Tactics and Strategy for Semi Final?

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Pollack said:

Why do people forget Pandya is a fifth bowler and batting allrounder? Rant of being expensive doesn't make any sense. He has been bowling decent for a fifth bowler. His lower order batting is required as I don't trust Dhoni and Yuvi like before even if they play good.

If Pandya's batting is needed for India to win then India will lose that match. All Pandya at best can contribute is few quick runs.So his bowling is needed more than his batting.

[zen]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If Pandya's batting is needed for India to win then India will lose that match. All Pandya at best can contribute is few quick runs.So his bowling is needed more than his batting.

If you are banking on #6 to win you a game by playing a long inning, it is almost a herculian task that not many will pull off on regular basis

 

Pandya is good enough to get a 50 or so, and contributes in other departments too

Edited June 12, 2017 by zen

[NareshK]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

Good points but on good batting wkts, the opportunity for the extra batsman to do a lot usualky are limited. Which is why it is not a bad idea to actually strengthen the bowling 

 

Going for wkts is the best way to restrict any team 

Not necessarily true. When chasing a big total, you need depth in batting lineup. It allows top order batsmen to play without some pressure as well. 

 

Going for wickets is important but on a flat wicket, you usually pick wickets by building pressure and not through bowling wicket taking deliveries because the conditions dont assist you. So having another "wicket taking" bowler will not necessarily mean he will pick more wickets. He will usually only restrict runs and 1 or 2 bowlers will end up being underbowled and he will not be useful when its his turn to bat.

 

That's why 5 bowlers are enough and if some of them can bat, its great. Rest should be batsmen and if they can bowl, its a plus.

[zen]

6 minutes ago, NareshK said:

Not necessarily true. When chasing a big total, you need depth in batting lineup. It allows top order batsmen to play without some pressure as well. 

 

Going for wickets is important but on a flat wicket, you usually pick wickets by building pressure and not through bowling wicket taking deliveries because the conditions dont assist you. So having another "wicket taking" bowler will not necessarily mean he will pick more wickets. He will usually only restrict runs and 1 or 2 bowlers will end up being underbowled and he will not be useful when its his turn to bat.

 

That's why 5 bowlers are enough and if some of them can bat, its great. Rest should be batsmen and if they can bowl, its a plus.

Ind does not play attacking cricket up front relatively speaking. By playing attacking cricket, if Ind was getting in to 150/4 kind of situation on regular basis, I would agree with playing the extra batsman as he would have more opportunities to contribute 

 

And if this was 2000s / early 2010s, I would probably have made the points that you made as that was the main thinking in that era. We have to be ahead of the curve now

Edited June 12, 2017 by zen

[sandeep]

Shami in place of Ash/Jaddu.   Don't sleepwalk.  Go on to final.  

[NareshK]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

Ind does not play attacking cricket up front relatively speaking. By playing attacking cricket, if Ind was getting in to 150/4 kind of situation on regular basic, I would agree with playing the extra batsman as he would have more opportunities to contribute 

 

And if this was 2000s, I would probably have made the points you as that was the main thinking in that era. We have to be ahead of the curve now

We need more batting depth more so nowadays because if we drop one more batsman, we are just going to be even more conservative. If wickets fall, there is nobody to bat lower down the order.

 

The reason why Australia or England go for runs throughout their innings(which can backfire sometimes as well) is because they have someone who can bat till 10 which is not the same with India who have Bhuvi, Ashwin, Bumrah at 9,10 and 11 who are not good at batting in ODIs. Even Jadeja is a hit or miss in ODIs. Its the lack of confidence in lower order which leads to conservative approach in middle overs. If you drop one more batsman and have a proper bowler, you are going to have an even bigger tail.

Edited June 12, 2017 by NareshK

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

If you are banking on #6 to win you a game by playing a long inning, it is almost a herculian task that not many will pull off on regular basis

 

Pandya is good enough to get a 50 or so

That's why his bowling as a fifth bowler plays more vital role.He is sixth bowler at this point that's why  Indian team balance is off when he plays and is unable to complete his ten overs.

[zen]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

That's why his bowling as a fifth bowler plays more vital role.He is sixth bowler at this point that's why  Indian team balance is off when he plays and is unable to complete his ten overs.

He is good enough to be 5th bowler, and with time will only improve

[zen]

13 minutes ago, NareshK said:

We need more batting depth more so nowadays because if we drop one more batsman, we are just going to be even more conservative. If wickets fall, there is nobody to bat lower down the order.

