Ultimate_Game Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Pollack said: Dhoni has lost 4 IPL finals. 5 t20I world cup which includes one final. Speak of finals. Ganguly's contribution cannot be matched by dhoni. Dhoni as a player himself was ganguly's contribution to Indian team along with Yuvraj, Bhajji and others. Dhoni as a captain was Sachin's contribution to the team. Let's be honest if not for Sachin recommending Dhoni his leadership skills would have been wasted. Actually in hindsight I think it would have been better since Gambhir the better captain might have gotten a chance. I know that India won 60% of its ICC trophies in my siggy under Dhoni velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 A captain does play a huge role. If you didn't see a difference in Indian teams with Dhoni at the helm and Indian teams under others you haven't seen much I guess. I recall India bottling matches in finals or semis regularly. Under Dhoni things changed and India were one of the better teams who didn't beat themselves. We lost finals as a team and won as a team.Ganguly did not have Dhoni the finisher nor Gambhir who played crucial role in big matches.If u look at our major wins under Dhoni it's players like Raina ,Gambhir, Dhoni,Munaf,Sreenath,R.p Singh ,Jadeja who played key roles. maniac, speedheat and Pollack 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now, maniac said: But they had some big hitters like Aniruddha,Badrinath and Dhoni dont put them in the same sentence .. if badri clears the inner circle we should give him a 6 Pollack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollack Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, velu said: won 2 IPL + 2 CLT20 with a very weak bowling unit 2 IPL trophy getting to lead a strong team. We all know what happens when he gets to lead a weak team like Pune 4>2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollack Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, velu said: dont put them in the same sentence .. if badri clears the inner circle we should give him a 6 Badri was extremely talented.The only player who knew the art of getting out at the right time. Laaloo and velu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, velu said: dont put them in the same sentence .. if badri clears the inner circle we should give him a 6 Sarcasm detector???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, CG said: We lost finals as a team and won as a team.Ganguly did not have Dhoni the finisher nor Gambhir who played crucial role in big matches.If u look at our major wins under Dhoni it's players like Raina ,Gambhir, Dhoni,Munaf,Sreenath,R.p Singh ,Jadeja who played key roles. Yes you win as a team and lose as a team but the team does take its cues from the captain. India under Ganguly in a big match always gave me the impression of being nervous like a cat on hot tin roof. Whereas Indian team under Dhoni always gave the vibe of being under control and able to handle pressure. That is why I saw Ganguly's team capitulate to 54 in a final or losing 9 straight finals. Under Dhoni there wasn't a guarantee that the team would win but it was clear that the team wouldn't beat itself. The team always played to potential under Dhoni and in big games always showed up. I seldom saw that happen under Ganguly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Pollack said: Badri was extremely talented.The only player who knew the art of getting out at the right time. i created a thread for this years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said: Yes you win as a team and lose as a team but the team does take its cues from the captain. India under Ganguly in a big match always gave me the impression of being nervous like a cat on hot tin roof. Whereas Indian team under Dhoni always gave the vibe of being under control and able to handle pressure. That is why I saw Ganguly's team capitulate to 54 in a final or losing 9 straight finals. Under Dhoni there wasn't a guarantee that the team would win but it was clear that the team wouldn't beat itself. The team always played to potential under Dhoni and in big games always showed up. I seldom saw that happen under Ganguly. Because Dhoni never played teams like the Australia of late 90s 2000s...South Africa of mid 90s and WI of 70s and 80s. can you imagine Bowling attack he backs against 2003 Aussie line up ? New guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said: Yes you win as a team and lose as a team but the team does take its cues from the captain. India under Ganguly in a big match always gave me the impression of being nervous like a cat on hot tin roof. Whereas Indian team under Dhoni always gave the vibe of being under control and able to handle pressure. That is why I saw Ganguly's team capitulate to 54 in a final or losing 9 straight finals. Under Dhoni there wasn't a guarantee that the team would win but it was clear that the team wouldn't beat itself. The team always played to potential under Dhoni and in big games always showed up. I seldom saw that happen under Ganguly. That 2011 wc team in the sc could win with even Chawla or sreeshanth as the captain. infact his best captaincy was in 2015 wc till semis even though he was flop as a player....he backed the right bowling attack which everyone wanted him to bar Mohit who to his credit did well in the tournament. Rest all he was ordinary,had great teams or favorable conditions...was a good player once in a while I will give him that in Odis New guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now, maniac said: Because Dhoni never played teams like the Australia of late 90s 2000s...South Africa of mid 90s and WI of 70s and 80s. can you imagine Bowling attack he backs against 2003 Aussie line up ? Do you know the teams Ganguly lost to in the finals? We couldn't beat SL. We lost to WI. We were beaten by NZ. Not all the losses were against Aus. And you honestly didn't see the difference between India team under Dhoni and India team under Ganguly in a big match or a final? Under Ganguly the team always seemed to be on tenterhooks - as if an accident waiting to happen - and one pressure moment and it usually cracked. Under Dhoni I knew the team would give off its best and wouldn't buckle. If they lost so be it but not coz they imploded due to pressure. That was the biggest difference I saw and if you didn't so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veer Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Quote Wow.. Dhoni hate on this forum is unbelievable. 