SPEED & PERFORMANCE OF FAST BOWLERS N TRUNDLERS IN 2017 IPL

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, MK55 said:

Well I have gone through a few such threads and have to say some of those can be quite comical. Fun to read.

Just found this Sandeep/Aaron comparison/trolling lame and hence the comment.

That was more due to the fact both Sandeep and Aaron were playing together and essentially bowling at the same time so easier to compare. See the Punjab vs B'lore match thread for more context/details.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Ultimate_Game

[vishalvirsingh]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

If he can roll over likes of Kohli and ABDV on flattish wkts in subcontinent, I'm sure he will manage just fine at intl level  

 

By the way did you watch him during the u-19 WC in Aus (was 2012 IIRC) and he was making the ball talk and was the best pacer in the tournament. Pak, Aus and SA had bigger and faster pacers but Sandeep consistently outperformed them. I don't recall anyone being able to hit him around no matter how hard they tried and he used to take top order wkts consistently. have been a fan since and he hasn't disappointed at any level so far.

Sandeep is good but still not the best 6 pacers of India 

Umesh 

Ishant 

Shammi 

Bumrah 

Bhuvi

Siraj

Rajpoot 

Sanghwan

 

Are serious pacers of new and old ball.

There are others too like thampi etc. But at least the above are better odi n test pacers than sandeep.

T20 performance is not important and not even a yard stick.

I m repeating myself kohli and ABD gifted their wickets to him as they were too confident. 

Overconfidence causes distraction ..they shot themselves on the foot.

Gayle was beaten.

While I am judging ..I m considering how could they perform in odi n tests.

 

[express bowling]

I dream of a ODI lineup of Sandeep Sharma and  Praveen Kumar as the specialist seamers and Rajat Bhatia as the seamer allrounder. 

 

Balwinder Singh Sandhu as the backup tundler.

 

Opposition 100 all out in swinging conditions which is rare these days and 425 for 2 otherwise.

Edited May 5, 2017 by express bowling

[vishalvirsingh]

Bhuvi of old was a deadly pacer for his first 5 overs in odi.

 

Earlier he consistently took 2 wickets in his first 6 overs..

Sometimes bowled 7 overs in first spell and second spell was just 1 or 2.

Not even completed 10 overs.

Sandeep is like old bhuvi.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I dream of a ODI lineup of Sandeep Sharma and  Praveen Kumar as the specialist seamers and Rajat Bhatia as the seamer allrounder. 

 

Balwinder Singh Sandhu as the backup tundler.

 

Opposition 100 all out in swinging conditions which is rare these days and 425 for 2 otherwise.

Wo swing frendly condition men bhi men opp agar 30/3 hoga after 10 overs , someone powerful in middle or lower order will come n take the game away n bowlers like sandeep economy in last 3 overs will be balanced to. 

 

These swing friendly pitch notion always reminds me of the 3rd test against pak in 2006, where our best swing bowler chota akram got a hatrick n we took 5 wkts till the ball was moving. We also had RP n zaheer who had better pace n PK n Sandeep

Once the ball got old......they got runs n in 2nd innings 1 wkt ko taras gaye

 

That still was a test match , In ODI these guys wud get hardly get a pitch like that once in 50 games. 

 

Moral of the story- Ball ka shine utar gaya tab kya achaar daaloge swing friendly condition. 

 

@Ultimate_Game - only swing with that avg pace doesnt work anymore for long in international cricket these days .......

[maniac]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I dream of a ODI lineup of Sandeep Sharma and  Praveen Kumar as the specialist seamers and Rajat Bhatia as the seamer allrounder. 

 

Balwinder Singh Sandhu as the backup tundler.

 

Opposition 100 all out in swinging conditions which is rare these days and 425 for 2 otherwise.

You forgot Allrounder Binny or is he too quick based on the above line up to make the cut???

[Ankit_sharma03]

35 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I dream of a ODI lineup of Sandeep Sharma and  Praveen Kumar as the specialist seamers and Rajat Bhatia as the seamer allrounder. 

 

Balwinder Singh Sandhu as the backup tundler.

 

Opposition 100 all out in swinging conditions which is rare these days and 425 for 2 otherwise.

 

15 minutes ago, maniac said:

You forgot Allrounder Binny or is he too quick based on the above line up to make the cut???

KAchra hi Dalna hia Binny ko chodho Rishi dhawan ko lao

Pk sandeep ko hatao- vinay,  krishna das, arvind, dhawal, anureet ko lao 

[express bowling]

41 minutes ago, maniac said:

You forgot Allrounder Binny or is he too quick based on the above line up to make the cut???

