Arguments from the Veg friends against Meat Eating and the realities of the Nature

[Alam_dar]

23 minutes ago, zen said:

You are making too many assumptions and complicating matters. A vegetarian could have a crocodile as a pet

The questions that I asked, was not to mock any one, but these questions had been in my mind for a very long time. I remember that first time this question came into my mind when I was watching a Kungfu film as kid and there I saw a cheetah as pet in hands of Buddhist monks. And my mind immediately questioned how could the monks feed the cheetah without slaughtering cattle for him. 

It was something like this (but it was a cheetah).

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Alam_dar

[zen]

20 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

The questions that I asked, was not to mock any one, but these questions had been in my mind for a very long time. I remember that first time this question came into my mind when I was watching a Kungfu film as kid and there I saw a cheetah as pet in hands of Buddhist monks. And my mind immediately questioned how could the monks feed the cheetah without slaughtering cattle for him. 

It was something like this (but it was a cheetah).

 

There is actually a place where monks give shelter to tigers (may be the pic above is from that place). I would guess the tigers would be fed vegetarian stuff

 

The documentary (can’t recall name atm) is available on Netflix

[Muloghonto]

7 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I already touched this topic that heat during cooking destroys much of the vitamins and calcium etc.  Moreover, I hinted that cooking also release the toxins like free radicals. 

 

Let us go in depth of this Scientific Issue and see the details of toxins that are produced during cooking process:

 

Scientific facts about toxins in the cooked food:

 

Nitrates, Nitrites, HCAs and PAHs^1,2,3,4,5,14: Cooked meat and fish contain heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), both of which have been shown to be mutagenic and carcinogenic. One HCA in particular, 2‐amino‐3,8‐dimethylimidazo[4,5‐f]quinoxaline (MeIQx) has been linked to an elevated risk of invasive breast cancer in humans. Processed meat also has nitrates and nitrites, precursors of N‐nitroso compounds that have been linked to pancreatic cancer and liver DNA damage.

 

Acrylamide^6,7,8 Acrylamide is a carcinogen that is found in cigarettes, coffee, and many baked or fried foods, particularly breads, potato and corn products. Formed from asparagine and glucose (or fructose) during the Maillard reaction, acrylamide was discovered by Swiss scientists in 2002 who found that fried and baked foods contained it, while foods that had been boiled or unheated did not. This discovery caused enough concern that it led to the eventual formation of the Heat‐generated Food Toxicants.

 

AGEs^9,10: Advanced Glycation End products can be formed endogenously or absorbed from food. These compounds, which are glycosylated proteins, are formed in the process of heating and cooking. The mechanism by which AGEs induce damage is through a process called cross‐linking that causes intracellular damage and apoptosis. AGEs have been found to be associated with a series of diseases from allergy and Alzheimers to rheumatoid arthritis and urogenital disorders. Diabetics, in particular, are
known to have high amounts of AGEs in the blood serum due to their hyperglycemia.

 

Oxidized Unsaturated Oils^{11,12,13,14,15}: For years the popular belief has been that it is healthier to cook with unsaturated oils. More recent evidence, however, indicates that these fragile oils not only oxidize readily but also promote the damaging effects of substances such as HCAs. Both omega‐3 and omega‐6 fatty acids oxidize with heat and/or light. The reason is that the location of the pairs of double bonds (in relation to each other) provides an attractive target for an attack by a free radical. Omega‐3 fatty acids are the most susceptible, since they have the highest number of multiple double bonds. Ironically, many manufacturers are now adding flax seed to their cereals and breads as a "health benefit" and may actually be causing more harm than health. Olive oil, a monounsaturated oil, is more stable, but one study found that the oxidized content of olive oil more than doubled when tested past the expiration date.

 

Conclusion: Listed here are just some of the harmful substances in cooked foods. In the summary of the HEATOX project, the final report stated, "Lastly, as it is known that a great number of proven or suspected carcinogens, e.g. other Maillard reaction products, such as heterocyclic amines, furfural and furan derivatives together with lipid peroxidation products can be formed during heat treatment of food, it is important to further study the health risk associated with heat‐generated food toxicants." The ones that we have identified are only the tip of the iceberg. Further, we have not even begun to realize the extent that these compounds interact with other factors such as BPA, pesticides or environmental toxins.

 

http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/hidden-toxins-cooked-foods

 

 

none of these facts override the fact that raw meat is way more dangerous to human beings due to the bacterial & prion load in raw meat. I'd rather have AGEs in my body than die of e-coli. 

And all those raw pork eaters are not eating au-naturelle raw pork, they are eating raw pork that has been carefully bred to de-worm them. Otherwise, eat raw pork = get tape worm and die a slow death. 

 

None of these toxins are relevant to us, as we've been eating cooked food for as long as our species has existed and are quite adapted to deal with them, within daily recommended value of meat consumption. Which paleo-diet people overeat and are thus unhealthy at.

 

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

none of these facts override the fact that raw meat is way more dangerous to human beings due to the bacterial & prion load in raw meat. I'd rather have AGEs in my body than die of e-coli. 

And all those raw pork eaters are not eating au-naturelle raw pork, they are eating raw pork that has been carefully bred to de-worm them. Otherwise, eat raw pork = get tape worm and die a slow death. 

 

None of these toxins are relevant to us, as we've been eating cooked food for as long as our species has existed and are quite adapted to deal with them, within daily recommended value of meat consumption. Which paleo-diet people overeat and are thus unhealthy at.

Problem is  you are talking about theory that raw meat make people die, while I am talking with Practical proofs of people eating raw foods for decades and they are healthy. Japanese are eating the raw fish for centuries (when there were even no fridges) and they don't die of bacterias (even fish rot much faster than raw animal meat). African hunters tribes are eating the organ meats of wild animals for centuries,a nd they also don't die of it.

 

The difference between cooked and raw meat is not only the AGEs, but one is "healing" (which is my main issue), while other one is producing a lot of toxins in cooked form which is toxifying the bodies, and sooner or later one will get ill, especially if the present farm raised chickens are used. 

 

Any how, let us agree to disagree. 

 

A compromise:

 

People who are afraid to eat raw meats, they could use it in sun dried Jerky meat form. Red Americans eating Jerky meat for centuries without any problems.

 

Better than Jerky is Pemmican which is made with 50% sun dried Jerky (making powder out of jerky) and 45% animal fat (tallow) and 5% dried berries. This is a perfect food and people eating only pemmican for many months were diagnosed with no deficiencies. There are pemmicans which also have some dried liver and heart to it too.

This grass fed fat in Pemmicans solves the problem of overeating the proteins from meat. This animal fat is very satisfying and after small portions one feel no more hunger. The fat of bone marrow and brain is also super satisfying.  Paleo diet puts a lot of emphasis on animal fat consumption.  

 

Other compromise is to take the dessicated liver/glands capsules (which are approved by American Health Agency). 

 

Sushi in restaurants is not recommended, while it is usually made up of the farmed salmon fish. But if you find sushi of wild caught fish, then it is perfect.

 

All these foods heal (although not so much as fresh meat and organs). But they are generally accepted in the society as compared to the fresh meat. So, this is a compromise food towards good health.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

8 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Problem is  you are talking about theory that raw meat make people die, while I am talking with Practical proofs of people eating raw foods for decades and they are healthy. Japanese are eating the raw fish for centuries (when there were even no fridges) and they don't die of bacterias (even fish rot much faster than raw animal meat). African hunters tribes are eating the organ meats of wild animals for centuries,a nd they also don't die of it.

