StriKe Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, G_B_ said: really? MGR is on record of saying he could work in the Tamil film industry cause of his Malyalee roots. Ie the languages are so similar. Secondly in the context of India were million died during partition it really is not that bloody at all. Tamils can understand Malayalam language vice versa with little difficult but never written nor reading. Telugu and Kannada cannot be understand by listening/reading/writing unless you learn from scratch. All 4 language have completely different scripts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: They should learn Tamil when they come to visit Tamil Nadu. Will the govt fund all the boarding costs for hotels and shops for the expenses then? I work in Kerala and I don't expect boards everywhere to have English or Hindi.Tgey aren't either. If ones go to a state they should adapt .Otherwise the fault is with them.Its the same for Tamilian going to Rajasthan or Bengali coming from to Kerala Heck do you ever been to MP? There isn't a single board you can find in English .Everywhere it will be in Hindi.Do you find any south Indian moaning or complaining about it ? No they don't. When people go somewhere they adopt .That's the nature.If not then the fault is with them. I don't expect a Tamil to know / learn Gujarati if he visits Guj. I would be happy to converse with him/her in Eng or Hindi Why Hindi over other Ind languages? Because it is widely spoken by a majority in Ind and is one of the two official union govt languages The issue here is rating Tamil on par with Hindi w/o it being widely spoken/understood in Ind as Hindi is. Whether we like it or not, Hindi is first among equals Edited June 24, 2017 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriKe Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, zen said: Ppl have to learn Hindi because it is widely spoken by the majority in Ind Much like Chinese, Arabs would learn Eng, because it is widely spoken by those visiting their countries If I m transfered to lead a biz unit in Middle East, I would not be expected to learn Arabic The issue here is that you are rating Tamil on par with Hindi, which is more widely spoken Ind and is also one of the two union govt languages. Whether we like it or not, Hindi is first among equals How is 53% is majority? It's only half of the population. I'm not rating Tamil on par with Hindi, I don't want Tamil to be learned outside TN.Just don't force Hindi into TN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 95%+ indians speak and understand basic Hindi. Basic hindi - not in any depth. Only a hater from TN opposes Hindi being spoken in his state. Rest of the states have embraced it w/o problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriKe Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Tibarn said: The same census from Wiki you used, from 2001 shows this Right column, top cell. Hindi is spoken by 53.6 percent of Indians, a majority. I never said that Hindi is the primary or secondary language in all states, only that a majority of Indians speak it, which is true: 53.6% is a majority. Except, for those living within India, migration tends to be to states where Hindi is spoken as a primary or secondary language. Check the table I posted. Karnataka and Andhra in total get 6.6% migrants from other states. TN and Kerala get less than 2% each migrants from other states. The numbers don't lie, the economic argument shows Hindi as more important than English within India. If you are talking about international clients, then maybe English gives a benefit. One doesn't have to invest in a translator to deal with clients. Also, if the goal of the Indian education system is that people migrate to other countries to work, then English could be a benefit. The bolded is nonsense. If English were necessary to get ahead in the world, then India would be ahead of China, Japan, South Korea, etc. Countries teach in their mother tongues, it's why I don't support Hindi as the national language. Please show some evidence that English has ensured that India doesn't get left behind in the world. How is 53% is majority? It's only half of the population. If you are talking about international clients, then maybe English gives a benefit. One doesn't have to invest in a translator to deal with clients. Also, if the goal of the Indian education system is that people migrate to other countries to work, then English could be a benefit. Agree with you. The bolded is nonsense. If English were necessary to get ahead in the world, then India would be ahead of China, Japan, South Korea, etc. Countries teach in their mother tongues, it's why I don't support Hindi as the national language. Language is not the only factor that could make us go ahead of other countries.. Same way states teach their own mother tongues, Even i don't support Hindi as national language and we aren't talking about that. Census is from 2001, Hope govt release 2011 census. Edited June 24, 2017 by StriKe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriKe Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, randomGuy said: 95%+ indians speak and understand basic Hindi. Basic hindi - not in any depth. Only a hater from TN opposes Hindi being spoken in his state. Rest of the states have embraced it w/o problem. 95%+ indians speak and understand basic Hindi. No. Rest of the states have embraced it w/o problem. No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, StriKe said: How is 53% is majority? It's only half of the population. I'm not rating Tamil on par with Hindi, I don't want Tamil to be learned outside TN.Just don't force Hindi into TN. As a second or third language, Hindi would have a far greater reach, my friend Not forcing it on Tamils, but since TN belongs to Ind, it should have provisions for ppl from rest of Ind to communicate without hassles with the region and ppl from TN (those who want to) to interact with rest of country effectively too Just like we use Eng to communicate internationally, we can use Hindi to communicate internally, along with Eng. Ppl should not be forced to learn Eng, a lang not native to Ind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriKe Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, zen said: I don't expect a Tamil to know / learn Gujarati if he visits Guj. I would be happy to converse with him/her in Eng or Hindi Why Hindi over other Ind languages? Because it is widely spoken by a majority in Ind and is one of the two official union govt languages The issue here is rating Tamil on par with Hindi w/o it being widely spoken/understood in Ind as Hindi is. Whether we like it or not, Hindi is first among equals If he visiting for a week then it's fine but if he planning to stay in Gujarat for months, take a extra steps and learn Gujarati or Punjabi to speak with locals. Learning few words and sentence is not going to hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, StriKe said: How is 53% is majority? It's only half of the population. If you are talking about international clients, then maybe English gives a benefit. One doesn't have to invest in a translator to deal with clients. Also, if the goal of the Indian education system is that people migrate to other countries to work, then English could be a benefit. Agree with you. The bolded is nonsense. If English were necessary to get ahead in the world, then India would be ahead of China, Japan, South Korea, etc. Countries teach in their mother tongues, it's why I don't support Hindi as the national language. Language is not the only factor that could make us go ahead of other countries.. Same way states teach their own mother tongues, Even i don't support Hindi as national language and we aren't talking about that. Census is from 2001, Hope govt release 2011 census. Only reason Hindi > English is because Hindi has 400 million native speakers in India and English has practically zero. But as prevalence of 2nd and 3rd language shows, English is a close second-most popular non-mothertongue language in India. Hence it should remain as one of two unofficial languages of centre and if we do need a national language, English has better legitimacy. Other languages are under enough pressure to survive from Hindi as it is, due to intermarriage. We don't need to 'China-fy' ourselves and further accelerate the decline of regional languages by promoting Hindi. Edited June 24, 2017 by Muloghonto StriKe and Mariyam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibarn Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, StriKe said: How is 53% is majority? It's only half of the population. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority Quote 1 obsolete : the quality or state of being greater 2a : the age at which full civil rights are accorded The age of majority in the U.S. is 18.b : the status of one who has attained this agegraduated … before he had attained his majority — W. L. Burrage 3a : a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total a majority of voters a two-thirds majorityb : the excess of a majority over the remainder of the total : margin won by a majority of 10 votesc : the greater quantity or share the majority of the time A majority, by definition, is 50% + 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) @Muloghonto I am guessing you are a Bengali person who spent his formative years in Bengal. Could you please translate the following sentences into Hindi: My house is right after the School. I am carrying my lunch in my bag. PS: just testing a hypothesis. Edited June 24, 2017 by Mariyam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriKe Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Just now, Tibarn said: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority A majority, by definition, is 50% + 1. I know the definition , There is 47% of population who doesn't know Hindi, Why force them to learn Hindi ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, StriKe said: If he visiting for a week then it's fine but if he planning to stay in Gujarat for months, take a extra steps and learn Gujarati or Punjabi to speak with locals. Learning few words and sentence is not going to hurt. That would be nice but not required as ppl in Guj would be able to communicate in either Eng or Hindi at some level if not both And that is the benefit that a Tamil would have as he could get by all Ind by knowing Tamil, Hindi and Eng without having to learn a dozen different languages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Mariyam said: @Muloghonto I am guessing you are a Bengali person who spent his formative years in Bengal. Could you please translate the following sentences into Hindi: My house is right after the School. I am carrying my lunch in my bag. PS: just testing a hypothesis. "Mera ghar vidyalay ke par/bad hai. " "Mere dopaher ka khaana mere thaliya me hai" <My Hindi is rusty. I am an a-typical Bong, because i took Hindi as 2nd language in school, not Bengali. So i used to be able to speak shudh Hindi but i have 30 years of rust> Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rageaddict Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, StriKe said: If he visiting for a week then it's fine but if he planning to stay in Gujarat for months, take a extra steps and learn Gujarati or Punjabi to speak with locals. Learning few words and sentence is not going to hurt. That's the great thing about Hindi. I don't need to learn Gujarati and Punjabi if I visit those states as the locals can communicate in Hindi. Saves me from the hassles of miscommunication and using English to communicate with fellow Indians. Nobody is going to learn your Tamil if you are thinking about promoting the language that way. Even your PM addresses the Nation more in Hindi than any other language. What can you do? Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibarn Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, StriKe said: I know the definition , There is 47% of population who doesn't know Hindi, Why force them to learn Hindi ? The thing is, this has been a project of the centre since independence. Gandhi, Nehru, and other Congress head honchos were big on imposing "Hindustani" and "Urdu" on the rest of the country, see below: ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tibarn said: The thing is, this has been a project of the centre since independence. Gandhi, Nehru, and other Congress head honchos were big on imposing "Hindustani" and "Urdu" on the rest of the country, see below: ... All the more reason to promote English as true language of inter-region in India. It doesn't have the coercive/conversion baggage of hindi or other languages, like Urdu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NareshK Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Muloghonto said: All the more reason to promote English as true language of inter-region in India. It doesn't have the coercive/conversion baggage of hindi or other languages, like Urdu. Whether anyone likes it or not, English will become the most spoken language among educated people in India in the near future. Popularity of English increased with English medium schools and its also the language widely used in offices. Learning Hindi is not necessary for day to day life in non Hindi states even though many non Hindi people do learn Hindi than vice versa. In future, most people will speak in their native language with family and with others who know the same language and use English with others. This way you continue to preserve your language and dont impose your language on others. I think its fair game in a multi lingual, multi cultural country like India. We need to respect the diversity of our country and accept that the population is not one homogeneous group. That's what has worked in India to remain united all these years. If you happen to move to a state where they dont speak your language or if they cant speak English, you just have to learn a few loan words to get by. Lots of Hindi people have lived in South for decades and still cant speak the local language properly and they get by quite fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 so surely they can ask around when travelling in TN which is even better than the signs. Mate Tamils can't understand Malayalam How will we understand what he is asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 The thing is, this has been a project of the centre since independence. Gandhi, Nehru, and other Congress head honchos were big on imposing "Hindustani" and "Urdu" on the rest of the country, see below: ... When India got independence, Congrats govt decided that English and Hindi will be official language for 15 years and then only Hindi will be after that. But in 1965 when the time came and the Congress govt under Shastri tried to implement it , huge protests erupted throughout Tamil Nadu with more than 90 people losing their lives. Only hen Indian govt realised how emotive the issues is here down south and embraced the current Unity in diversity. Gandhi and Nehru made a blunder but their next generation leaders to a very significant cost later realised how wrong they were. Tamil Nadu was the first state(in 1967 right after Hindi agitations) where Congress lost power to a regional party after Independence and were never able to return to power. The Dark Horse and Tibarn 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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