Virat King Kohli : 2nd most number of hundreds in the history of ODIs

[kira]

15 hours ago, narenpande1 said:

Kohli is the GREATEST EVER ODI PLAYER. No debate required.

 

12 hours ago, Tibarn said:

 

Highest averages

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RN ten Doeschate (NL)	2006-2011	33	32	9	1541	119	67.00	1757	87.70	5	9	1	130	29
V Kohli (INDIA)	2008-2017	194	186	32	8587	183	55.75	9362	91.72	30	44	11	803	94
Babar Azam (PAK)	2015-2017	31	31	4	1455	125*	53.88	1643	88.55	5	6	0	120	17
MG Bevan (AUS)	1994-2004	232	196	67	6912	108*	53.58	9320	74.16	6	46	5	450	21
AB de Villiers (Afr/SA)	2005-2017	222	213	39	9319	162*	53.55	9295	100.25	24	53	7	819	194
MS Dhoni (Asia/INDIA)	2004-2017	301	259	74	9658	183*	52.20	10903	88.58	10	65	8	741	210

Overall average has went up to 55.75 after this series. 

Now he needs to take his strike rate up to 100 as well 

[Nonbeliever]

Even dhawan will have more than 20 hundreds by this rate.  So he will be better than most of the greats.  Amla is also better than Viv,srt.

[Gollum]

So much intellectual dishonesty and glory hunting among many posters on ICF. Pretty sure in the future when some kid comes and scores at an average of 80 with SR 150 on decks where 450 is a par ODI score, they will mock Kohli just like they are mocking SRT and Viv here. Reminds me of a famous saying:- There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[express bowling]

55 minutes ago, Gollum said:

OK, got it. So Wahab/Aamir>>>>Imran, Ws

In ODIs,  Richards averaged only 30 against Pakistan

 

Further.... he did not play more than a couple of matches against Waqar.

 

When Wasim became a good ODI bowler.... Imran was nearing the end of his bowling career.

 

Umar Gul, Md. Amir, Saeed Ajmal and Md. Irfan are very good ODI bowlers .... it is immaterial how they are in test matches.

 

Quote

Wiley, Stokes, Plunkett, Woakes>>>>>Botham, Willis

As ODI bowlers, the quality is pretty much similar.   Willis was a top TEST bowler.

 

Quote

and England was a mediocre team in spite of making 3 finals in the 1st 5 editions unlike today's England which wins WCs just like that

I was talking about mediocre bowlers and not necessarily mediocre sides.  Lots of ODIs are / were  won by good batting, unlike test matches where you have to take 20 wickets to win.

 

Further, in that era, there were  fewer good ODI teams.... SA, SL were not there / rookie team. 

 

Quote

Bhuvi>>>>>Kapil and

No... but Bumrah and Shami are atleast as good as Kapil as ODI bowlers.

Quote

India was mediocre in 1983 and 1985 (where in spite of bowling out all teams we were just a mediocre bowling unit) 

Again mediocre bowling attack which had only Kapil as star ODI bowler.

Quote

some random NZ pace battery>>>>Hadlee+friends because as you so rightly pointed out...just play off Hadlee and it is easy runs. Must be so damn simple, just play out Mcgrath, just play out Marshall, just play out Ambrose...then make merry.

Boult, McCleneghan, Southee / Mills  as a whole have more pressure building ability in ODIs.

 

If you played out MCGrath.... you still had Warne, Lee, Gillespie etc to contend with

If you played out Marshall you still had Garner, Holding, and later on Walsh etc. to contend with..... your logic does not apply here.

 

Quote

Wonder why Kohli didn't apply this wonderful advice by playing out Anderson and milking the others in 2014?

In test matches there is no over restriction.  Also, there were other good pacers like Broad and Woakes to follow.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, Gollum said:

So much intellectual dishonesty and glory hunting among many posters on ICF. Pretty sure in the future when some kid comes and scores at an average of 80 with SR 150 on decks where 450 is a par ODI score, they will mock Kohli just like they are mocking SRT and Viv here. Reminds me of a famous saying:- There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

It is very difficult to compare eras.

 

Trying to do so is more of an intellectual dishonesty.

 

There  were some things better then and some things better now.

 

Saying that all the past greats were better than all the current greats is as much a fallacy as saying the other way round.

 

There are so many factors that influence the ultimate results and would take more than 5 pages to even discuss.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Yaar you are correct, spot on. That era had only Hadllee , who is he in front of the ferocious Southee? Only Imran, only Lillee, only Kapil, only Botham, only Willis, only Akram, only Mc Dermott,  only Pascoe, saare ghatiya bowler hai naa? Who are they in front of modern day bowling greats? Thank God Hadlee never had to bowl at Kohli else he would have retired as a one ODI/test wonder. After all Kohli is a master of off stump seaming/swinging deliveries that he so wonderfully exhibited in 2014 against the real greats like Broad and Anderson. On NZ green tops against Hadlee with the red cherry I am sure Kohli would have scored a 25 ball ton every 2nd innings. Viv Richards hai kaun?