You are confusing the issue. 

It is not 'theory' that raw meat makes people die, its clinically proven that we cannot consume most types of meat raw and expect to live from the resulting infection/disease. 
I already said, we can eat most fish raw but cured (fish too have worms, which if you continue to eat raw, you will die). But we cannot eat most meat raw.

 

Your paleo 'raw diet' theory is 100% bullshit. The reason it is bullshit, is because except for 0.00001% of animals, humans have not consumed raw meat of others and lived. And the bulk majority of 'raw foods' we have today are cured foods, that our ancestors did not have.

Your stupid people who are eating raw organs and stuff- well that stuff is irradiated for contagens. Ie, it is not 'au natural raw', it has been specifically made safe due to technology. 

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The difference between cooked and raw meat is not only the AGEs, but one is "healing" (which is my main issue), while other one is producing a lot of toxins in cooked form which is toxifying the bodies, and sooner or later one will get ill, especially if the present farm raised chickens are used. 

Don't talk bullshit about healing. Provide scientific evidence or kindly shut up about your psychosomatic belief systems. 

 

 

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Any how, let us agree to disagree. 

 

A compromise:

 

People who are afraid to eat raw meats, they could use it in sun dried Jerky meat form. Red Americans eating Jerky meat for centuries without any problems.

Jerky can be done for only 0.0001% of animals. Because of contagens in raw meat. You *cannot* jerky a bear, eat it and expect to live for long. Those are medical facts. 

 

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Better than Jerky is Pemmican which is made with 50% sun dried Jerky (making powder out of jerky) and 45% animal fat (tallow) and 5% dried berries. This is a perfect food and people eating only pemmican for many months were diagnosed with no deficiencies. There are pemmicans which also have some dried liver and heart to it too.

This grass fed fat in Pemmicans solves the problem of overeating the proteins from meat. This animal fat is very satisfying and after small portions one feel no more hunger. The fat of bone marrow and brain is also super satisfying.  Paleo diet puts a lot of emphasis on animal fat consumption.  

Again, its 100% bullshit that grass fed fat solves the problem of over-eating proteins, as over-eating proteins ITSELF causes massive free-radical damage and eating most sources of raw red meat -even naturally procured, leads to cholesterol saturation. 

Paleo-diet is nothing more than a bullshit money-making scheme, like Atkins diet. 

 

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Other compromise is to take the dessicated liver/glands capsules (which are approved by American Health Agency). 

they are approved due to modern tech of irradiation. They are *not* approved to be eaten raw in field. 

 

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Sushi in restaurants is not recommended, while it is usually made up of the farmed salmon fish. But if you find sushi of wild caught fish, then it is perfect.

BS. Farm salmon is less nutritious than wild salmon, but most people are not as irresponsible about pushing a fad, where we are forced to eat a species in an unsustainable way to make them extinct. And then say 'oh well, not my problem, the world has too many people'. Your way is *NOT* the way if it doesnt fit the people of this world. Period. 

 

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All these foods heal (although not so much as fresh meat and organs). But they are generally accepted in the society as compared to the fresh meat. So, this is a compromise food towards good health.  

 

 

 

 

 

There is precisely 0% proof of this 'healing property' and 'cleansing diets' and all such nonsense. Fad-like superstitious money-making schemes. Nothing more. 

He is a hint: your body does not need 'detoxification via diet'. That is the job of your liver. And it detoxifies your body a million times better and more efficient than the hack-job psychosomatic 'feel good solutions' given by sellers of a bullshit scam idea.

 

 

1. Facts prove that we have been eating cooked meat for as long as our species have been around.

 

2. Facts prove that we are healthier by eating cooked meat than uncooked meat, except for very very few, rare scenarios of 4-6 animals on land, out of million+ types, that we can eat raw and not die. 

 

3. Paleo-diet  is peddling bullshit ideas with bullshit ideologies.

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

It is not 'theory' that raw meat makes people die, its clinically proven that we cannot consume most types of meat raw and expect to live from the resulting infection/disease. 

Clinical research have perhaps been done only upon the farm raised chickens. 

There are live proofs that people are consuming raw meats for decades and for centuries and they don't die of it. 

I could only say that any such claims by clinical research (if any) could never be considered correct.

 

Please understand that now it is my personal experience after which I need no more external witness, even if the whole world unite to say it is BS and bring 1000s of such clinical reports. 

 

 

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I already said, we can eat most fish raw but cured (fish too have worms, which if you continue to eat raw, you will die). But we cannot eat most meat raw.

The only "cure" which sushi undergoes is freezing the fish for short period. 

But I told you that Japanese have been eating all different types of fishes as Sushi for centuries, where there was no Fridge available, and fish got absolutely no cure. But still Japanese didn't died out of it. Contrary to it, they consider sushi for a very healthy diet. 

 

 

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Your paleo 'raw diet' theory is 100% bullshit. The reason it is bullshit, is because except for 0.00001% of animals, humans have not consumed raw meat of others and lived. And the bulk majority of 'raw foods' we have today are cured foods, that our ancestors did not have.

All kind of fishes and sea food is eaten raw.

All kind of cattle meat is eaten raw for centuries.

Wild birds in the wild (not captivity) is eaten raw. 

 

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Your stupid people who are eating raw organs and stuff- well that stuff is irradiated for contagens. Ie, it is not 'au natural raw', it has been specifically made safe due to technology. 

No, the food that we are eating (raw paleo community) is absolutely not irradiated. Actually we are totally against irradiation of food as it kills most of the live enzymes and vitamins. 

 

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Don't talk bullshit about healing. Provide scientific evidence or kindly shut up about your psychosomatic belief systems. 

I provided you the scientific reasons why raw  food (both meat and raw salads) are superior than the cooked food. 

You don't accept the witness of thousands of people who have gained first hand experience of healing through this diet. Fine. 

But again I am here with my personal experience. Even whole world now come and deny my personal experience, it is not going to work for me.

 

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Jerky can be done for only 0.0001% of animals. Because of contagens in raw meat. You *cannot* jerky a bear, eat it and expect to live for long. Those are medical facts. 

I don't know about the Bear meat, but why not to eat Beef Jerky? 

Red Indians have been eating Raw Beef Jerky (non irradiated and only sun dried) for centuries without being dead.

 

We were talking about the "compromise raw paleo diet". Then it is enough to have Beef Jerky, which is according to social norms in America and has been used for centuries. If you are convinced for all type of raw meats, then as compromise do limit yourself to Beef only. 

 

 

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Again, its 100% bullshit that grass fed fat solves the problem of over-eating proteins, as over-eating proteins ITSELF causes massive free-radical damage and eating most sources of raw meat -even naturally procured, leads to cholesterol saturation. 

It seem you misunderstood me. 

By eating animal fat (like in Pemmican), you become satisfied with little amount of food, which means you are not eating huge amount of animal protein. You are using calories from fat and not from the protein. 

Members of raw paleo community, who have been eating raw meat for decades, they share their blood reports regularly and they have OPTIMAL cholesterol and all other things also have optimal readings. 

 

 

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they are approved due to modern tech of irradiation. They are *not* approved to be eaten raw in field. 

Please bro, this claim from you is not True. The product itself stating clearly "Raw Liver" .

