Sir Jadeja averages 50 with bat in last 10 matches

[Tibarn]

2 hours ago, sourab10forever said:

Ben Stokes will soon be right up there.

 

Do you mean on the top of the rankings or in the league of Kallis? 

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, Pollack said:

Outside subcontinent particularly in SA, NZ, Aus and ENG, one cannot even expect him to chip 20-30 odds. This home season he has mostly enjoyed riding on a very good platform set by top order and conditions being relatively easier by the time he bats.

Guess you forgot about Jaddu scoring that pivotal half century that set up a rare test win in Englund.   

 

Not saying that he can be counted on to score runs away from Asia.  But he's like a lottery ticket that might just pay off.   Regardless, he shouldn't be in the XI unless he can be a wicket-taking bowler away from home.  

[Temujin Khaghan]

Our lower middle and tail in SA

Ashwin

Saha

Pandya

Bhuvi

Shami

Yadav

 

Only if ashwin fails horribly I will replace him with jaddu because once ashwin is replaced, our lower middle will become fragile. Saha is a mental midget and jadeja is technically deficient to deal with bounce. Kohli favours ashwin more, so I have my hopes. As others have pointed out, if ashwin bowls spells which are low on e/r and even if he takes only 1/2 wickets per innings thats more than enough. He is a better batsman than the fraud rohit.

[Temujin Khaghan]

11 hours ago, Tibarn said:

Jaddu is the 2nd ranked Test allrounder in the world, 1 point ahead of Ash.

 

It's sad that none of the top 10 allrounders are even close to the class of Kallis. Hopefully Pandya reaches those heights.    

Ashwin's batting> kallis' bowling

Ashwin can end up with numbers right up there with the legendary 4 of 1980s.

[sourab10forever]

7 hours ago, Tibarn said:

Do you mean on the top of the rankings or in the league of Kallis? 

Rankings.

 

[Trichromatic]

27 minutes ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

Ashwin's batting> kallis' bowling

Ashwin can end up with numbers right up there with the legendary 4 of 1980s.

And his bowling is nowhere close to kallis' batting

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, sandeep said:

Let's not anoint him as a batsman or even an allrounder - but he's proving himself to be a very handy #8.  If you expect him to chip in with the odd 20 or 30 runs, he will continue to exceed expectations.  Its when you start expecting regular 50s, you will end up disappointed.   

 

I want him to score a 100, just to see what kind of mad celebration he will come up with - I'm in the minority of folks who think his 50 celebration is awesome.  

50 is a big thing for anyone batting at 9.

[Tibarn]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Did Kallis ever topped the ICC ranking for alrounders. I am not sure because his batting was great but dont think he bowled enough as a bowler. Kallis became a reluctant bowler once he established himself as a top batsman.

Yes, in 2000:

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2125&graph=rating

 

Also, the highest rating Kallis achieved as an allrounder was 506. I guess that puts the ratings in perspective. An ATG allrounder hovers close to a 500 rating. Shakib is the #1 allrounder today, but he is all the way down at a 430 rating. 

 

[cowboysfan]

I would not even play Ash in SA if they prepare a green wicket,just play Jaddu and an extra fast bowler (not Lambu).

[Temujin Khaghan]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

And his bowling is nowhere close to kallis' batting

very harsh. "nowhere close" is not the right word my friend

sure Kallis has proven allround batting ability in 160+ test matches where as ashwin is playing only his 51st and yet to prove his allround bowling ability in fast bowling conditions.

But can Kallis be a team killer and destroy teams repeatedly on his home turf the way ashwin does in asia?

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Tibarn said:

Yes, in 2000:

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2125&graph=rating

 

Also, the highest rating Kallis achieved as an allrounder was 506. I guess that puts the ratings in perspective. An ATG allrounder hovers close to a 500 rating. Shakib is the #1 allrounder today, but he is all the way down at a 430 rating. 

 

A batting alrounder has a higher chance of getting close to Kallis. Someone like Stokes but he needs to bat 4 or 5.

[Temujin Khaghan]

Ashwin's career best allrounder rating is

493 v England, 29/11/2016   Shakib 443 and ravi jadeja only 422

[gakgupta]

22 minutes ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

very harsh. "nowhere close" is not the right word my friend

sure Kallis has proven allround batting ability in 160+ test matches where as ashwin is playing only his 51st and yet to prove his allround bowling ability in fast bowling conditions.

But can Kallis be a team killer and destroy teams repeatedly on his home turf the way ashwin does in asia?

Holy Moly....

 

In that case, lets compare kallis @ 50 matches vs Ashwin @50 matches...

 

Ashwin didn't do great bowling in non-asian conditions """agreed""""....so is kallis.....he didn't bowled well in asian conditions.....

 

Ashwin batted well in asian and non-asian conditions....

 

So, i would say scores are pretty even.....

