kira Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, velu said: things will be normal when saudi & their oil brothers runs out of oil money .. 1970s 2010s Is that Afghanistan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asim Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Under_Score said: You seem like a very good person, regarding why 2 Billion Muslims in this world...It wouldn't matter if they all lived in Islamic Countries only. But people of your faith are also breeding like rabbits in non Muslim countries, this is indeed very shameful...it's like growing you religion while leeching hard working tax payers to pay for your kids who are mostly on welfare in the West...why should non Islamic countries pay for this? No quality in life....sad, who gives a damn about the numbers....in this modern era...no one fights with sticks or swords...Nuclear attacks can wipe out masses...so please get this typical mindset out of your brain that 'One day Muslims will be the dominating force in this world' just coz most of you pump out babies after babies every year!!...senseless mindset. so by just reading one stat I mentioned, u yourself assumed and concluded my whole of mindset? Labelled it is senseless :) and somehow fetched whole of future agenda from my mind and told how I should take that out of my brain... well, no comments :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 This thread is filled with anti-muslim bigotry and bullying. Stop spouting hatred and targeting religions in the name of 'truth'. Tomorrow, if some non-Indian picks up and translates some portions of the Gita or Puraan, which refer to castes and bash Hinduism for having institutionalized discrimination of certain people, the same frothing posters will come back and use common sense to point out that ancient texts will obviously reflect cultural norms of their time, and that nobody in today's India really cares about caste etc. This type of selective bashing actually takes away from legitimate criticism and allows it to be brushed off. I'm disappointed in some of the ICFers who have piled on in here. You may think that you are posting 'truths', but the only truth you are posting is your bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kira Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, sandeep said: This thread is filled with anti-muslim bigotry and bullying. Stop spouting hatred and targeting religions in the name of 'truth'. Tomorrow, if some non-Indian picks up and translates some portions of the Gita or Puraan, which refer to castes and bash Hinduism for having institutionalized discrimination of certain people, the same frothing posters will come back and use common sense to point out that ancient texts will obviously reflect cultural norms of their time, and that nobody in today's India really cares about caste etc. This type of selective bashing actually takes away from legitimate criticism and allows it to be brushed off. I'm disappointed in some of the ICFers who have piled on in here. You may think that you are posting 'truths', but the only truth you are posting is your bias. Except Hindus don't believe in one book or source, the comparison between hinduism and Islam is wrong in the first place because of how different the 2 religions are. Hinduism can be criticized for a lot of things and it has been criticized for a lot of things in the past, but the difference is that hinduism was able to adapt and reform over the time, also Hinduism is so freaking diverse, you can be an atheist and still be a hindu. Islam on the other hand is rigid, every muslim has to believe in the quran, Quran is the ultimate truth for muslims, it cannot be changed or reformed, also Islam is based on exclusivism whereas hinduism is inclusive. You can search for the most moderate liberal muslim in the world but even he won't got against things explicitly mentioned in the quran even if they go against moral ethical values, I have seen liberal Muslims justifying wife beating because it is mentioned in the quran, no need to be sjw here, you can go ahead and bash hinduism, no one is stopping you but islam should be bashed and rightfully so for the wrong things contained in it rageaddict, MechEng and sarcastic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) ^ In todays India, they do care about what was wrong hence you see something called "Quota" or "reservation". In India and "Hindus", its Parliament that takes precedence over Hindu religious scriptures and hence you see people flock if a parliamentarian says something controversial. Same is true in Christian western world. You dont see Hindus arguing,protesting that i must have multiple wife because Lord Krishna had them. In crux, religious leaders and scripture arent cared by people or public after a certain extent. So as some call, worship monkey or elephant or river, but its limited t worship and can be justified by faith. But Practices arent and cant be justified. Exactly opposite is true in Islamic world where mosque/religious scriptures are ultimate place of power and other institutions are their to protect the mosque. Thats why you see Muslim men and their representative fighting tooth and nail for right to do multiple marriage and divorce them cheaply Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asim Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Btw every pseudo intellectual here giving lectures about things they cannot even practically see in Muslims today should try opening the eyes and see the horrible inhuman caste-system of india which v much exists today; right now and try speaking couple of words for hundreds of millions