Tibarn Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 2 hours ago, sourab10forever said: Ben Stokes will soon be right up there. Do you mean on the top of the rankings or in the league of Kallis? Link to comment
sandeep Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Pollack said: Outside subcontinent particularly in SA, NZ, Aus and ENG, one cannot even expect him to chip 20-30 odds. This home season he has mostly enjoyed riding on a very good platform set by top order and conditions being relatively easier by the time he bats. Guess you forgot about Jaddu scoring that pivotal half century that set up a rare test win in Englund. Not saying that he can be counted on to score runs away from Asia. But he's like a lottery ticket that might just pay off. Regardless, he shouldn't be in the XI unless he can be a wicket-taking bowler away from home. Link to comment
Temujin Khaghan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Our lower middle and tail in SA Ashwin Saha Pandya Bhuvi Shami Yadav Only if ashwin fails horribly I will replace him with jaddu because once ashwin is replaced, our lower middle will become fragile. Saha is a mental midget and jadeja is technically deficient to deal with bounce. Kohli favours ashwin more, so I have my hopes. As others have pointed out, if ashwin bowls spells which are low on e/r and even if he takes only 1/2 wickets per innings thats more than enough. He is a better batsman than the fraud rohit. Link to comment
Temujin Khaghan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 11 hours ago, Tibarn said: Jaddu is the 2nd ranked Test allrounder in the world, 1 point ahead of Ash. It's sad that none of the top 10 allrounders are even close to the class of Kallis. Hopefully Pandya reaches those heights. Ashwin's batting> kallis' bowling Ashwin can end up with numbers right up there with the legendary 4 of 1980s. Link to comment
sourab10forever Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 7 hours ago, Tibarn said: Do you mean on the top of the rankings or in the league of Kallis? Rankings. Link to comment
Trichromatic Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, Temujin Khaghan said: Ashwin's batting> kallis' bowling Ashwin can end up with numbers right up there with the legendary 4 of 1980s. And his bowling is nowhere close to kallis' batting Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 14 hours ago, sandeep said: Let's not anoint him as a batsman or even an allrounder - but he's proving himself to be a very handy #8. If you expect him to chip in with the odd 20 or 30 runs, he will continue to exceed expectations. Its when you start expecting regular 50s, you will end up disappointed. I want him to score a 100, just to see what kind of mad celebration he will come up with - I'm in the minority of folks who think his 50 celebration is awesome. 50 is a big thing for anyone batting at 9. Link to comment
Tibarn Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Did Kallis ever topped the ICC ranking for alrounders. I am not sure because his batting was great but dont think he bowled enough as a bowler. Kallis became a reluctant bowler once he established himself as a top batsman. Yes, in 2000: http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2125&graph=rating Also, the highest rating Kallis achieved as an allrounder was 506. I guess that puts the ratings in perspective. An ATG allrounder hovers close to a 500 rating. Shakib is the #1 allrounder today, but he is all the way down at a 430 rating. Link to comment
cowboysfan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I would not even play Ash in SA if they prepare a green wicket,just play Jaddu and an extra fast bowler (not Lambu). Link to comment
Temujin Khaghan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Trichromatic said: And his bowling is nowhere close to kallis' batting very harsh. "nowhere close" is not the right word my friend sure Kallis has proven allround batting ability in 160+ test matches where as ashwin is playing only his 51st and yet to prove his allround bowling ability in fast bowling conditions. But can Kallis be a team killer and destroy teams repeatedly on his home turf the way ashwin does in asia? Gollum 1 Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Tibarn said: Yes, in 2000: http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/odi/all-rounder/?id=2125&graph=rating Also, the highest rating Kallis achieved as an allrounder was 506. I guess that puts the ratings in perspective. An ATG allrounder hovers close to a 500 rating. Shakib is the #1 allrounder today, but he is all the way down at a 430 rating. A batting alrounder has a higher chance of getting close to Kallis. Someone like Stokes but he needs to bat 4 or 5. Link to comment
Temujin Khaghan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Ashwin's career best allrounder rating is 493 v England, 29/11/2016 Shakib 443 and ravi jadeja only 422 Link to comment
