Is Shakib world's first AR who can get into teams with either skills?

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

Agree with all except that not only Shakib  but the likes of

 Kapil,Botham,Sobers Kallis,Imran,Tony Greig,Vinoo Mankad,Keith Miller etc etc too could have walked into teams with either skill.

For instance take some one like Botham. He avg:ed  33.54 after 102 tests.Bowlers he faced were FAB4,Walsh,Akram,Imran,Hadlee,Lillee etc etc.All avg:ing under 25.Now how many avg: under 25 except Steyn? .The likes of Jadeja   ,Ashwin ,Rabada etc etc  would soon be avg:ing  way past 25 once they start to play lot more in unfavourable conditions.I am sure the mean avg: of top 10 bowlers Botham faced would atleast differ by 2 from what is the case with Shakib.That being the case Botham's 33.54 would be atleast  37.54 of today's(2 difference in   bowling avg: equals 4 difference in batting avg:)And we need to add in other factors too like comparatively lower str: rates in the 80s etc etc.These are the reasons I believe some one like Botham is lot closer to Shakib as a batsman then the difference in  plain avg: suggests. Similarly a   lot  with others too.

 

 

low bowling averages also indicate you about the quality of batting. Tailender batting was pretty much nonexistent in those days. Also, in most of the teams, you exclude 1-2 good to great batsmen, rest were just average.

[Austin 3:!6]

I don't rate him at all and he would not feature in Indian team. Dont just go by stats which are hugely inflated by playing against weaker opponents at home. 

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

I don't rate him at all and he would not feature in Indian team. Dont just go by stats which are hugely inflated by playing against weaker opponents at home. 

Which weaker opponents? Hugely inflated is an overstatement.

[vvvslaxman]

It is Bangladesh. he could walk in just as fielder for them lol.

[Austin 3:!6]

12 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Which weaker opponents? Hugely inflated is an overstatement.

May be but he never impress me. Always goes missing against bigger opponents when chips are down. 

 

He has atrocious bowling avg in tests vs Asian countries who plays spin well.

Avg 43 vs Ind, 64 vs Pak and 41 vs SL

 

In ODIs its even worse and he avg 36 with the ball if you exclude Zimbabwe.

 

His batting is no great either...cant play big shots...not great at rotating strike. Avg 31 with bat in ODIs if you exclude Zimb. Yes his test batting stats may look good (avg 41) but his 30 tests out of total 44 is in BD. 

 

Ravi Jadeja hands down is a better all rounder than Shakib. Got better stats overall and if we include fielding, he is a much better cricketer.

[Pollack]

6 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Which team won't pick a batsman averaging 41 or a spinner with 17 fifers in 50 matches? India maybe, but he will get into all other teams in world with his batting or bowling.

He would make into teams as both batsman and bowler combined but not purely on one of the two because he is not that good in either. An upgrade over bits and pieces player and thus a genuine allrounder but not a very good one.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Pollack

[Trichromatic]

7 minutes ago, Pollack said:

He would make into teams as both batsman and bowler combined but not purely on one of the two because he is not that good in either. An upgrade over bits and pieces player and thus a genuine allrounder but not a very good one.

Bits and pieces players pick 17 5-fers? Which other upgrades  of bits and pieces have picked 17 5fers or averaged over 40 in 50 tests?

[jusarrived]

He would not get into the Indian teams either as a bowler or a batsmen , infact most teams would not pick him as pure batsmen . Some non SC teams with no good spinners , he may have a shot as a spinner .

[jusarrived]

32 minutes ago, Pollack said:

He would make into teams as both batsman and bowler combined but not purely on one of the two because he is not that good in either. An upgrade over bits and pieces player and thus a genuine allrounder but not a very good one.

exactly , touch above bits and pieces but no where close to Test class on either aspects . 

[Pollack]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Bits and pieces players pick 17 5-fers? Which other upgrades  of bits and pieces have picked 17 5fers or averaged over 40 in 50 tests?

Bro, I said he is genuine allrounder but not very good one. 

[Zero_Unit]

Definitely a good player - I would replace Jadeja for him all day everyday -  but I am curious to know how many of those runs/wickets came against the likes of Zim. How much difference do we see in the avg if we take Zim out of the equation?

[mancalledsting]

He's an excellent player, helping elevate a team previously considered no-hopers. If he played in a better team, it's likely he'd have better stats. 

[Executioner]

12 hours ago, Zero_Unit said:

Definitely a good player - I would replace Jadeja for him all day everyday -  but I am curious to know how many of those runs/wickets came against the likes of Zim. How much difference do we see in the avg if we take Zim out of the equation?

41 with bat and 33 with ball. That's a difference of 8 which is stellar.

[Executioner]

20 hours ago, jusarrived said:

He would not get into the Indian teams either as a bowler or a batsmen , infact most teams would not pick him as pure batsmen . Some non SC teams with no good spinners , he may have a shot as a spinner .

India are the only side who won't pick him as a batsman alone. He is better than Khawaja/Maxwell. Better than behardien Duminy bavuma. NZ side too will pick him in the middle order. Pakistan after losing YK and Misbah wouldn't mind. Lanka/WI/Zim less said the better.

 

Career average of 42 and recent average of 50 + he would not have too many issues.

 

This is also true that he would struggle in ODIs where he is a better bowler than a batsman. 

[Vijy]

he is a genuine all-rounder. he has been particularly effective against NZ for instance.