Bhuvi as 3rd seamer in SA Tests

[cowboysfan]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

I  feel Shami and Pandya are the only 2 locks if fit.... and maybe Ashwin as a batter

 

Seaming track - Shami,   Umesh,   Bhuvi,   Pandya,   Ashwin

 

Flatter track - Shami,   Umesh / Bhuvi,   Pandya,   Ashwin,   Kuldeep / Jadeja

 

Pandya will play for his attacking batting

I would frankly not pick Ashwin in the Squad.I am not expecting to see any pitches to assist him at all.for me  Jadeja and Kuldeep should be in the squad and i would like to see Kuldeep in the 11 because the saffers will not be able to pick him at all.

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

I would frankly not pick Ashwin in the Squad.I am not expecting to see any pitches to assist him at all.for me  Jadeja and Kuldeep should be in the squad and i would like to see Kuldeep in the 11 because the saffers will not be able to pick him at all.

Kuldeep offers a tantalizing possibility, but he needs to force his way into the starting XI with an effective performance in the warm-up game.  People are assuming that he will be able to get purchase on the wickets that the South Africans will prepare.

[Vijy]

23 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I wouldn't go the Kuldeep route to start with, I like having Ash in there for his batting.  Historically we've been vulnerable with the bat in SA, especially in the 1st match of series.   I hope M00Li is fit and in form by January.  

ashwin is not good enough to be picked for his batting alone. I expect Murli to be unfit/out of form.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Kuldeep offers a tantalizing possibility, but he needs to force his way into the starting XI with an effective performance in the warm-up game.  People are assuming that he will be able to get purchase on the wickets that the South Africans will prepare.

I don't know if he'll get purchase, etc. but I would expect him to get more than Ashwin in a comparative sense.

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I don't know if he'll get purchase, etc. but I would expect him to get more than Ashwin in a comparative sense.

But if both aren't getting much "purchase", then Ashwin's batting makes  him the better choice. 

[Pollack]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Your claim that we start the series with 2 spinners in the XI as default is questionable.  Especially since SA are guaranteed to roll out a track that nullifies spin for a minimum of 4 out of 5 days.  Like they did against Lanka, and even lowly Bangladesh.  

SA would roll out green mambas and it wouldn't be graveyard for spinners. They aren't serving flat tracks imho.

 

Ashwin and Jadeja are no 1 and 2 bowlers in test. Don't think rat is that much of an assertive captain who don't give a sh!t about anything but conditions and teams best interest. Repution, rankings, seniority does clog his mind. He is an upgrade over Dhoni and may eventually get better. I think we are going to win this series under Kohli.

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

That is the key question for India in terms of XI selection for the SA series.   Assuming Shami stays fully fit.  

 

IMHO, Bhuvi is undroppable for this series - and I know I'm not totally unbiased.  But playing Pandya as a 3rd seamer in test cricket is a bit of a stretch at this point.  He has not demonstrated the physical capacity to bowl 20 overs in a day of cricket, and do it more than once within 5 days.   Pandya has a bit of work to do, and some time to go before he can be anything more than a part-time or 5th bowling option, especially in test cricket, at this point of time.  

 

So according to me, Bhuvi, Yadav, Shami are locks at 9, 10 and 11.   The question boils down to whether we play the best 2 spinners in the world or we pick one of them and punt on Pandya.  And if we do the latter, which one do we go with - Ash provides the better batting ahead of Jaddu, while Jaddu brings his electric fielding and better ability to provide 'control' and quick overs regardless of surface.  

 

I would be inclined to look at 4 - 1 as the default, unless its an aussie style road.   And Ash is the front-runner for the lone spinner spot, given his quality batting, and unambiguously yards better against pace bowling.  

i suppose on a green pitch its a toss up between Bhuv and Umesh. Pandya will play to shore up batting.

[Vilander]

An other unknown is how good is pandya on seaming wickets or swinging conditions. Is he better or par with Ash or is he worse i guess they will find out in the sa series.

[Vilander]

^ ment in batting

[sandeep]

People are just blindly slotting in Pandya  as 3rd  seamer when the guy has hardly bowled his full quota in ODIs.   This is not virtual or fantasy cricket.  There's the unanswered question of physical workload. He's at best a 4th seamer for tests right now.  There's no way Bhuvi misses out because of him.  Only way to accommodate him in SA is in place of one of the spin twins.  