For example, see this Product at Amazon.com

 

https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Desiccated-Undefatted-Argentine-Supplements/dp/B00J47LEMS/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1511751040&sr=8-3&keywords=dessicated%2Bliver%2Bcapsules%2Bgrass%2Bfed&th=1

 

And in "About the Product" it is written:

//

About the product

• NUTRIENT DENSE: Perfect Desiccated and Undefatted beef liver has been dried into powder form for easier consumption, while maintaining its superfood status! An excellent source of iron, protein, B Vitamins, and the highest concentrated source of vitamin A found in nature.
• GRASS-FED: Obtained solely from healthy, 100% grass-fed cows. Our cows graze on fresh Argentine soil. Pasture raised cows are healthier and happier than grain-fed cows, giving you a healthier final product!
• LIVER BENEFITS IN CAPSULE FORM: Provides the benefits of raw grass-fed beef liver all in a convenient capsule! Real, raw liver benefits, with a much smaller dose of the taste, and none of the texture!
• RICH IN B VITAMINS: Beef Liver contains ALL of the B vitamins, which provide energy and stimulate the immune system. Liver is one of the most nutrient-dense foods in existence, and you can now consume it easily and efficiently with our capsules!
• MUSCLE-BUILDING: Perfect Dessicated Liver is an abundant source of high-quality protein (3 grams per serving!) and amino acids, which can help build strong muscles. Desiccated liver may also help improve fat metabolism!

//

 

 

 

And there are 475 Customers Reviews alone of this one product. 

All these Customers are Non Paleo (i.e. they are normal cooked food eaters and they have nothing to do with the raw paleo community). 

All theses 475 people are witnessing of the "Healing Effects" of this raw liver. 

 

 

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BS. Farm salmon is less nutritious than wild salmon, but most people are not as irresponsible about pushing a fad, where we are forced to eat a species in an unsustainable way to make them extinct. And then say 'oh well, not my problem, the world has too many people'. Your way is *NOT* the way if it doesnt fit the people of this world. Period.

It is impossible for me to address all the issues of the world. 

My simple aim to clarify about the  "Healing Foods". If a person is chronically ill and suffering from degenerative diseases, then this particular person has to go for the best quality available food as cure. 

 

Through this awareness, changes have already been seen where now we find a lot of 100% grass fed beef in the US super markets as compared to only commercially raised beef before, which was making the children ill as new antibiotics were not working for them as those children were eating the commercially raised meet which was full of antibiotics and hormones. 

 

For healthy life for the humankind and our children, we have to get rid of commercially raised meet (even cooked version) and return to organic and 100% grass fed meet. If we could not sustain it due to huge human population, then we have to think about reducing the population and not to reduce the quality of the food by introducing sick meat full of antibiotics and hormones. 

 

Quote

There is precisely 0% proof of this 'healing property' and 'cleansing diets' and all such nonsense. Fad-like superstitious money-making schemes. Nothing more.

 Please see the witnesses of cooked food eating customers about raw dried liver, if you don't accept the witness of raw paleo community. 

 

Quote

He is a hint: your body does not need 'detoxification via diet'. That is the job of your liver. And it detoxifies your body a million times better and more efficient than the hack-job psychosomatic 'feel good solutions' given by sellers of a bullshit scam idea.

Your live needs optimal nutrition in order to perform this job. 

From where does come this optimal nutrition? Indeed not from the commercially raised beef, and then cooking it which kills the living enzymes and vitamins and heat sensitive omega 3 and when free radicals become free due to the cooking process. 

 

Quote

1. Facts prove that we have been eating cooked meat for as long as our species have been around.

Yes, it seems to be true that we learnt using fire and may be cooking food. 

I have no answer to it, but this that I am witness to the healing effects of raw meat and organs. 

May be due to the usage of cooked food by human beings, we became so much physically weaker as compared to the other animals. 

(Please don't tell us that we became Humans by using cooked food, as this hypothesis has not been proved. The difference between Chimps and Humans developed perhaps while chimps ate little amount of ants, while Homo Erectus was hunter and ate tons of wild red meat along with brains and bone marrow)

[Alam_dar]

Please see this Video of Inuits who eat whole seal raw (including brain and eyes). They have been doing this for centuries and have not died out of it. 

 

 

 

And here Inuits eating raw liver and stomac content of caribou

 

 

And inuit are also eating their fishes raw for centuries. 

Although inuit has fire, but still they prefer eating their meat and fishes raw (especially the organ meat is always eaten raw). Only the bones with little meat is normally cooked. They say they do it while it is more healthy to eat them raw as compared to cooking. 

Perhaps our human ancestors too ate most of the meat raw, although they too know the use of fire for cooking. 

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Clinical research have perhaps been done only upon the farm raised chickens. 

This is case in point about your belief system. When challenged, you are coming up with excuses. I got a recommendation for you. if you actually care about the science behind this, get a Jstor account and i can send you links on them that CLEARLY prove, this has zero basis on farm raised or not raised. 

Farm raised or not raised has exactly 0% influence on what germ is a natural reservoir where. For e.g., Pigs are the natural reservoir of syphilis. This means pigs, wild boars, etc. Natural or not natural foods fed has 0% influence on whether your mucuous membrane carries E-Coli or Syphilis. 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

There are live proofs that people are consuming raw meats for decades and for centuries and they don't die of it. 

I could only say that any such claims by clinical research (if any) could never be considered correct.

These are not living proofs. These are living proofs of the MODERN IRRADIATED FOOD that has been made safe to eat raw. There is very little proof of people eating raw uncooked pork and not dying from tape-worms from it. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Please understand that now it is my personal experience after which I need no more external witness, even if the whole world unite to say it is BS and bring 1000s of such clinical reports. 

Personal experience means jack **** if you cannot accept the medical reality of placebo effect : if you believe in something, you will FEEL better doing it, whether it is true effect or not, is impossible to tell in individual case. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

The only "cure" which sushi undergoes is freezing the fish for short period. 

But I told you that Japanese have been eating all different types of fishes as Sushi for centuries, where there was no Fridge available, and fish got absolutely no cure. But still Japanese didn't died out of it. Contrary to it, they consider sushi for a very healthy diet. 

False. Sushi fish gets irradiated. ALL raw foods get irradiated. And as i said, fish are the ONLY type of animals we can eat a lot of, all kinds, without running a huge risk of dying. Not true for 99.99% of red meat varieties out there. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

All kind of fishes and sea food is eaten raw.

All kind of cattle meat is eaten raw for centuries.

Wild birds in the wild (not captivity) is eaten raw. 

Wild birds in captivity are *not* eaten raw unless they are irradiated. Nobody ate raw birds 50 years ago. Not one. 

Cattle meat proves my point, that except for special exceptions of five or six animals out there, out of MILLIONS of species, we cannot eat raw meat and expect to live. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

No, the food that we are eating (raw paleo community) is absolutely not irradiated. Actually we are totally against irradiation of food as it kills most of the live enzymes and vitamins. 

100% bullshit. Every single piece of raw meat you buy in the store is irradiated. It *HAS* to be. Just like you cannot buy unpasteurized milk. 
I don't care if it kills enzymes or vitamins. because it *DEFINITELY* kills bacteria and viruses that kill us from eating it. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I provided you the scientific reasons why raw  food (both meat and raw salads) are superior than the cooked food. 

No, you have not. You've only shown that raw food has less damaging chemicals to our bodies. Big deal. Our bodies are FAR more capable of dealing with toxins (that is why we have a liver) than it is in dealing with bacteria or viruses. A 1000 steaks with charred end bits wont necessarily give you cancer or any such illness. Just 1 piece of raw chicken with e-coli will straight up, kill you without modern medicine.

So you actually PROVED my point, that eating raw meat is way less safe than eating cooked meat. 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

You don't accept the witness of thousands of people who have gained first hand experience of healing through this diet. Fine. 

