks like a much better pacer.

 

We need thinking fast bowlers who combine skills with pace and bounce.

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, sandeep said:

 I'm not dead-set against Yadav, I dearly hope he gets better.  

Yadav is certainly better than BK when it comes to test cricket.

[rkt.india]

Also, do not understand  why Aaron was dropped from this team. He had done reasonable well against SA and had bowled with a far better accuracy. West Indies pitches too would have suited his kind of bowling. Shardul is not going to get a single game, so, a place is wasted here. Aaron could have played at least 1-2 games.

[rkt.india]

Likes of Shardul and BK will do well in England. 

[express bowling]

Ishant is basically in the team for his bounce and Aaron  gets good bounce too at higher pace.  Could have been a replacement for Ishant.  Aaron has been getting reverse swing too in the last year.

[express bowling]

40 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

bhuvi has hardly played since that eng tour ,needs to be given some time to succeed or fail or else no one will settle down also yadav has a better record in india  bhuvi has a better record away .

Bhuvi does well if there is swing on offer. His inclusion in this test match is perhaps because this ground has low stands and there is constant breeze. Also. as it is expected to rain, overcast conditions might prevail and aid swing.  Today, if it is overcast but play is possible then Bhuvi might pick up wickets.

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Ishant is basically in the team for his bounce and Aaron  gets good bounce too at higher pace.  Could have been a replacement for Ishant.  Aaron has been getting reverse swing too in the last year.

Aaron always gets reverse swing when it is available like in his debut ODI series against England. Reverse swing too depends on a lot of factors. 

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Aaron always gets reverse swing when it is available like in his debut ODI series against England. Reverse swing too depends on a lot of factors. 

I know.  In fact, in his first year, he was a very objective and reasonably accurate bowler who used reverse swing where available.  After returning from injury, he lost his accuracy and did not have the confidence to reverse the ball consistently even in helpful conditions, maybe due to his slightly remodeled action and lack of match practice.  Both factors have picked up in the last year.

Edited August 12, 2016 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I know.  In fact, in his first year, he was a very objective and reasonably accurate bowler who used reverse swing where available.  After returning from injury, he lost his accuracy and did not have the confidence to reverse the ball consistently even in helpful conditions.  Both factors have picked up in the last year.

I think Aaron is closer to being a thinking bowler than Ishant and Yadav.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Rightarmfast said:

I think Aaron is closer to being a thinking bowler than Ishant and Yadav.

Absolutely.  In his interviews, Aaron comes across as a smart guy.

 

His frequent  injuries, lack of match practice and action remodeling , has taken a toll on his bowling.

 

 

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Absolutely.  In his interviews, Aaron comes across as a smart guy.

 

His frequent  injuries, lack of match practice and action remodeling , has taken a toll on his bowling.

 

 

His thinking mostly seems right whenever he bowls, just lacks the execution at times which can only get better with practice and more matches under his belt. If he bowls a bouncer, he will bowl with effort unlike Umesh who at times seems to bowl short ball without much thinking and effort which sits up at waist height and gets smashed.

[MCcricket]

Aaron's biggest plus compared to Umesh is he bowls a fuller length which is his natural length, n gets more bounce from fuller length, seams n can swing, also he tends to attack the stumps more and gets good outswing, it is a surprise he is not in the picture, he  should be in the squad and is any day better then BK, Chawal, Ishant, S Thakur, he to me can be second to Shami

The best bowling line up for India can be

Shami

Aaron

Aniket/ Sran/ Suyal provided Sran becomes more potent

K Yadav

Ashwin

With reserves being Umesh, Ishant , Ankit Rajpoot

Only draw back with Aaron being sometimes he is not accurate enough but will learn as he plays more n grows from there

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

His thinking mostly seems right whenever he bowls, just lacks the execution at times which can only get better with practice and more matches under his belt. If he bowls a bouncer, he will bowl with effort unlike Umesh who at times seems to bowl short ball without much thinking and effort which sits up at waist height and gets smashed.

We need to give him chance to improve due to this reason.

 

Thinking bowlers with pace and bounce are not too common.

[Lannister]

Aaron is a better bet than both BB and Ishant. The later two are similar kind of bowlers who are economical but lack ability to take any kind of wickets. There can only be one place for them but playing both is just too defensive. Anyways, Meh. I am sick and tired of watching these trundlers bowl. 

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

aaron hardly plays ranji ,by this time he should have had at least 1 proper ranji season,,had it not been for the speedometer i dont know if he would have made it to the ind team.

He does not get to play because he is in the Indian team. He only played 2 ranji matches last season and took 7 wickets at an average of 11, best being 5/23. Played 3 matches in 2014/15 season and took 11 wickets at 26. Played 6 matches in 2013/14 season and took 20 wickets at 21. So he played 11 matches in 3 seasons combined taking 38 wickets at an average of 19. So, it shows whenever he has played ranji trophy in last 3 years he has done well. He is not able to play more matches because he has been with Indian team in last 2 years.

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He does not get to play because he is in the Indian team. He only played 2 ranji matches last season and took 7 wickets at an average of 11, best being 5/23. Played 3 matches in 2014/15 season and took 11 wickets at 26. Played 6 matches in 2013/14 season and took 20 wickets at 21. So he played 11 matches in 3 seasons combined taking 38 wickets at an average of 19. So, it shows whenever he has played ranji trophy in last 3 years he has done well. He is not able to play more matches because he has been with Indian team in last 2 years.

That is really impressive for a  bowler who has played so intermittently.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

but if it continues like this  he will never make it ,his execution of bowling wont improve nor the ability to play back to back matches and series,lot of times for ind he sits on the bench.

that is the problem of Indian cricket these days, not just with Aaron. We prepare rank turners at home, play 2 seamers, at times only 1, others only warm the benches and then expect they will become great bowlers and start winning us matches abroad.

[gattaca]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

that is the problem of Indian cricket these days, not just with Aaron. We prepare rank turners at home, play 2 seamers, at times only 1, others only warm the benches and then expect they will become great bowlers and start winning us matches abroad.

This is 90's all over again. The only bowler who used to play was srinath in India and abroad.