 

The reason why Australia or England go for runs throughout their innings(which can backfire sometimes as well) is because they have someone who can bat till 10 which is not the same with India who have Bhuvi, Ashwin, Bumrah at 9,10 and 11 who are not good at batting in ODIs. Even Jadeja is a hit or miss in ODIs. Its the lack of confidence in lower order which leads to conservative approach in middle overs. If you drop one more batsman and have a proper bowler, you are going to have an even bigger tail.

If wkts do fall early on a good batting pitch, Ind would more often than not be in a position to get a par or below par total. Which means the game would need to be won through bowling 

 

We are conservative enough anyways now. If we start taking more risks early on, may be the extra batsman will have more to do. In this competition, Ind has only lost 11 wkts in 3 games 

 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

He is good enough to be 5th bowler, and with time will only improve

No he is not good enough to be fifth bowler right now and yes he may improve for sure.He is an asset on the field that's why it is not an easy call.

 

Big plus for him Yadav is inconsistent and Shami is under cooked so he will play.If Shami was full tilt it would have been an easy call.

[SRT100]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

He is good enough to be 5th bowler, and with time will only improve

But the time to improve is not a semi final.

 

Shami should be playing in the semi ahead of Pandya.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Pandya could have been dropped as i think against Bangladesh bowling shud be stocked up more but Pandya has really smashed mustafizur well . 

Jadhav i feel will do well against bangladesh bowling specially their spinners

 

One spinner can be dropped as they play spin well but then wud jaddu batting be tested against their bowling???

 

I would like to get shami back .....incase we ll go to finals he wud be needed 

 

My biggest worry is yuvraj singh against Bangladesh's off spinner specially if the pitch is slow

[zen]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No he is not good enough to be fifth bowler right now and yes he may improve for sure.He is an asset on the field that's why it is not an easy call.

 

Big plus for him Yadav is inconsistent and Shami is under cooked so he will play.If Shami was full tilt it would have been an easy call.

He is good enough to be 5th bowler. He has picked up wkts as well. Based on the current situation and form, it is hard to see a bowler replacing the all rounder Pandya 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

But the time to improve is not a semi final.

 

Shami should be playing in the semi ahead of Pandya.

Pandya is undroppable at the moment as his contributions are guaranteed in at least one or two department(s), if not all 3

 

He is already good enough to be playing as someone who can contribute to the team's cause one way or the other

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

He is good enough to be 5th bowler. He has picked up wkts as well. Based on the current situation and form, it is hard to see a bowler replacing the all rounder Pandya 

He was leaking runs yesterday too but due to those runs outs he was able to complete his overs.

India has lost very few wickets in all three matches so their batting is not their problem and I certainly do not see it being a problem against Bangladesh.Fifth bowler plays a very vital role especially in team like India who do not have any great strike bowler.

[SRT100]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

Pandya is undroppable at the moment as his contributions are guaranteed in at least one or two department(s), if not all 3

 

He is already good enough to be playing as someone who can contribute to the team's cause one way or the other

I think you are struggling to understand the game of cricket.

 

India would be better served playing 5 world class bowlers. Ashwin and Jaddu are also more than capable of putting a combined effort of a batsmen if required.

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

If Pandya's batting is needed for India to win then India will lose that match. All Pandya at best can contribute is few quick runs.So his bowling is needed more than his batting.

Why do you have such low regard for his batting?  He already won us an ODI by 'finishing' a chase against NZ.  And came close to winning another one.  He's more than just a 'hitter'.  

[Yoda-esque]

Shami needs a game surely.

[Yoda-esque]

While I rate Bumrah highly for his control, I feel we need wickets upfront that BK or Shami can provide.

Shami can both seam and swing the ball at lively pace.No idea why he is not playing..

[putrevus]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Why do you have such low regard for his batting?  He already won us an ODI by 'finishing' a chase against NZ.  And came close to winning another one.  He's more than just a 'hitter'.  

He did not finish chase against NZ, he  did against England. Dhoni when he was finisher was capable of walking in 4 wickets down and play full 50 overs and score a hundred. Pandya bats no 7 so unless he is bowling his full 10 overs  upsets the balance of the team.

 

I don't have anything against him.I hope he does become very good allrounder. Yuvi was fifth bowler in 2011 but he was capable of winning match on his own with his bat .Pandya upsets the balance the moment he fails to complete his 10 overs as he is sixth bowler playing role of fifth bowler.

Edited June 12, 2017 by putrevus