I accept no uncontrolled testimonials, given that placebo effect exists, depending on the field, between 5-50% of the cases. For all you know, half the people giving testimonials, including yourself, feel better because you've already convinced yourself it WILL feel better. That is what placebo effect means!!

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

But again I am here with my personal experience. Even whole world now come and deny my personal experience, it is not going to work for me.

Then you are one ignorant, arrogant idiot who has too much faith in your own uncontrolled experience, not counting the placebo effect (because hey its you- how can *YOU* be stupid enough to just feel a difference than believing - thats for 'other morons', not you, right?), over clinical trials by people a million times more qualified than you in said field. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I don't know about the Bear meat, but why not to eat Beef Jerky? 

Red Indians have been eating Raw Beef Jerky (non irradiated and only sun dried) for centuries without being dead.

And as i keep telling you, 5-6 species of land animals we can eat raw, without straight-up dying, proves the point that humans are mostly NOT meant to eat raw meat. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

We were talking about the "compromise raw paleo diet". Then it is enough to have Beef Jerky, which is according to social norms in America and has been used for centuries. If you are convinced for all type of raw meats, then as compromise do limit yourself to Beef only. 

And its the only meat i do eat raw, as i like my steak medium rare. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

It seem you misunderstood me. 

By eating animal fat (like in Pemmican), you become satisfied with little amount of food, which means you are not eating huge amount of animal protein. You are using calories from fat and not from the protein. 

Members of raw paleo community, who have been eating raw meat for decades, they share their blood reports regularly and they have OPTIMAL cholesterol and all other things also have optimal readings. 

This is ONLY true if they eat 20-30% of meat, by mass, per day on a long term basis. In my experience, most Paleo-eaters are nowhere close to that number and are way over the 50-60% by weight mark. because most paleo-diet people, like most fad-diet people, are morons and they think that 'size = mass'. They don't realize that eating 20-30% by MASS, for meat, means that typically it'd mean your chunk of beef or chicken is supposed to be 1/6th -1/8th the full plate, with 5/6th- 7/8th of your plate having NON meat products on it. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

It is impossible for me to address all the issues of the world. 

Nice cop out to the harm your philosophy is doing on the grand scale. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

My simple aim to clarify about the  "Healing Foods". If a person is chronically ill and suffering from degenerative diseases, then this particular person has to go for the best quality available food as cure. 

There is absolutely 0 scientific basis on this mythical idea of 'healing foods'. Its nothing more than a scam, preying on people like you, who believe in their placebo effect being real. Nothing more. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

For healthy life for the humankind and our children, we have to get rid of commercially raised meet (even cooked version) and return to organic and 100% grass fed meet. If we could not sustain it due to huge human population, then we have to think about reducing the population and not to reduce the quality of the food by introducing sick meat full of antibiotics and hormones. 

False. For healthy life of humankind AND for the food source to exist, we have to commercially raise meat. It is 100% irresponsible, to say that you will eat meat not industrially farmed, thus harvested in an unsustainable fashion, when it comes to 7.5 billion people.

Oh i forgot- your 'fad' is an elitist snake-oil fad that cannot work for all of humanity anyways. Which is why your fad loses out to one that works for mankind. 

Reducing quality of meat is achievable. Reducing human population has not been. So your solution, is irresponsible nonsense & selfish idiotic behaviour, nothing more. It is selfish idiotic behaviour, because by your way, the food source will LITERALLY collapse and die out and not be a food source for you anymore. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 Please see the witnesses of cooked food eating customers about raw dried liver, if you don't accept the witness of raw paleo community. 

I don't expect witness testimonials of unqualified people conducted in non-scientific means. As i said, science paper or i will keep calling your idea as bullshit. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Your live needs optimal nutrition in order to perform this job. 

From where does come this optimal nutrition? Indeed not from the commercially raised beef, and then cooking it which kills the living enzymes and vitamins and heat sensitive omega 3 and when free radicals become free due to the cooking process. 

Bullshit. Your liver can take a far bigger beating than your fad diet provides, which has been empirically proven. Your nutrition is *not* optimal, because it rests on false ideas of what our paleolithic ancestors ate. As i said, MOST of our paleolithic ancestors ate cooked meat. So that makes your fad, neither true, nor optimal. What is most optimal for us, is the behaviour we have evolved with. 

 

Also, free-radicals are MOSTLY produced in your small intestine, as a consequence of breaking down of amino-acids, aka proteins. 

 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Yes, it seems to be true that we learnt using fire and may be cooking food. 

I have no answer to it, but this that I am witness to the healing effects of raw meat and organs. 

You are witness to nothing more than placebo effect,without control mechanisms in your little experiment. 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

May be due to the usage of cooked food by human beings, we became so much physically weaker as compared to the other animals. 

We have no evidence whatsoever, that species homo sapiens was EVER stronger than we are currently. Our current batch of humans is, by objective, scientifically produced evidence, the apex of mankind's overall strength and physical fitness. Thanks to modern farming & nutrition methods. 

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

(Please don't tell us that we became Humans by using cooked food, as this hypothesis has not been proved. The difference between Chimps and Humans developed perhaps while chimps ate little amount of ants, while Homo Erectus was hunter and ate tons of wild red meat along with brains and bone marrow)

We definitely did not eat a lot of brains, otherwise we'd all be dead from mad cow disease and various other form of prion disease. This is why brains and spinal matter are usually NOT a big part of most traditional cuisines. 

The simple fact is, we've been cooking food for as long as we've existed. Ergo, its natural for us to cook food and its unnatural for us to eat raw meat, when we as a species have predominantly ate it in cooked form.

 

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Please see this Video of Inuits who eat whole seal raw (including brain and eyes). They have been doing this for centuries and have not died out of it. 

 

 

 

And here Inuits eating raw liver and stomac content of caribou

 

 

And inuit are also eating their fishes raw for centuries. 

Although inuit has fire, but still they prefer eating their meat and fishes raw (especially the organ meat is always eaten raw). Only the bones with little meat is normally cooked. They say they do it while it is more healthy to eat them raw as compared to cooking. 

Perhaps our human ancestors too ate most of the meat raw, although they too know the use of fire for cooking. 

Thats the most moronic statement ever.

Humans did not have ANY complex carbs access, that are high source of energy, till farming revolution. Ie, no wheat, rice, barley, oats, potato, yam, cassava, nothing.

So it means, before agriculture, we ate meats, fish, fruits, nuts and some leafy greens. 

Ask yourself, what requires cooking in that group of foods. The answer, is obvious. 

As well as the fact that ALL the neolithic & paleolithic campfire sites, show overwhelming evidence of cooked meat as the predominant and often SOLE cooked food. 

 

[Muloghonto]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation#cite_note-FMI-78

 

Here is your evidence. 
All pork, chicken, refrigerated red meat (which means ALL red meat that is sold in grocery stores) are irradiated in the US.

 

Sushi fish:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyregion/sushi-fresh-from-the-deep-the-deep-freeze.html

 

All sushi fish are first frozen to kill off the microbial contaminants and then thawed to eat raw. i.e., not 'truly raw' and thus not 'paleo' but very much  a consequence of modern technology.