 

Don't forget the pitches these days yaar, so hard to bat on. Kookaburra swings like a banana till 20th over(sorry 40 overs due to 2 new balls) as opposed to the red dukes during Viv's time which faded away after the 1st over, right? Now we have a one bouncer rule unlike the 70s and 80s which had unlimited bouncers rule, must be so difficult for modern day batsmen. Fielding restrictions, powerplay rules etc are such a tough proposition for modern day batsman because they are there to help bowlers, just like free hits and 55 m boundaries. Modern day bats are also another hindrance because unlike them in earlier bats, just wave the bat in your hands and ball would go for 200m six, hence so many sixes back then. 

 

You are right man, thanks for disseminating knowledge, both you and others in this thread. I have come to the understanding that Viv is an ordinary batsman, forget Kohli, he is even more mediocre than Rayudu. Kohli is GOAT, Kohli is life, gosh I feel enlightened. 

Botham and Willis may be great ODI bowlers for you, not for me. Both have strike ate of 43 and 44 with average of 28 in that supposedly bowling friendly era that too bowling in England. Kapil Dev had a mighty SR of 44 in ODIs. Len Pascoe played 29 ODIs. Dennis Lillie retired by 83 and only played 63 ODIs. 

 

Against Pakistan which I think had a very good ODI bowling unit first in Imran and Qadir, then with Akram, he averaged 30 in 41 games, 0 100s.

 

Rahi baat fielding restrictions ki. ODIs used to see field placings like test in those days. So, please dont talk about field restrictions and stop over-rating conditions in those days like they were playing grass lawns every game. Even conditions in England could be as flat as any where.

 

Yes, Viv was an outlier in ODIs because there were no other good ODI batsmen or batsmen who knew how to approach ODIs. You are also saying only if someone averages 65 and SR of 130 can only surpass Viv in ODIs that is stupid and a ridiculous parameter.

 

Now see who has Kohli faced in his 9 year career. The biggest one in that list is Murlidharan at his best, he tackled him rather easily. When our big dhurandhar collapsed to Mendis and Murli in tests in 2008, this guy debuted at 19 and showed how to deal with them in the ODI series that followed. Then lets talk about Broad and Anderson, both are as good a bowlers as Botham and Willis if not better. If you talk about 70s and 80s as bowling era, think how good these two could have been in those days. Then talk about Brett Lee, one of the best ODI bowlers ever, certainly in category of Hadlee, Lillie when it comes to ODIs. Then Mitchell Johnson averaged 25 in this era who is as good or probably better than Mcdermott, willis, Botham. Morkel averaged under 25 in this era, Dale Steyn averaging 26 in ODI, on the higher side than tests but still better than your Bothams and Willis'. Kagiso Rabada another bright spark in SA bowling. Mitchell Starc arguably one of the best ODI bowler ever along with McGrath, Garner, Brett Lee. Josh Hazelwood averaging under 24 in this era. Imran Tahir averaging 23 in this era while our leading Indian spinners average 30 and 35. Trent Boult from NZ averages 25.

 

Add Malinga, Saeed Ajmal, Narine to the list as well.

 

And these guys are from this era when you say we dont have good bowlers and Kohli has faced all of them in his career spanning 2008 to 2017.

Edited September 4, 2017 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

Modern day ODI bowlers are very under-rated.

 

After the T20 era began,  lots of skill-sets have developed .... like bowling yorkers with more consistency, more frequent usage of wider yorkers, knuckle balls, atleast 10 different types of slower balls.

 

There are many bowlers who may never be ATG test bowlers but are more effective in ODIs than ATG test bowlers.  

 

Many people mix up ATG test bowlers with top ODI bowlers.

 

Further .... bowlers like Starc, Bumrah, Malinga, Hazlewood, Johnson, Lee, Morkel, Steyn, Boult, Ajmal, Tahir, Narine, Mendis are some of the finest ODI bowlers to have played the game in the history of ODI cricket.

Edited September 4, 2017 by express bowling

[rtmohanlal]

Kohli's record is absolutely great.But still he needs to prove a bit more in tournament crunch situations in one dayers.Having said that it really surprises me as to why he could'nt repeat his amazing clutch performances in T20 tournaments into one dayers which are relatively slow paced!!!.Yes... he has time in his hand and hope he rectifies that.  

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Modern day ODI bowlers are very under-rated.

 

After the T20 era began,  lots of skill-sets have developed .... like bowling yorkers with more consistency, more frequent usage of wider yorkers, knuckle balls, atleast 10 different types of slower balls.

 

There are many bowlers who may never be ATG test bowlers but are more effective in ODIs than ATG test bowlers.  

Many people mix up ATG test bowlers with top ODI bowlers.