 

Also...pls check Kallis batting average against australia.....it's been pretty pathetic... That's why i don't respect Kallis much.....Great batsmen should score against great teams...

 

I would say, Ashwin is a bowling allrounder and kallis is batting allrounder .....Both are invaluable to their teams and I believe ashwin will accomplish far more than kallis after 150+ matches...

 

Also, after how many matches, kallis reach the milestone of 2000+ runs and 200+ wickts....that will tell the whole story......

 

[Temujin Khaghan]

Ashwin's batting dipped in the last 10 matches, otherwise he would have easily gone close to 520

 

Imran Khan highest rating 513 btw

[gakgupta]

30 minutes ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

very harsh. "nowhere close" is not the right word my friend

sure Kallis has proven allround batting ability in 160+ test matches where as ashwin is playing only his 51st and yet to prove his allround bowling ability in fast bowling conditions.

But can Kallis be a team killer and destroy teams repeatedly on his home turf the way ashwin does in asia?

Moreover check his batting stats against Australia....both home and away.....he was a disaster....

[Trichromatic]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

A batting alrounder has a higher chance of getting close to Kallis. Someone like Stokes but he needs to bat 4 or 5.

Botham had peak of 646, Kallis 616, Imran 518, Kapil 433, Pollock 490, 

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Botham had peak of 646, Kallis 616, Imran 518, Kapil 433, Pollock 490, 

we will have to see what contributed more to that peak batting or bowling or both were as good. Achieving such a high peak wont be possible if only one of these two skills is dominating.

 

One more thing I would like to add. We are yet to see a true alrounder who is as good in both the departments and could make the team on both counts. None of Botham, Imran, Kapil, Pollock would make the team on batting alone. Neither Kallis would make the team on bowling alone. Was there anyone who could do that?

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

One more thing I would like to add. We are yet to see a true alrounder who is as good in both the departments and could make the team on both counts. None of Botham, Imran, Kapil, Pollock would make the team on batting alone. Neither Kallis would make the team on bowling alone. Was there anyone who could do that?

Botham was 2nd on the list of most 100s in world from his debut to India tour in 1982. Gavaskar had 14 centuries and Botham has 11. He was 6th on the list of most runs during that time. Only Boycott and Gower had better average than him.

 

List of English batsmen during first 7 years from his debut

 

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
G Boycott	1977-1982	45	83	9	3535	191	47.77	10388	34.02	10	16	4	278	0
DI Gower	1978-1984	54	94	8	3775	200*	43.89	7985	47.27	7	19	6	439	6
AJ Lamb	1982-1984	16	30	3	1074	137*	39.77	2103	51.06	3	5	3	139	4
IT Botham	1977-1984	64	101	3	3686	208	37.61	5970	61.74	13	14	10	431	46
GA Gooch	1978-1982	40	71	4	2503	153	37.35	5074	49.32	4	15	3	295	7
DW Randall	1977-1984	34	57	5	1841	164	35.40	4100	44.90	5	9	8	186	4
CJ Tavare	1980-1984	27	50	2	1665	149	34.68	5352	31.10	2	12	5	168	0
G Miller	1977-1983	30	44	4	1105	98*	27.62	3141	35.17	0	7	4	106	0
RW Taylor	1977-1984	51	74	12	1083	97	17.46	3957	27.36	0	3	9	91	1

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Botham was 2nd on the list of most 100s in world from his debut to India tour in 1982. Gavaskar had 14 centuries and Botham has 11. He was 6th on the list of most runs during that time. Only Boycott and Gower had better average than him.

 

List of English batsmen during first 7 years from his debut

 

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
G Boycott	1977-1982	45	83	9	3535	191	47.77	10388	34.02	10	16	4	278	0
DI Gower	1978-1984	54	94	8	3775	200*	43.89	7985	47.27	7	19	6	439	6
AJ Lamb	1982-1984	16	30	3	1074	137*	39.77	2103	51.06	3	5	3	139	4
IT Botham	1977-1984	64	101	3	3686	208	37.61	5970	61.74	13	14	10	431	46
GA Gooch	1978-1982	40	71	4	2503	153	37.35	5074	49.32	4	15	3	295	7
DW Randall	1977-1984	34	57	5	1841	164	35.40	4100	44.90	5	9	8	186	4
CJ Tavare	1980-1984	27	50	2	1665	149	34.68	5352	31.10	2	12	5	168	0
G Miller	1977-1983	30	44	4	1105	98*	27.62	3141	35.17	0	7	4	106	0
RW Taylor	1977-1984	51	74	12	1083	97	17.46	3957	27.36	0	3	9	91	1

That explains it. He would have had wickets too.

Edited August 5, 2017 by rkt.india

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

That explains it. He would have had wickets too.

Botham was only all rounder who could get into team with both batting and bowling. During first 4-5 years of his career he was averaging 20-22 with ball too with many 5-fers. He is probably only all rounder who has been in top 10 of both batting and bowling.