of "untouchables" around you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narenpande1 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, sandeep said: This thread is filled with anti-muslim bigotry and bullying. Stop spouting hatred and targeting religions in the name of 'truth'. Tomorrow, if some non-Indian picks up and translates some portions of the Gita or Puraan, which refer to castes and bash Hinduism for having institutionalized discrimination of certain people, the same frothing posters will come back and use common sense to point out that ancient texts will obviously reflect cultural norms of their time, and that nobody in today's India really cares about caste etc. This type of selective bashing actually takes away from legitimate criticism and allows it to be brushed off. I'm disappointed in some of the ICFers who have piled on in here. You may think that you are posting 'truths', but the only truth you are posting is your bias. Hinduism with its many variants - Vaishnavism, shaivism, Jainism .. etc is still entirely built around dharma and a way of life. No where does it teach hatred of " non-believers" or uses words that have filthy meanings like " Kaffir" etc.. like Islam. Muslim are most intolerant - even among themselves they kill each other like barbarians for differences in Shia, Sunni, Ahmedi.. etc Have you ever heard of a Vaishnav killing a Jain because of differences in beliefs ? There are millions of Hindus in the entire Middle East - have you seen any single proper temple there despite that ? But these same hypocrite Muslims claim thag liberal tolerant countries like India, US and UK are " oppressing them " despite the fact that there are thousands of Mosques in India, US and Europe. This is their bloody hypocrisy. You give these people shelter in your liberal country, they start breeding like cockroaches and building ghettos around it , don't assimilate with local customs and then demand a land of their own in the land that you gave them shelter. It is like you show them a helping finger and they try to chop off a part of your hand. They are a cancerous intolerant hypocrite society who will never have answers when placed with facts in front of them or when exposed for their hypocricy. Under_Score, rageaddict and Ranvir 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Asim said: Btw every pseudo intellectual here giving lectures about things they cannot even practically see in Muslims today should try opening the eyes and see the horrible inhuman caste-system of india which v much exists today; right now and try speaking couple of words for hundreds of millions of "untouchables" around you... Really, So why Saeeds Sheikkh Pathans, hazzam,queraishi against Muslim names? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, kira said: Except Hindus don't believe in one book or source, the comparison between hinduism and Islam is wrong in the first place because of how different the 2 religions are. Hinduism can be criticized for a lot of things and it has been criticized for a lot of things in the past, but the difference is that hinduism was able to adapt and reform over the time, also Hinduism is so freaking diverse, you can be an atheist and still be a hindu. Islam on the other hand is rigid, every muslim has to believe in the quran, Quran is the ultimate truth for muslims, it cannot be changed or reformed, also Islam is based on exclusivism whereas hinduism is inclusive. You can search for the most moderate liberal muslim in the world but even he won't got against things explicitly mentioned in the quran even if they go against moral ethical values, I have seen liberal Muslims justifying wife beating because it is mentioned in the quran, no need to be sjw here, you can go ahead and bash hinduism, no one is stopping you but islam should be bashed and rightfully so for the wrong things contained in it That's simply not true. you are massively generalizing about people of a certain faith, because it fits your confirmation bias. Again, I don't have a problem with criticism per se, and its not even my religion, but what I see on this thread is not criticism. Its agenda-driven bashing. Cherry-picking quotes from a 1500 year old text, which actually was quite forward looking for its times, in terms of recommending rights and treatment of women and slaves, is quite unfair. By all means, criticize the morons who try to apply those recommendations literally, but don't bash the religion. ALL religions have their set of issues, and there's merit to the argument that Islam needs a 'reformation' type movement, but I expect better than just naked bashing from my fellow Indians. We ought to know better. Edited May 23, 2017 by sandeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 38 minutes ago, sandeep said: This thread is filled with anti-muslim bigotry and bullying. Stop spouting hatred and targeting religions in the name of 'truth'. Tomorrow, if some non-Indian picks up and translates some portions of the Gita or Puraan, which refer to castes and bash Hinduism for having institutionalized discrimination of certain people, the same frothing posters will come back and use common sense to point out that ancient texts will obviously reflect cultural norms of their time, and that nobody in today's India really cares about caste etc. This type of selective bashing actually takes away from legitimate criticism and allows it to be brushed off. I'm disappointed in some of the ICFers who have piled on in here. You may think that you are posting 'truths', but the only truth you are posting is your bias. And all you are displaying is your ignorance. I mean why