42 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said: People will come around when we go back to the good old days of waiting for decades to win a meaningful global trophy This is stupidity at another level also... you are a Dhoni fan - good and well.. but why would you be doing ' ' if India keeps on losing those meaningful trophy? hadd he yaar.. har koyi apne favorite player ka nagada baja raha he.. Dhoni was a great leader but now leadership has changed.. so why is it hard to respect the x-leader and still be happy about Kohli?? Criticize on objectivity and not on favoritism. Both have 'INDIA' writtern on their jersey.. so Lord, Mosher and Pollack 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now, Ultimate_Game said: Do you know the teams Ganguly lost to in the finals? We couldn't beat SL. We lost to WI. We were beaten by NZ. Not all the losses were against Aus. And you honestly didn't see the difference between India team under Dhoni and India team under Ganguly in a big match or a final? Under Ganguly the team always seemed to be on tenterhooks - as if an accident waiting to happen - and one pressure moment and it usually cracked. Under Dhoni I knew the team would give off its best and wouldn't buckle. If they lost so be it but not coz they imploded due to pressure. That was the biggest difference I saw and if you didn't so be it. Tell me this was giving an over to joginder sharma,a tactical move or was it because of no other alternatives? 2011 we could have won with anyone captaining...in fact we tied with England and lost to SA which shouldn't have happened either. we won the qf thanks to Raina and Yuvi....semis due to Pakistani choke job and Raina an sehwag cameos and Sachin cashing in his luck. so where is the great captaincy here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 @Ultimate_Game if you are saying Dhoni is a lucky mascot than nothing to argue there because those are not exactly what you can actually have a cricketing debate about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, maniac said: That 2011 wc team in the sc could win with even Chawla or sreeshanth as the captain. infact his best captaincy was in 2015 wc till semis even though he was flop as a player....he backed the right bowling attack which everyone wanted him to bar Mohit who to his credit did well in the tournament. Rest all he was ordinary,had great teams or favorable conditions...was a good player once in a while I will give him that in Odis Hindsight is 20-20 and I'm sure even Mishraji culd've captained us to the 2011 WC win Fact is before Dhoni started leading the team, we weren't that good in big games of ICC tourneys. We bucked under pressure and couldn't chase for shyte. The 2007 WC team was arguably filled with ATGs and we all saw what happened - they couldn't even get past the group stage! Revisionist history is all well and good but I prefer trophies we've won with Dhoni at the helm rather than believing statements such as "we could have won XYZ trophy under anyone". If we could, we would've multiple times in our history but we didn't. Taking that final step and getting over the hump is the hardest thing in sports and under Dhoni, India started doing so. Shunya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, maniac said: @Ultimate_Game if you are saying Dhoni is a lucky mascot than nothing to argue there because those are not exactly what you can actually have a cricketing debate about wat abt ishaantth unlucky sharma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now, Ultimate_Game said: Hindsight is 20-20 and I'm sure even Mishraji culd've captained us to the 2011 WC win Fact is before Dhoni started leading the team, we weren't that good in big games of ICC tourneys. We bucked under pressure and couldn't chase for shyte. The 2007 WC team was arguably filled with ATGs and we all saw what happened - they couldn't even get past the group stage! Revisionist history is all well and good but I prefer trophies we've won with Dhoni at the helm rather than believing statements such as "we could have won XYZ trophy under anyone". If we could, we would've multiple times in our history but we didn't. Taking that final step and getting over the hump is the hardest thing in sports and under Dhoni, India started doing so. You haven't told me how Dhoni motivated the team in big games like 2007wt20,2011 qf,semis or any other time either with brilliant tactical genius or an inspiring innings. aprt from that wc final innings tell me when? casual attitude is not always cool under pressure temperament....I think this stupidly of fans has led him to take things seriously which is why we lost a lot of games which we should have won by taking it to the last ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Just now, velu said: wat abt ishaantth unlucky sharma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said: Hindsight is 20-20 and I'm sure even Mishraji culd've captained us to the 2011 WC win Fact is before Dhoni started leading the team, we weren't that good in big games of ICC tourneys. We bucked under pressure and couldn't chase for shyte. The 2007 WC team was arguably filled with ATGs and we all saw what happened - they couldn't even get past the group stage! Revisionist history is all well and good but I prefer trophies we've won with Dhoni at the helm rather than believing statements such as "we could have won XYZ trophy under anyone". If we could, we would've multiple times in our history but we didn't. Taking that final step and getting over the hump is the hardest thing in sports and under Dhoni, India started doing so. We chased 16 or something games straight and won under Dravid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, veer said: This is stupidity at another level also... you are a Dhoni fan - good and well.. but why would you be doing ' ' if India keeps on losing those meaningful trophy? hadd he yaar.. har koyi apne favorite player ka nagada baja raha he.. Dhoni was a great leader but now leadership has changed.. so why is it hard to respect the x-leader and still be happy about Kohli?? Criticize on objectivity and not on favoritism. Both have 'INDIA' writtern on their jersey.. so Where did I say I'm not backing Kohli I would love for him to win every tourney that he leads India in along with away Test tours to Aus and SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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