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Pollack said:

SA would roll out green mambas and it wouldn't be graveyard for spinners. They aren't serving flat tracks imho.

S.A. took Herath out of the game in the recent home series against SL, by ensuring the ball doesn't grip at all.  If Herath can be nullified, Jadeja is no different.  

[Muloghonto]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

They are clueless only when ball turns. Not if they prepare green tops

Didn't Jadeja take a 6-fer in South Africa, against much better batting lineup (as in with ABDV and a HA who was still in great form) ?

 

What about if RSA don't prepare green-tops but a balding, bouncy pitch ? would you still go with a 4+1 pacer-spinner balance or 3+2 ?

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

I would frankly not pick Ashwin in the Squad.I am not expecting to see any pitches to assist him at all.for me  Jadeja and Kuldeep should be in the squad and i would like to see Kuldeep in the 11 because the saffers will not be able to pick him at all.

Kuldeep does not get to replace the guy who has taken nearly 300 wickets @ 25 average and 5 wickets/match, who is still producing those figures, if fit. Sorry.

[Muloghonto]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Would depend on the pitch

 

We will probably see 4 + 1 on green tracks  and 3+ 2 on flat surfaces

So do you think India is definitely going to go with 5 batsmen + 1 wicketkeeper + 5 players who can bowl option ?? 
If they do that, i'd think atleast two of Bhuvi, Jadeja and Ashwin are locks on the side every match because India would need to elongate its tail in the 5+1+5 format. 

 

And if India is doing so, would it not make more sense to go with 5+1+5 option vs Sri Lanka, just so we can get Ashwin/Saha used to more batting responsibility at #6 ?

[Sooda]

Bottom 6 On a pacier seamer friendly pitch-

 

Pandya, Ashwin, Saha, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Umesh

 

On a slower potentially spin friendly one-

 

Ashwin, Saha, Jadeja, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Umesh

 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Sooda said:

Bottom 6 On a pacier seamer friendly pitch-

 

Pandya, Ashwin, Saha, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Umesh

 

On a slower potentially spin friendly one-

 

Ashwin, Saha, Jadeja, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Umesh

 

I don't think Pandya should bat ahead of Ashwin or Saha in tests. Because Pandya is a more rapid scorer and Saha/Ashwin are more classical 'slow to start and 60-ish strike rate after scoring 30-40 runs' kinda people, they need to bat ahead of Pandya. 

I feel if Pandya plays, in South Africa, in tests, he is good for a rapid-fire 30-50 runs.

 

Agree with your slower pitch option.

 

[Vijy]

27 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I don't think Pandya should bat ahead of Ashwin or Saha in tests. Because Pandya is a more rapid scorer and Saha/Ashwin are more classical 'slow to start and 60-ish strike rate after scoring 30-40 runs' kinda people, they need to bat ahead of Pandya. 

I feel if Pandya plays, in South Africa, in tests, he is good for a rapid-fire 30-50 runs.

 

Agree with your slower pitch option.

 

slower pitches are unlikely in SA.

[Sooda]

29 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I don't think Pandya should bat ahead of Ashwin or Saha in tests. Because Pandya is a more rapid scorer and Saha/Ashwin are more classical 'slow to start and 60-ish strike rate after scoring 30-40 runs' kinda people, they need to bat ahead of Pandya. 

I feel if Pandya plays, in South Africa, in tests, he is good for a rapid-fire 30-50 runs.

 

Yeah good pt.

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

slower pitches are unlikely in SA.

yep. especially after the kind of square turners we served them. I am just not sure if they are gonna go for a fast, bouncy pitch or a fast-ish seaming pitch. one would favour Rabada, the other more in Philander's alley. I feel they'd give us fast bouncy pitches, because RSA is far better themselves at handling it than seaming wickets (i.e., England) and of our bowlers, i feel Shami/Bhuvi are bigger threats on seaming pitches than a fast,bouncy pitch.

[Vijy]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

yep. especially after the kind of square turners we served them. I am just not sure if they are gonna go for a fast, bouncy pitch or a fast-ish seaming pitch. one would favour Rabada, the other more in Philander's alley. I feel they'd give us fast bouncy pitches, because RSA is far better themselves at handling it than seaming wickets (i.e., England) and of our bowlers, i feel Shami/Bhuvi are bigger threats on seaming pitches than a fast,bouncy pitch.

it could be something with both. I think durban at its most bowler-friendly was like that, but with more seam/swing. If they go with bounce, then Pandya will be more effective.