try to monkey balance, when you neither know about Dharma nor Islam? Under_Score and Tibarn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, narenpande1 said: There are millions of Hindus in the entire Middle East - have you seen any single proper temple there despite that ? But these same hypocrite Muslims claim thag liberal tolerant countries like India, US and UK are " oppressing them " despite the fact that there are thousands of Mosques in India, US and Europe. This is their bloody hypocrisy. But its not the Indian muslim who disallows building temples in the middle east. Nor does the muslim that claims 'oppression' in India, have first hand knowledge of the actual conditions. So why bash all muslims? Tomorrow, if some Indian dude commits a horrific crime in the west, will you be OK be the citizens of that country spouting nonsense about "these Indians"? Can't you realize how making blanket statements about a whole bunch of people is just ignorant and inaccurate? For all your chest-beating about Hinduism and Dharma, man up and conduct yourself as if you are aspiring to live up that dharma - treat others like you want to be treated. Don't resort to bullying and spouting bigotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, surajmal said: And all you are displaying is your ignorance. I mean why try to monkey balance, when you neither know about Dharma nor Islam? Yeah, shoot the messenger when you don't like the message. Eff off you moron, you don't have the foggiest clue about my religion and what I know about it. @sshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, sandeep said: Yeah, shoot the messenger when you don't like the message. Eff off you moron, you don't have the foggiest clue about my religion and what I know about it. @sshole. Your religion is moralising chutiyapa. Shoot the messenger? that would with the case if there was a message. If you are going to expose yourself so blatantly on the internet, then prepare for the **** coming your way. Otherwise, stick a dynamite up your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kira Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, sandeep said: That's simply not true. you are massively generalizing about people of a certain faith, because it fits your confirmation bias. Ask the muslims you know whether wife beating is mentioned in the quran, the liberal muslims may not practice these things but they can't come out and criticize these teachings either because it is explicitly mentioned in the quran. It is not a confirmation bias, you are just ignorant about Islam. Quote Again, I don't have a problem with criticism per se, and its not even my religion, but what I see on this thread is not criticism. Its agenda-driven bashing. Cherry-picking quotes from a 1500 year old text, which actually was quite forward looking for its times, in terms of recommending rights and treatment of women and slaves, is quite unfair. By all means, criticize the morons who try to apply those recommendations literally, but don't bash the religion. ALL religions have their set of issues, and there's merit to the argument that Islam needs a 'reformation' type movement, but I expect better than just naked bashing from my fellow Indians. We ought to know better. Islam is very different from your typical religion. You don't understand how rigid this religion is, ahmedis is a sect of Islam but the muslims refuse to acknowledge them as muslims because they went against their basic teaching of muhammad being the last prophet. There is no flexibility here, you have been on the green ghetto too, haven't you seen the type of threads in the time pass section. Of course sufi sect of islam is something I can respect but one could argue that sufi is more liberal because it was born after fusion with Indian culture. The Wahabi form of islam is the most vile and destructive ideology present in the world today. We are criticizing Quran the book, this is not some bigoted blind hatred towards muslims, Quran is the most relevant, most important book in Islam but Puranas in hinduism don't hold similar level of importance, so your example was flawed in the first place. Edited May 23, 2017 by kira rageaddict, MechEng, Under_Score and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narenpande1 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, sandeep said: But its not the Indian muslim who disallows building temples in the middle east. Nor does the muslim that claims 'oppression' in India, have first hand knowledge of the actual conditions. So why bash all muslims? Tomorrow, if some Indian dude commits a horrific crime in the west, will you be OK be the citizens of that country spouting nonsense about "these Indians"? Can't you realize how making blanket statements about a whole bunch of people is just ignorant and inaccurate? For all your chest-beating about Hinduism and Dharma, man up and conduct yourself as if you are aspiring to live up that dharma - treat others like you want to be treated. Don't resort to bullying and spouting bigotry. Indian Muslims have no option but to allow other religions like Hinduism to spread in India because they are a freaking minority in India. How do Muslims treat non-Muslims in overwhelming Muslim majority countries like in the gulf ? Have you seen temples proliferate in any Muslim majority country, even so with millions of Hindus ?? Edited May 23, 2017 by narenpande1 rageaddict 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, narenpande1 said: Indian Muslims have no option but to allow other religions like Hinduism to spread in India because they are a freaking minority in India. How do Muslims treat non-Muslims in overwhelming Muslim majority countries like in the gulf ? Have you seen temples proliferate in any Muslim majority country, even so with millions of Hindus ?? Kashmir is filled with Indian Muslim. Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kira Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 @sandeep Also did you notice how Asim has been running and dodging these criticisms of quran, he could have simply said that this is wrong but he chose to point fingers at hindus, cried about context and what not, he can't simple go against something explicitly mentioned in quran, can he? sarcastic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 56 minutes ago, Asim said: Btw every pseudo intellectual here giving lectures about things they cannot even practically see in Muslims today should try opening the eyes and see the horrible inhuman caste-system of india which v much exists today; right now and try speaking couple of words for hundreds of millions of "untouchables" around you... The Muslims of South Asia still practice the caste system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 25 minutes ago, narenpande1 said: Indian Muslims have no option but to allow other religions like Hinduism to spread in India because they are a freaking minority in India. How do Muslims treat non-Muslims in overwhelming Muslim majority countries like in the gulf ? Have you seen temples proliferate in any Muslim majority country, even so with millions of Hindus ?? Muslims aren't the only ones with majoritarianism issues. And 2 wrongs do not make a right. 31 minutes ago, kira said: Ask the muslims you know whether wife beating is mentioned in the quran, the liberal muslims may not practice these things but they can't come out and criticize these teachings either because it is explicitly mentioned in the quran. It is not a confirmation bias, you are just ignorant about Islam. Islam is very different from your typical religion. You don't understand how rigid this religion is, ahmedis is a sect of Islam but the muslims refuse to acknowledge them as muslims because they went against their basic teaching of muhammad being the last prophet. There is no flexibility here, you have been on the green ghetto too, haven't you seen the type of threads in the time pass section. Of course sufi sect of islam is something I can respect but one could argue that sufi is more liberal because it was born after fusion with Indian culture. The Wahabi form of islam is the most vile and destructive ideology present in the world today. We are criticizing Quran the book, this is not some bigoted blind hatred towards muslims, Quran is the most relevant, most important book in Islam but Puranas in hinduism don't hold similar level of importance, so your example was flawed in the first place. I'm not going to claim to be super knowledgeable about Islam, but I do know quite a bit. I have studied it in college, and I have grown up around muslims. And any faith is only as "rigid" and inflexible as the practitioner's adoption. Go look at some of the 'orthodox' brahmins and what they will claim is mandated by their faith may just shock you. I'm not trying to indicate any false equivalency, and by all means, there are issues with mainstream practices and beliefs in Islam that justify criticism. But I'm not going to stay quiet while the vocal minority on this forum with a known agenda, vomit out nonsense in the name of criticism. Ahmediyas are like the mormons of Islam, and I agree that the discrimination against them is bad and unacceptable, but I think its not up to outsiders to decide whether they are to be considered a part of Islam or not. Tomorrow if mormons proclaim that they are part of the catholic church, I don't think they will be accepted as such by the vatican either. And if you are so eager to "criticize" the Quran, since you recognize its relevancy and primacy within Islam, are you also willing to accept that when the quran and its rules were institutionalized, it bestowed more rights on women than any other religion in that time, including Hinduism? If you understand its importance, then why can't you respect the sentiments of that faith's followers, and criticize the practice, and not the symbol of the faith? Is that too much to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 49 minutes ago, sandeep said: But its not the Indian muslim who disallows building temples in the middle east. Nor does the muslim that claims 'oppression' in India, have first hand knowledge of the actual conditions. So why bash all muslims? Tomorrow, if some Indian dude commits a horrific crime in the west, will you be OK be the citizens of that country spouting nonsense about "these Indians"? Can't you realize how making blanket statements about a whole bunch of people is just ignorant and inaccurate? For all your chest-beating about Hinduism and Dharma, man up and conduct yourself as if you are aspiring to live up that dharma - treat others like you want to be treated. Don't resort to bullying and spouting bigotry. When will you realise that Indian Muslims are just like any other South Asian Muslim group? They are no different than Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Maldivians. The ONLY difference is that they are in a minority and that is why you will hear Hindu-Muslim bhai bhai, secular law crap from them. You want to see what Indian Muslims are like when they are in the majority? Have a look at Kashmir and parts of West Bengal. Wake up before it's too late. rageaddict and Under_Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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