Yes...Bhatia is more suited to the above line-up.   

[Laaloo]

Bhatia

binny

PK

Munaf

 

Tony bhai's eyes got lit up

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Sandeep is good but still not the best 6 pacers of India 

Umesh 

Ishant 

Shammi 

Bumrah 

Bhuvi

Siraj

Rajpoot 

Sanghwan

 

Are serious pacers of new and old ball.

There are others too like thampi etc. But at least the above are better odi n test pacers than sandeep.

T20 performance is not important and not even a yard stick.

I m repeating myself kohli and ABD gifted their wickets to him as they were too confident. 

Overconfidence causes distraction ..they shot themselves on the foot.

Gayle was beaten.

While I am judging ..I m considering how could they perform in odi n tests.

 

I'm sorry but Ishant, Siraj, Rajpoot, Sangwan and Umesh are better short format bowlers than Sandeep on what basis? 

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

I'm sorry but Ishant, Siraj, Rajpoot, Sangwan and Umesh are better short format bowlers than Sandeep on what basis? 

Umesh for sure but Sandeep is a dibble dobbly bowler..even Bhatia has had match winning bowling figures in IPL before.

 

125 clicks will not cut it at international cricket

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Wo swing frendly condition men bhi men opp agar 30/3 hoga after 10 overs , someone powerful in middle or lower order will come n take the game away n bowlers like sandeep economy in last 3 overs will be balanced to. 

 

These swing friendly pitch notion always reminds me of the 3rd test against pak in 2006, where our best swing bowler chota akram got a hatrick n we took 5 wkts till the ball was moving. We also had RP n zaheer who had better pace n PK n Sandeep

Once the ball got old......they got runs n in 2nd innings 1 wkt ko taras gaye

 

That still was a test match , In ODI these guys wud get hardly get a pitch like that once in 50 games. 

 

Moral of the story- Ball ka shine utar gaya tab kya achaar daaloge swing friendly condition. 

 

@Ultimate_Game - only swing with that avg pace doesnt work anymore for long in international cricket these days .......

You need every type of bowler. Someone who keeps opposing batsmen in check in PP overs and take a wkt or two are invaluable. If Sandeep can perform a role similar to what Vaas used to perform for SL, likes of Bhuvi and Bumrah would do the rest. Pinning the opposing batsmen down is a pretty tough job and if Sandeep can do so, he should be added to the Indian squad.

[Ultimate_Game]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Umesh for sure but Sandeep is a dibble dobbly bowler..even Bhatia has had match winning bowling figures in IPL before.

 

125 clicks will not cut it at international cricket

Bhatia doesn't open the bowling nor does he bowl during the PP. Nor is Bhatia the most successful Indian pacer over the last 3 IPLs during PP overs.

[maniac]

Just now, Ultimate_Game said:

You need every type of bowler. Someone who keeps opposing batsmen in check in PP overs and take a wkt or two are invaluable. If Sandeep can perform a role similar to what Vaas used to perform for SL, likes of Bhuvi and Bumrah would do the rest. Pinning the opposing batsmen down is a pretty tough job and if Sandeep can do so, he should be added to the Indian squad.

You realize game has evolved since Vaas last played really right...likes of Ronnie Irani and Mark Ealham have won the odd games for England...Gavin Larsen used to be a gun bowler for the kiwis then...these days even 140k bowlers get spanked due to the bats and pitches...sorry Sandeep is a good journeyman in domestics and happy he gets a good paycheck in IPL just like I am happy for Bhatia,Unadkut or even Aravind but keep them away from the national side.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

You realize game has evolved since Vaas last played really right...likes of Ronnie Irani and Mark Ealham have won the odd games for England...Gavin Larsen used to be a gun bowler for the kiwis then...these days even 140k bowlers get spanked due to the bats and pitches...sorry Sandeep is a good journeyman in domestics and happy he gets a good paycheck in IPL just like I am happy for Bhatia,Unadkut or even Aravind but keep them away from the national side.

If you think Vaas was similar to Ronnie Irani or Ealham and that there's no difference between Sandeep and the likes of Bhatia, Unadkat and Aravind I doubt you have watched Sandeep bowl or understand much about bowling. Maybe for you bowling is all about speed. As we all saw today it isn't. You don't consistently top the averages in domestic cricket nor do you end up as the best Indian pacer over the last 3 IPLs during PP. None of Unadkat, Bhatia, Aravind or anyone else for that matter has come anywhere close to what Sandeep has done.