 

[Alam_dar]

21 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation#cite_note-FMI-78

 

Here is your evidence. 
All pork, chicken, refrigerated red meat (which means ALL red meat that is sold in grocery stores) are irradiated in the US

 

Bro, please also watch for EU where it is not allowed to irradiate the red meats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation

In Austria, Germany, and many other countries of the European Union only dried herbs, spices, and seasonings can be processed with irradiation and only at a specific dose

 

Moreover, grass fed trend is super markets is in US is very new, but raw paleo members have been slaughtering their animals for decades and consuming it without any irradiation as they are strongly against it. Just see a member Derek here how he slaughters whole animal, then keep in simple refrigerator (without freezing) for dry ageing and eating whole animal. 

 

 

I could only tell you to go to the Paleo forum and ask this question to members there, and all will tell you they are consuming 100% non irradiated meat and organs for years. 

 

Quote

 

Sushi fish:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyregion/sushi-fresh-from-the-deep-the-deep-freeze.html

 

All sushi fish are first frozen to kill off the microbial contaminants and then thawed to eat raw. i.e., not 'truly raw' and thus not 'paleo' but very much  a consequence of modern technology.

 

I think I already made it clear that Japanese eating sushi for centuries when there were no refrigerators and it was not possible to freeze them. 

We paleo community members eating raw fish for years without freezing, while freezing and then thawing it decreases the taste and nutrition of fish meat. And believe me, the consumption of this non-irradiated and non-frozen meat/fish is a reality and not any placebo effect as you constantly claiming about us. 

 

I wish you would have discussed more about the inuit diet of raw meat, although having full access to fire. For sure they were also using non-irradiated raw food as they got no such equipment for all those centuries that they are living there and eating raw meat. 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Bro, please also watch for EU where it is not allowed to irradiate the red meats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation

In Austria, Germany, and many other countries of the European Union only dried herbs, spices, and seasonings can be processed with irradiation and only at a specific dose

 

 

https://www.food.gov.uk/science/irradfoodqa

 

As you can see, ALL poultry in EU is irradiated. Otherwise people will die because of following moronic advice like yours to eat raw chicken.

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Moreover, grass fed trend is super markets is in US is very new, but raw paleo members have been slaughtering their animals for decades and consuming it without any irradiation as they are strongly against it. Just see a member Derek here how he slaughters whole animal, then keep in simple refrigerator (without freezing) for dry ageing and eating whole animal. 

I don't believe crackpots over youtube, sorry. i too can claim to eat raw meat for clicks and hits, doesnt make it true.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I could only tell you to go to the Paleo forum and ask this question to members there, and all will tell you they are consuming 100% non irradiated meat and organs for years. 

Why should i go to no-name jokers for biological information and not to scientists themselves ? 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I think I already made it clear that Japanese eating sushi for centuries when there were no refrigerators and it was not possible to freeze them. 

Japanese only ate a FEW fish for centuries raw, mostly Tuna. One of the FEW fish that doesn't come with worms. 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

We paleo community members eating raw fish for years without freezing, while freezing and then thawing it decreases the taste and nutrition of fish meat. And believe me, the consumption of this non-irradiated and non-frozen meat/fish is a reality and not any placebo effect as you constantly claiming about us. 

It is nothing more than placebo effect, fi you have not engaged scientifically valid controls to ensure it is not. 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

I wish you would have discussed more about the inuit diet of raw meat, although having full access to fire. For sure they were also using non-irradiated raw food as they got no such equipment for all those centuries that they are living there and eating raw meat. 

 

As i said and you keep averting the issue : we CANNOT eat 99.999% of land animals raw and not die. We cannot eat birds raw (without irradiation) and live. Thats THOUSANDS of species, right there. 

Inuits eat seal, walrus and a few types of fish ? Masai eat raw cattle ? So what ? its just a handful of species, meaning 99.99% of species, on land, are inedible without serious health consequences, unless cooked.

 

[coffee_rules]

All the posts here will convince people to become veg. 

[Alam_dar]

10 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

https://www.food.gov.uk/science/irradfoodqa

 

As you can see, ALL poultry in EU is irradiated. Otherwise people will die because of following moronic advice like yours to eat raw chicken.

The link is about UK and not the EU. 

I already provided the link about EU which does not allow irradiated raw meat. 

Also in UK, it is only "recommended" and not a "must". Statement from your provided link is: " In the UK there are seven categories of food which may be irradiated. "

 

 

Quote

I don't believe crackpots over youtube, sorry. i too can claim to eat raw meat for clicks and hits, doesnt make it true.

Brother, in this case my request would be to please do your own research about the Inuit Diet. There are tons of books and websites and even scientific studies about their diet. For example:

///

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_cuisine

(Raw Meat)

 When a seal is brought home, the hunters quickly gather around it to receive their pieces of (raw) meat first. This happens because the hunters are the coldest and hungriest among the camp and need the warm seal blood and meat to warm them.^[33] The seal is cut in a specific way directly after a hunt. Borré explains the cutting of the seal is this way "one of the hunters slits the abdomen laterally, exposing the internal organs. Hunters first eat pieces of liver or they use a tea cup to gather some blood to drink."^[33] At this time, hunters may also chop up pieces of fat and the brain to mix together and eat with meat.^[33]

Women and children are accustomed to eating different parts of the seal because they wait until the hunters are done eating. Intestines are the first thing to be chosen and then any leftover pieces of the liver are consumed.^[33] Finally, ribs and backbone are eaten and any remaining meat is distributed among the camp.^[33]

 

Perceived benefits and beliefs of the diet[edit source]

The Inuit believe that their diet has many benefits over the western Qallunaat food. They are adamant about proving that their diet will make one stronger, warmer, and full of energy.

One example is the drinking of seal blood. When interviewing an Inuit elder, Searles was told that "Inuit food generates a strong flow of blood, a condition considered to be healthy and indicative of a strong body."^[1] After the consumption of seal blood and meat, one could look at their veins in the wrist for proof of the strength that Inuit food provides.^[1] Borré states that "seal blood is seen as fortifying human blood by replacing depleted nutrients and rejuvenating the blood supply, it is considered a necessary part of the Inuit diet."^[33]

Inuit also believe that eating raw meat keeps them warmer and stronger.^[35] They say that raw meat takes effect on one's body when eaten consistently.^[35]

 

Healing beliefs[edit source]

Borré tells of a time when she saw an Inuit woman fall ill who blamed her sickness on the lack of seal in her diet. Once receiving seal meat, the woman felt better within hours and said that her quick recovery was due to the consumption of seal meat and blood. Borré experienced this many times among many different members of the group and they all attributed their sickness to the lack of Inuit food.^[33]

 

(No Food Poisoning due to high intake of Protein)

Traditional Inuit diets derive approximately 50% of their calories from fat, 30–35% from protein and 15–20% of their calories from carbohydrates, largely in the form of glycogen from the raw meat they consumed.^[22][23] This high fat content provides valuable energy and prevents protein poisoning,

///

 

It seems that Inuit and Raw Paleo Community have a lot in common. 

 

Inuit learnt hard way that in the harsher conditions, they have to eat Meat in raw form in order to survive. This survival is not possible through the cooked food. This is the experience of many centuries of Inuit history. 

 

Inuit firmly belief in the "Healing Power" of their raw meat food. You may once again deny it in name of placebo, but brother I believe that I am rational enough to differentiate between placebo and the reality when it comes to observing my own body. 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

16 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

All the posts here will convince people to become veg. 

Yes brother, the "Cultural Difference" between Vegetarian Diet of India and Raw Paleo Community is extremely huge.

 

Even the more open Western societies (which has less to do with the religion) could also not tolerate well the difference of normal cooked meat eating and the raw meat eating. 

 

But gradually the things are going towards better situation.

 

Firstly the Western world accepted the Sushi (raw fish) eating. 