gakgupta Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 22 minutes ago, Temujin Khaghan said: very harsh. "nowhere close" is not the right word my friend sure Kallis has proven allround batting ability in 160+ test matches where as ashwin is playing only his 51st and yet to prove his allround bowling ability in fast bowling conditions. But can Kallis be a team killer and destroy teams repeatedly on his home turf the way ashwin does in asia? Holy Moly.... In that case, lets compare kallis @ 50 matches vs Ashwin @50 matches... Ashwin didn't do great bowling in non-asian conditions """agreed""""....so is kallis.....he didn't bowled well in asian conditions..... Ashwin batted well in asian and non-asian conditions.... So, i would say scores are pretty even..... Also...pls check Kallis batting average against australia.....it's been pretty pathetic... That's why i don't respect Kallis much.....Great batsmen should score against great teams... I would say, Ashwin is a bowling allrounder and kallis is batting allrounder .....Both are invaluable to their teams and I believe ashwin will accomplish far more than kallis after 150+ matches... Also, after how many matches, kallis reach the milestone of 2000+ runs and 200+ wickts....that will tell the whole story...... Link to comment
Temujin Khaghan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Ashwin's batting dipped in the last 10 matches, otherwise he would have easily gone close to 520 Imran Khan highest rating 513 btw Link to comment
gakgupta Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 30 minutes ago, Temujin Khaghan said: very harsh. "nowhere close" is not the right word my friend sure Kallis has proven allround batting ability in 160+ test matches where as ashwin is playing only his 51st and yet to prove his allround bowling ability in fast bowling conditions. But can Kallis be a team killer and destroy teams repeatedly on his home turf the way ashwin does in asia? Moreover check his batting stats against Australia....both home and away.....he was a disaster.... Link to comment
Trichromatic Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, rkt.india said: A batting alrounder has a higher chance of getting close to Kallis. Someone like Stokes but he needs to bat 4 or 5. Botham had peak of 646, Kallis 616, Imran 518, Kapil 433, Pollock 490, Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: Botham had peak of 646, Kallis 616, Imran 518, Kapil 433, Pollock 490, we will have to see what contributed more to that peak batting or bowling or both were as good. Achieving such a high peak wont be possible if only one of these two skills is dominating. One more thing I would like to add. We are yet to see a true alrounder who is as good in both the departments and could make the team on both counts. None of Botham, Imran, Kapil, Pollock would make the team on batting alone. Neither Kallis would make the team on bowling alone. Was there anyone who could do that? Link to comment
Trichromatic Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: One more thing I would like to add. We are yet to see a true alrounder who is as good in both the departments and could make the team on both counts. None of Botham, Imran, Kapil, Pollock would make the team on batting alone. Neither Kallis would make the team on bowling alone. Was there anyone who could do that? Botham was 2nd on the list of most 100s in world from his debut to India tour in 1982. Gavaskar had 14 centuries and Botham has 11. He was 6th on the list of most runs during that time. Only Boycott and Gower had better average than him. List of English batsmen during first 7 years from his debut Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s G Boycott 1977-1982 45 83 9 3535 191 47.77 10388 34.02 10 16 4 278 0 DI Gower 1978-1984 54 94 8 3775 200* 43.89 7985 47.27 7 19 6 439 6 AJ Lamb 1982-1984 16 30 3 1074 137* 39.77 2103 51.06 3 5 3 139 4 IT Botham 1977-1984 64 101 3 3686 208 37.61 5970 61.74 13 14 10 431 46 GA Gooch 1978-1982 40 71 4 2503 153 37.35 5074 49.32 4 15 3 295 7 DW Randall 1977-1984 34 57 5 1841 164 35.40 4100 44.90 5 9 8 186 4 CJ Tavare 1980-1984 27 50 2 1665 149 34.68 5352 31.10 2 12 5 168 0 G Miller 1977-1983 30 44 4 1105 98* 27.62 3141 35.17 0 7 4 106 0 RW Taylor 1977-1984 51 74 12 1083 97 17.46 3957 27.36 0 3 9 91 1 Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: Botham was 2nd on the list of most 100s in world from his debut to India tour in 1982. Gavaskar had 14 centuries and Botham has 11. He was 6th on the list of most runs during that time. Only Boycott and Gower had better average than him. List of English batsmen during first 7 years from his debut Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s G Boycott 1977-1982 45 83 9 3535 191 47.77 10388 34.02 10 16 4 278 0 DI Gower 1978-1984 54 94 8 3775 200* 43.89 7985 47.27 7 19 6 439 6 AJ Lamb 1982-1984 16 30 3 1074 137* 39.77 2103 51.06 3 5 3 139 4 IT Botham 1977-1984 64 101 3 3686 208 37.61 5970 61.74 13 14 10 431 46 GA Gooch 1978-1982 40 71 4 2503 153 37.35 5074 49.32 4 15 3 295 7 DW Randall 1977-1984 34 57 5 1841 164 35.40 4100 44.90 5 9 8 186 4 CJ Tavare 1980-1984 27 50 2 1665 149 34.68 5352 31.10 2 12 5 168 0 G Miller 1977-1983 30 44 4 1105 98* 27.62 3141 35.17 0 7 4 106 0 RW Taylor 1977-1984 51 74 12 1083 97 17.46 3957 27.36 0 3 9 91 1 That explains it. He would have had wickets too. Edited August 5, 2017 by rkt.india Link to comment
Trichromatic Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: That explains it. He would have had wickets too. Botham was only all rounder who could get into team with both batting and bowling. During first 4-5 years of his career he was averaging 20-22 with ball too with many 5-fers. He is probably only all rounder who has been in top 10 of both batting and bowling. Link to comment
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