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

If you think Vaas was similar to Ronnie Irani or Ealham and that there's no difference between Sandeep and the likes of Bhatia, Unadkat and Aravind I doubt you have watched Sandeep bowl or understand much about bowling. Maybe for you bowling is all about speed. As we all saw today it isn't. You don't consistently top the averages in domestic cricket nor do you end up as the best Indian pacer over the last 3 IPLs during PP. None of Unadkat, Bhatia, Aravind or anyone else for that matter has come anywhere close to what Sandeep has done.

Well to be fair Bhatia etc are different league..he is an allrounder..Sandeep is definitely a notch above 

Sandeep is your old school swing bowler...sure there is a case for him in England in very English conditions but not a fit in international Odis  or T20s in any conditions...maybe tests in England as a back up he might be good.

 

looked toothless in international cricket from what I saw.

 

 

[maniac]

Bhuvi and Philander are the only 2 bowlers in the world today who can be some what considered medium fast and even they crank it up over 130k regularly and can hit speeds of 140 when in rhythm.

 

Pakistan and Srilanka have trundlers not by choice obviously...but even they want bowlers who crank it up to 140KAmir,Riaz,Prasad,Chameera

 

even Bangladesh now has bowlers who can hit 140ks...Fizz is a mystery bowler.

 

england,nzl,sa and Aus  have all 135k+ bowlers

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, maniac said:

Well to be fair Bhatia etc are different league..he is an allrounder..Sandeep is definitely a notch above 

Sandeep is your old school swing bowler...sure there is a case for him in England in very English conditions but not a fit in international Odis  or T20s in any conditions...maybe tests in England as a back up he might be good.

 

looked toothless in international cricket from what I saw.

 

 

He hasn't been given a fair shot to make a determination. One T20 for a 20 year old kid with a backup Indian team captained by Raina isn't something based on which you can make a judgement. Give him a couple of series (6-8 odis) to see what he can do. Surely Sandeep's consistent performances across all levels deserve as much  

 

He has delivered across multiple IPLs during PP on pattas. Surely he would've been found out if he was as shyte as the others you mentioned. It's not as if he hasn't faced decent batsmen in IPL. He must be doing something right for him to have consistently outperformed much faster and taller bowlers. I'm telling you this is Jadhav situation once again but this time on the bowling side.

[Ankit_sharma03]

14 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

You need every type of bowler. Someone who keeps opposing batsmen in check in PP overs and take a wkt or two are invaluable. If Sandeep can perform a role similar to what Vaas used to perform for SL, likes of Bhuvi and Bumrah would do the rest. Pinning the opposing batsmen down is a pretty tough job and if Sandeep can do so, he should be added to the Indian squad.

What use to be the avg score when vaas played as compare to now

Vaas was good at death , his speeds were also better then Sandeep

Look at the diff in pitches, ground sizes, bat sizes and evolution of batting from now to then. 

Vaas was SL best option, here we have 10-15 bowlers coming up bowling at good pace

 

Batsman these days will make a mockery of his bowling on flat decks. 

We already have bhuvi . Shami takes wkts in powerplay, umesh might leak runs but does take up wkts at start

 

Also again did u see shami record, m shocked how ru excluding ur most complete bowler. His fitness has been an issue but why wnt u play him if he is fit . 

 

Talking about vaas, well more then Sandeep we need a left armer. Sran has potential to cover all bases but need some work and then their are potentials like Sanghwan, kulwant for LOI. 

or We can try another bowler who has complete skill set like Nathu singh

or we Rajpoot is also a better option, as he has better height , bowls good line n length with pace andg gets extra bounce. 

 

He might do well in the beginning but once teams sought him out he doesnt have extra skills to cope with it. Then he ll be treated the same way once jayasuria treated our swing n so called highly intelligent bowler manoj prabhakar . Or even how bhuvi was taken to cleaners in 2015 by Sa for more then 100 runs.

 

Gone are the days where one dimension bowlers wud work LOI's. Game has evolved leaps n bounces.....and the answer lies in ur comparison that u didnt even find a current bowler for comparison 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, maniac said:

Well to be fair Bhatia etc are different league..he is an allrounder..Sandeep is definitely a notch above 

Sandeep is your old school swing bowler...sure there is a case for him in England in very English conditions but not a fit in international Odis  or T20s in any conditions...maybe tests in England as a back up he might be good.

 

looked toothless in international cricket from what I saw.

 

 

Even in England reverse swing comes in play in test cricket, he doesnt have pace to do that to. 

Not every day ull find overcast condition in Eng to, some days it becomes absolute flat then what will he do 

 

For past few yrs many bowlers have said duke balls arent of the same quality either .

 

He has no case in ENG to.

 

In ODI, eng have been producing absolute patta's