 

Then they are getting familiar with raw meat eating practices too through introduction to the Inuit diet, African tribes diet, Steak Tatare which already consumed in many European Countries (especially France), Ossenworst (the raw Dutch sausage), Met (Germany, which is made from raw Pork meat), and many others (link). 

 

Also the awareness is growing about the quality of food (i.e. usage of 100% grass fed meat, grass fed chicken, eggs of grass fed chickens, raw milk from grass fed cows, raw milk butter, raw milk cheese ...)

 

 

Vegetarian Culture (India vs West) :

Even as Vegetarian, things are moving towards better situation in Europe and the West. 

Western world now know the importance of "Organic Vegetables". Even the super markets have started having the Organic Vegetables and breads.

 

India seems to be far behind the Western world  at moment about the awareness of the quality of the vegetables in organic form. Gene Manipulated vegetables with lot of chemical fertilizers are coming in the Indian Markets. Such vegetables grow very big in record time, but they lack the nutrition. 

 

In Europe, you also have access to many different kinds of green Salads. In India, there is normally one type of green salad available. Recently iceberg lettuce has also entered the Indian markets. Nevertheless, it is still not enough and more green lettuce salads are needed. 

 

Also in Europe/US, one has very easy access to the fresh green wild herbs (dandelions, nettltes etc.). There is less awareness about using them, but they also have amazing healing powers, much much better than any farm grown vegetable. I think in India nobody is using them. 

 

Raw Milk also has much more benefits over the pasteurized milk. One could buy raw milk cheese and even raw milk butter in the West. 

 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

14 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

The link is about UK and not the EU. 

I already provided the link about EU which does not allow irradiated raw meat. 

Also in UK, it is only "recommended" and not a "must". Statement from your provided link is: " In the UK there are seven categories of food which may be irradiated. "

 

 

Brother, in this case my request would be to please do your own research about the Inuit Diet. There are tons of books and websites and even scientific studies about their diet. For example:

///

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_cuisine

(Raw Meat)

 When a seal is brought home, the hunters quickly gather around it to receive their pieces of (raw) meat first. This happens because the hunters are the coldest and hungriest among the camp and need the warm seal blood and meat to warm them.^[33] The seal is cut in a specific way directly after a hunt. Borré explains the cutting of the seal is this way "one of the hunters slits the abdomen laterally, exposing the internal organs. Hunters first eat pieces of liver or they use a tea cup to gather some blood to drink."^[33] At this time, hunters may also chop up pieces of fat and the brain to mix together and eat with meat.^[33]

Women and children are accustomed to eating different parts of the seal because they wait until the hunters are done eating. Intestines are the first thing to be chosen and then any leftover pieces of the liver are consumed.^[33] Finally, ribs and backbone are eaten and any remaining meat is distributed among the camp.^[33]

 

Perceived benefits and beliefs of the diet[edit source]

The Inuit believe that their diet has many benefits over the western Qallunaat food. They are adamant about proving that their diet will make one stronger, warmer, and full of energy.

One example is the drinking of seal blood. When interviewing an Inuit elder, Searles was told that "Inuit food generates a strong flow of blood, a condition considered to be healthy and indicative of a strong body."^[1] After the consumption of seal blood and meat, one could look at their veins in the wrist for proof of the strength that Inuit food provides.^[1] Borré states that "seal blood is seen as fortifying human blood by replacing depleted nutrients and rejuvenating the blood supply, it is considered a necessary part of the Inuit diet."^[33]

Inuit also believe that eating raw meat keeps them warmer and stronger.^[35] They say that raw meat takes effect on one's body when eaten consistently.^[35]

 

Healing beliefs[edit source]

Borré tells of a time when she saw an Inuit woman fall ill who blamed her sickness on the lack of seal in her diet. Once receiving seal meat, the woman felt better within hours and said that her quick recovery was due to the consumption of seal meat and blood. Borré experienced this many times among many different members of the group and they all attributed their sickness to the lack of Inuit food.^[33]

 

(No Food Poisoning due to high intake of Protein)

Traditional Inuit diets derive approximately 50% of their calories from fat, 30–35% from protein and 15–20% of their calories from carbohydrates, largely in the form of glycogen from the raw meat they consumed.^[22][23] This high fat content provides valuable energy and prevents protein poisoning,

///

 

It seems that Inuit and Raw Paleo Community have a lot in common. 

 

Inuit learnt hard way that in the harsher conditions, they have to eat Meat in raw form in order to survive. This survival is not possible through the cooked food. This is the experience of many centuries of Inuit history. 

http://www.eatright.org/resource/homefoodsafety/safety-tips/food/is-raw-seafood-safe-to-eat

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-39882381

http://www.seafoodhealthfacts.org/seafood-safety/general-information-patients-and-consumers/seafood-safety-topics/parasites

 

As i said, your bullshit theories hold ZERO credibility in face of medical personnel. Eating raw fish is dangerous behaviour. Medically proven. 

 

Quote

Inuit firmly belief in the "Healing Power" of their raw meat food. You may once again deny it in name of placebo, but brother I believe that I am rational enough to differentiate between placebo and the reality when it comes to observing my own body. 

 

 

I don't give a damn about belief system, especially psychosomatic bullshit belief systems. 

And no,you are *NOT* rational enough to pass off your experience as control experiment, without putting those controls in place. Human beings have ego, meaning they are predisposed to agree with their conclusions over criticizing them, inherently.

 

 

All you Paleo-idiots are engaging in, is a feel-good enterprise, where you feel good because of the thrill of being different, while ACTUALLY engaging in irresponsible, dangerous and counter-evolutionary behaviour of our species.

 

A BIG clue to our evolutionary trend, is how we salivate. People salivate at the aroma of cooked food. Why ? Because we EVOLVED with cooking. People find raw meat/raw blood revolting/disgusting. Why ? Because we EVOLVED to predominantly not eat our meat raw. 

These responses are seen in toddlers, so you can take your 'social conditioning' BS ideas out right away.

 

And i can bet money that you are probably amongst the crowd of idiots who thinks GMO plants are 'unsafe', despite science proving that GMO plants are : a) safe and b) no different than 'naturally selected GMO-ed plants done by our ancestors'.

 

Take your bullshit 'healing' crap elsewhere. Its as bullshit as palmistry and other scam ideas.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Muloghonto

[maniac]

Forget all this spirituality, religious and animal rights bs....simple a vegetarian lifestyle is a healthy choice.

 

Now sure there are a lot of unhealthy ways you can eat vegetarian dishes as well.

 

However I call bs on people saying that you need meat to be athletic etc because there are plenty of ways to get protein from veggie dishes eg,daal etc.

 

There is a reason why prostate health after 40 is a big deal in the West compared to India because red meat fks up your intenstines.

 

I would say apples to apples vegetarian diet is healthier than non vegetarian diet....I say apples to apples because obviously if you show me a vegetarian who consumes 4-5 ghee parathas and 10 gulab jamuns vs a guy who eats maybe salmon and grilled chicken in small quantities obviously the comparison won’t work.

 

but if you have the same benchmark  in healthy and unhealthy between  veg and non veg...Sure a vegetarian diet would be considered healthier.

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

As i said, your bullshit theories hold ZERO credibility in face of medical personnel.

I don't  think this is a "Theory" when Inuit are practically eating meat and fis in raw form for their healing effects for thousands of years. 