Further .... bowlers like Starc, Bumrah, Malinga, Hazlewood, Johnson, Lee, Morkel, Boult, Ajmal, Tahir, Narine, Mendis are some of the finest ODI bowlers to have played the game in the history of ODI cricket.

And among those only Lee, Malinga and Johnson have taken more than 200 wickets. 

 

From 2007 onwards, there hasn't been a single bowler who could average below 25 in ODIs with 200+ wickets.

 

I don't think bowlers of 1990s or 2000s would do any better than current set of bowlers, but I doubt that these modern great batsmen would be averaging same in 1990s. Players usually struggled to hit later on mostly because of old ball and then there was reverse swing to contend with. 

 

Lot of challenges have been eliminated by modern rules and new challenges have been added. It can be said that new challenges are less dependent on external conditions. It depends on bowlers abilities entirely now. Ealier challenges were aided more by conditions - old ball, pitch etc.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

And among those only Lee, Malinga and Johnson have taken more than 200 wickets. 

Most of them have not finished their careers yet.

 

4 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

From 2007 onwards, there hasn't been a single bowler who could average below 25 in ODIs with 200+ wickets.

Just like batting averages are being devalued these days in ODIs, bowling averages should be upscaled .....even a 28 bowling average is really good these days.

[rkt.india]

14 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

And among those only Lee, Malinga and Johnson have taken more than 200 wickets. 

 

 

How many of the bowlers Viv faced took 200 ODI wickets?. Imran averaged 26 in ODIs back then without taking 200 wickets. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by rkt.india

[Trichromatic]

Just now, express bowling said:

Most of them have not finished their careers yet.

 

Just like batting averages are being devalued these days in ODIs, bowling averages should be upscaled .....even a 28 bowling average is really good these days.

Yes, a bowler averaging 28 is really good, as good as bowler averaging 25 earlier

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Most of them have not finished their careers yet.

 

Just like batting averages are being devalued these days in ODIs, bowling averages should be upscaled .....even a 28 bowling average is really good these days.

Yes, every arm chair expert forgets to do that. 

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

that is because they have not played enough games yet.

Which mean these 10 years have started producing quality bowlers recently only.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Which mean these 10 years have started producing quality bowlers recently only.

It does not work like that. to take 200 wickets, one has to play 150-160 ODIs at least. It will take 6-7 years and regular place to play that many ODIs for a pacer these days. It is not, last years have only  started producing good bowlers now. Starc debuted in 2010, Hazelwood 2010, Morkel 2007, Steyn 2005. 

 

PS: How many of the bowlers Viv faced took 200 ODI wickets?. Imran averaged 26 in ODIs back then without taking 200 wickets. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Which mean these 10 years have started producing quality bowlers recently only.

Lee, Malinga, Afridi, Anderson, Shakib, Zaheer, Vettori, Johnson, Mills, Mortoza, Bhajjji, Abdur .... all have a career haul of 200 + wickets playing 5 to 10 years in the last 10 years.

 

There are many bowlers playing for 5 years who are on their way to 200 ODI wickets

[Wapas]

May be VK scored 100 more than VIV Richards in ODI but Virat  faced less fearful bowling than

Viv even without helmet.

 

India's SMG also hits 34 test century without Helmet vs stronger bowling attack including 13

Test century alone vs WI fast bowling.

 

Well Chiku is very attacking by nature which is the reasons behind his success.I think no one in the world like him, who plunder more runs in any cricket, while chasing

 

New one better and best in coming generation

 

AZHER

SMG

SRT

VK

SOMEONE IN NEXT DECADES.

[kira]

1 minute ago, Wapas said:

May be VK scored 100 more than VIV Richards in ODI but Virat  faced less fearful bowling than

Viv even without helmet.

 

India's SMG also hits 34 test century without Helmet vs stronger bowling attack including 13

Test century alone vs WI fast bowling.

 

Well Chiku is very attacking by nature which is the reasons behind his success.I think no one in the world like him, who plunder more runs in any cricket, while chasing

 

New one better and best in coming generation

 

AZHER

SMG

SRT

VK

SOMEONE IN NEXT DECADES.

Which were those fearful bowlers that sir viv faced in ODIs? Also how many quality spinners did sir viv face?

[Wapas]

4 minutes ago, kira said:

Which were those fearful bowlers that sir viv faced in ODIs? Also how many quality spinners did sir viv face?

Now we have separate ODI team but in mytime,test team and ODI team about same but yes I can tell you in my free time.I am on highway right now, enjoyed my long weekend.

[Vijy]

On 9/4/2017 at 6:38 AM, express bowling said:

Most of them have not finished their careers yet.

 

Just like batting averages are being devalued these days in ODIs, bowling averages should be upscaled .....even a 28 bowling average is really good these days.

currently, most of the ind bowlers have sub-25 avgs or thereabouts - Kuldeep, Chahal, Bumrah, Shami.