 

Quote

 

Eating raw fish is dangerous behaviour. Medically proven. 

http://www.eatright.org/resource/homefoodsafety/safety-tips/food/is-raw-seafood-safe-to-eat

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-39882381

http://www.seafoodhealthfacts.org/seafood-safety/general-information-patients-and-consumers/seafood-safety-topics/parasites

 

 

I have taken time to read all 3 links that you provided above.

 

First link says it is "no more" suitable to eat fish while we have now mercury in the fish. 

Please note that "cooking" or "raw" has no effect on the mercury found in the fish. In this case, one has to become a Veg and leave the fish aside. 

 

Nevertheless, it is proved that small fishes could be eaten unlimited without the effects of mercury. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_in_fish

 

 

Your 2nd link is about BBC which is talking about 1 patient who got sick due to sushi. Not a big deal as it could happen with any food. One has to used good quality and fresh food therefore. 

 

Your 3rd link proposes some simple techniques in order to reduce the risk. Please note some important things though from your own provided link:

//

http://www.seafoodhealthfacts.org/seafood-safety/general-information-patients-and-consumers/seafood-safety-topics/parasites

 

Parasites are as common in fish as insects are in fruits and vegetables ....

The health risk from parasites is far less than the risk from “unseen” illness causing bacteria which are present in almost all foods ...

When preparing these products, use commercially frozen fish ...

Most of these parasites cannot adapt to human hosts. Often, if an infected fish is eaten, the parasites may be digested with no ill effects. Adequate freezing or cooking fish will kill any parasites that may be present.

//

 

So a simple technique (of freezing the raw fish) will take care of all the hype that has been made that raw  fish is dangerous. 

 

Whole Europe (Germany, Finland, Norway, Holland ...) eat "Matjes Herring" which is only frozen and now approved by all European countries. In the earlier centuries, when there was no freezers, they ate this raw fish without freezing. 

 

Paleo community has nothing against it if any one want to use the frozen fish. 

Doctors suggest normally that "weak" people avoid eating the raw fish. While on Paleo diet, people become healthy enough to eat and handle the raw fish easily even it is not frozen (like the Inuit and the Japanese did it for centuries). Anyhow, if any one want to take the precaution, then we have nothing against it. 

 

I hope with this we close the chapter of raw fish being dangerous, while freezing raw fish takes care of it. 

 

Quote

I don't give a damn about belief system, especially psychosomatic bullshit belief systems.

It is no more a belief system in my view. Belief is that there are ghosts, or gods, or angels etc. 

 

But if millions of people are experiencing the benefits and healing effects for thousands of years, then it is a fact. 

 

All the old Ayurveda Medicine, all the traditional medicine in the world is based upon these experiences of thousands of years and they are the facts and not only the placebo. 

 

Quote

And no,you are *NOT* rational enough to pass off your experience as control experiment, without putting those controls in place. Human beings have ego, meaning they are predisposed to agree with their conclusions over criticizing them, inherently.

Not only millions of people of the past, but even in these modern times, if Amazon.Com  and Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.de and all the medical stores of Europe are selling the Law liver Capsules, and thousands of people testifying their healing effects, then it is not a placebo alone, nor it would be wise to blame all of them for being "non rational" and full of ego etc. 

 

Quote

A BIG clue to our evolutionary trend, is how we salivate. People salivate at the aroma of cooked food. Why ? Because we EVOLVED with cooking. People find raw meat/raw blood revolting/disgusting. Why ? Because we EVOLVED to predominantly not eat our meat raw. 

Welcome to the paleo community. After some time on raw paleo diet, you will salivate when you see the raw meat. 

 

Once again, Inuit had full access to fire for centuries, but they still prefer to eat their meat raw over that cooked meat that you believe to be tasty. 

Why?

Are all of them "non rational"?

Are all of them full of ego?

 

I don't know how you reply, but I simply tell you it is due to the reason that they have experienced the healing effects and they have the taste of raw meat. 

 

Quote

And i can bet money that you are probably amongst the crowd of idiots who thinks GMO plants are 'unsafe', despite science proving that GMO plants are : a) safe and b) no different than 'naturally selected GMO-ed plants done by our ancestors'.

 

Yes I firmly believe that gene manipulated farm grown non organic vegetables could not compete with the organic grown vegetables or the wild herbs when it comes to the nutrition in them. 

Gene manipulated vegetables become "Big" in short period of time, with little amount of sun light. While organic grown and wild vegetables take their full time to get the minerals and vitamins from the soil. They are small, but packed with lot of nutritions. 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Forget all this spirituality, religious and animal rights bs....simple a vegetarian lifestyle is a healthy choice.

 

Now sure there are a lot of unhealthy ways you can eat vegetarian dishes as well.

 

However I call bs on people saying that you need meat to be athletic etc because there are plenty of ways to get protein from veggie dishes eg,daal etc.

 

There is a reason why prostate health after 40 is a big deal in the West compared to India because red meat fks up your intenstines.

 

I would say apples to apples vegetarian diet is healthier than non vegetarian diet....I say apples to apples because obviously if you show me a vegetarian who consumes 4-5 ghee parathas and 10 gulab jamuns vs a guy who eats maybe salmon and grilled chicken in small quantities obviously the comparison won’t work.

 

but if you have the same benchmark  in healthy and unhealthy between  veg and non veg...Sure a vegetarian diet would be considered healthier.

I have tried:

 

(1) Cooked Meat diet

(2) I divorced meat and I was vegetarian (cooked) for long period of time. 

Result: No healing effects

 

(3) I discovered "raw Vegetarian diet" with lot of green Salat leaves and green wild herbs and some fruit and raw coconut oil. 

Result: Healing started, but still limited. Especially wild green herbs (dandelion, nettles etc) are great. 

But still there was something missing and I didn't get the satisfaction feeling. 

 

(4) Raw Paleo diet: It consists of raw meat, raw fish, raw green wild herbs and green leaves of lettuce.

Nothing comes close to raw organ meat and raw fish when it comes to the healing effects. 

Wonderful feeling of satisfaction. 

Wonderful sleep. 

My personality changed. I started loving my family much more than before. I got much deeper connection with with my kids. For me, these true love sensations were the spirituality.

A feeling of cleanness of body (detoxified body). 

A feeling of cleanness of mind and soul. 

 

I don't ask any one to "believe" me.

I don't ask any one to "believe" the Inuits

I don't ask any one to "believe" in "ANYONE"

 

I ask only this:

Be open minded to all new things

Read first and then Experience it yourself for short periods of time (couple of days to few weeks)

 

If religious beliefs are not a problem, then one could do it very "safely" in the beginning. For example, one could eat  "Jerky" or "Pemmican" for couple of days with green leaves of Salads. It is tasty and there would be no problems culturally too. One could drink raw milk with raw butter and raw cheese. Although it is not enough (while real healing comes from raw organ meat and fishes) but still it would be enough to feel the changes. 

 

Prostate problems or other such diseases do not occur while eating grass fed raw meat and fish. Actually all diseases and pains start to disappear automatically. Increase in stamina and you will not feel tired. 

 

It is impossible to get even near to these healing effects on the standard vegetable diet. The vegetables what we cook today, they even didn't exist 10,000 years ago. Earlier, there existed no bread, no rice, no beans etc. We, the Homo species, we were hunter-gatherers for millions of years. 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

I don't  think this is a "Theory" when Inuit are practically eating meat and fis in raw form for their healing effects for thousands of years. 

The so-called 'healing effect'  is a mumbo-jumbo bullshit theory. Show us medical evidence of WHAT is healed due to eating it. Show us the active chemical, change in health that is physically observed. If you can't, its just bullshit. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I have taken time to read all 3 links that you provided above.

 

First link says it is "no more" suitable to eat fish while we have now mercury in the fish. 

Please note that "cooking" or "raw" has no effect on the mercury found in the fish. In this case, one has to become a Veg and leave the fish aside. 

Did you miss the part where it talks about the parasites present in RAW fish and clams. Don't say thats due to farming- it makes no mention of it.

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Nevertheless, it is proved that small fishes could be eaten unlimited without the effects of mercury. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_in_fish

Your 2nd link is about BBC which is talking about 1 patient who got sick due to sushi. Not a big deal as it could happen with any food. One has to used good quality and fresh food therefore. 

 

Your 3rd link proposes some simple techniques in order to reduce the risk. Please note some important things though from your own provided link:

//

http://www.seafoodhealthfacts.org/seafood-safety/general-information-patients-and-consumers/seafood-safety-topics/parasites

 

Parasites are as common in fish as insects are in fruits and vegetables ....

The health risk from parasites is far less than the risk from “unseen” illness causing bacteria which are present in almost all foods ...

When preparing these products, use commercially frozen fish ...

Most of these parasites cannot adapt to human hosts. Often, if an infected fish is eaten, the parasites may be digested with no ill effects. Adequate freezing or cooking fish will kill any parasites that may be present.

//

 

So a simple technique (of freezing the raw fish) will take care of all the hype that has been made that raw  fish is dangerous. 

So if freezing raw fish is the simple technique to do it, unless you are an Inuit, this technique is *not* valid as Paleo-diet, as your paleo-ancestors from ANYWHERE in the world, except polar, artic circle areas, do not have access to freezing their food year round.

Hence i prove, this Paleo-diet fad, is 100% bullshit. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Whole Europe (Germany, Finland, Norway, Holland ...) eat "Matjes Herring" which is only frozen and now approved by all European countries. In the earlier centuries, when there was no freezers, they ate this raw fish without freezing. 

In earier centuries, they ate it around winter, where they COULD freeze the fish. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Paleo community has nothing against it if any one want to use the frozen fish. 

Then it is not paleo-diet. Its disingenuous to call paleo-diet for something that is not available in the paleolithic age for vast majority of humans. All the humans who've ever lived in the tropical zone- every single one of them- did not have access to freezing. Hence it is not paleo-diet. 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Doctors suggest normally that "weak" people avoid eating the raw fish. While on Paleo diet, people become healthy enough to eat and handle the raw fish easily even it is not frozen (like the Inuit and the Japanese did it for centuries). Anyhow, if any one want to take the precaution, then we have nothing against it. 

Healthy claim of the so-called Paleo-diet is unsubstantiated, bullshit claim thats not verified by a SINGLE scientific paper. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

I hope with this we close the chapter of raw fish being dangerous, while freezing raw fish takes care of it. 

 

It is no more a belief system in my view. Belief is that there are ghosts, or gods, or angels etc. 

It is 100% a belief system, unless you can provide the scientific paper on the healing effects. I can provide scientific paper on exactly how Tylenol heals and exactly what it heals. Show us that evidence for raw meats. If you cannot, its just a bunch of idiots passing off their 'feel good psychosomatic ideas' as fact. Just like religion. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

But if millions of people are experiencing the benefits and healing effects for thousands of years, then it is a fact. 

It is *not* millions of people, as many of those people died of worm infestation from eating raw foods. We have church birth & death registry records stretching back 1000 years in Europe. Guess what ? the deaths caused by parasitic infections & worms is often recorded, as these worms end up leaving your body between the time of death and time of burial. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

All the old Ayurveda Medicine, all the traditional medicine in the world is based upon these experiences of thousands of years and they are the facts and not only the placebo. 

Some of them are not placebo, as some of them have been scientifically verified. Most of them is placebo, as no chemical change has been observed in those bullshit remedies. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Not only millions of people of the past, but even in these modern times, if Amazon.Com  and Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.de and all the medical stores of Europe are selling the Law liver Capsules, and thousands of people testifying their healing effects, then it is not a placebo alone, nor it would be wise to blame all of them for being "non rational" and full of ego etc. 

Testifying from millions of people is as valid as testimonials from millions of religious people who have 'physical healing effects from communion with God'. That is the entire basis of the Pentecostal church. As your posts prove, people can believe any number of bullshit and even feel good, based on their mental state (placebo effect). Give us empiric proof, because if it does heal, then you should be able to find the active compound that DOES heal and note its healing power. Yet, you have big fat zero in that regard. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Welcome to the paleo community. After some time on raw paleo diet, you will salivate when you see the raw meat. 

Yes, thats called habituation. Yet, when you hold out a cooked piece of meat in front of a toddler vs raw meat, toddler goes for cooked meat. Showing us that cooked meat is what we are 'hardwired' to eat but it is not an unchangeable hardwiring and you can habituate yourself to like raw meat. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Once again, Inuit had full access to fire for centuries, but they still prefer to eat their meat raw over that cooked meat that you believe to be tasty. 
 

Why?

Are all of them "non rational"?

Are all of them full of ego?

Inuit do *not* have access to fire easily. That is why. Yes, they can make fire. But if anyone has ever visited traditional inuit communities, fire is sacred and held ONLY for ceremonial purposes. Why ? Because the arctic circle has ZERO trees and lichens & fern do not burn easy (or create a flame).Hence for them, wood is a precious commodity, like a processed good, like minerals, diamonds, gold, cotton etc. 
This is why they do not cook with fires. Because they do not have easy access to fires. DUH!

And facts prove, that Inuit life expectancy, prior to modern medicine, is less than that of the standard European life expectancy. Proves that Inuit diet is bullshit and harmful if they end up dying sooner. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I don't know how you reply, but I simply tell you it is due to the reason that they have experienced the healing effects and they have the taste of raw meat. 

They have experienced the placebo effect. Nothing more. Show us evidence and if you cannot, it is simple placebo effect of saying something is good for u and 'feeling good' after eating it. Placebo effect affects anywhere between 5-50% case studies. Meaning up to 3.5 billion people can have placebo effect, if entire humanity is investigated. Without control, your conclusions are unscientific, un-factual, purely anecdotal bullshit. 

 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Yes I firmly believe that gene manipulated farm grown non organic vegetables could not compete with the organic grown vegetables or the wild herbs when it comes to the nutrition in them. 

Gene manipulated vegetables become "Big" in short period of time, with little amount of sun light. While organic grown and wild vegetables take their full time to get the minerals and vitamins from the soil. They are small, but packed with lot of nutritions. 

Then you are 100% an idiot. 
Gene manipulated vegetables are exactly the same as organic vegetables that have been 'gene manipulated' through the centuries.

This is why you CANNOT eat wild corn but can eat the corn we do. Or wild potato but eat the potato we do. Only difference is, thanks to genetic engineering, we can gene manipulate the desired result (larger yield, quicker maturation times, pest resistance etc) in a single month in a lab, which took our ancestors thousands and thousands of years to do, due to primitive, selective breeding practices.

 

This is pretty easily evidenced by the scientific papers on GMO foods. Now i expect you to bring up conspiracy theories of 'bullshit scientists that are on payroll of Soylent Green' and stuff. Too bad, because i am an educated engineer and i have an account on Jstor. Meaning, i have these actual scientific studies and data on my fingertips (too bad its a paid site, so i cannot link it to you here) and i don't need a crackpot unqualified idiot (thats what the anti-GMO crowd are) telling me what is scientifically valid and what is fudged, once i have the paper in hand.