Better captain: Ganguly or Dhoni?

[mancalledsting]

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

@Trichromatic Peak UV and peak Dhoni entered the picture only after 2005, Gangu's team didn't have many matchwinners. Even SRT wasn't a matchwinner (unlike 90s) in that period because of tennis elbow and dip in form. I agree his record is atrocious in the finals even taking into account the fact that we played some very good teams then. But since when have we cared about Kitply and Hajmola Cups over CT/WC? In 2000, 2002 and 2003 he delivered our best 3 consecutive ICC runs and that is good enough for me. Dhoni did zilch in WCs/WT20s/CT except that 2011 F, yet was rescued time and again by much better, more clutch players than him. Gangu didn't have that luxury. In tests there is no comparison and finally Gangu left the team in much better shape while Dhoni destroyed the future of Indian cricket and cost us min 2 years time in rebuilding, in ODIs it has taken a turn for the worse under the inept Kohli. 

LMAO @ Hajmola cup final....too good 

 

don't forget the prestigious Compaq Cup....just like World Series Cricket, participants have said it was some of the toughest cricket they ever played

Edited January 3, 2018 by mancalledsting

[Trichromatic]

@speedheat @Gollum @Ankit_sharma03

 

Series records for Indian team

Under Azhar

Series played: 43

Series won: 20

Drawn: 3

Lost: 20

 

Uder Ganguly

Series played: 32

Series won: 8

Shared: 2

 

10 out 32 

 

Under Dhoni:

Series played: 43

Won : 24

Lost 19

[speedheat]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Please stop giving credit to alone yuvi and if u give credit to yuvi was 2011 Wc well dhoni deserves credit for backing him, he was constantly dropped before that 2011 and dhoni backed him. 

 

Rp, irfan performed almost in every game apart from 1-2, yuvi only in 2 games

Dhoni was a piss poor captain, he was spot on with his captaincy and if u win with that young team well u have to do something write. 

 

There have been many gr8 captains in past who have been succesful despite not performing. 

 

Dhoni cups are enough to prove it , 

 

Go ahead make a thread regd bhajji as odi bowler and get ur answer why are u scared.....go ahead 

 

Accumen- hahahaha....yea coming from u who still hasnt recovered from the embarssment CSK quota points

  1) only an idiot won't back player of uvs caliber,  lol what special thing dhoni did in it by backing him??? I won't call u dhoni chamcha coz u agreed certain things but complicating things now.

I GIVE CREDIT TO EVERY ONE FROM RP SINGH TO INDIAN COOK,on that 2007 WC winning team, but no dhoni as he was piss poor in that wc

2) that team was not young sehwag,gamby,UV,rp,sree,bhajji were fairly experienced.

3) Dhoni cups only shows how he steal spotlight from others, he haven't done any special thing which any other captain wouldn't have done that's a fact, if u bring those trophies in debate then let me tel u we lost 5t20 WC, only captain to lose a series against Bangladesh, embarrassing ane do series loss, all this says something too and the reason why he was thrown out of captaincy

4. No need to create thread on bhajji 

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerOpponents_ODI.asp?PlayerID=2138#bowl

This embarrassing stats are enough to judge him. Lol bhajji better than jaddu n ash  that's laughable

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

in 96 difference was fixing. bowling first on that pitch was the worst decision ever taken by a captain and cant be without fixing.

cant say until its proven, even if 10% chance it wasnt still a big thing to say 

One of the explanation was how SL whacked them in league game while chasing, which makes sense

 

In 2003, m sure somewere in ganguly mind it wud have been there how Aus bundled them while batting 1st in league game . He did point out at toss the wkt was a bit damp. Yesterday i was listening to one of his interview he was one saying if ur unsure about wkt bat 1st

 

some times fear affect a decision   

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

@speedheat @Gollum @Ankit_sharma03

 

Series records for Indian team

Under Azhar

Series played: 43

Series won: 20

Drawn: 3

Lost: 20

 

Uder Ganguly

Series played: 32

Series won: 8

Shared: 2

 

10 out 32 

 

Under Dhoni:

Series played: 43

Won : 24

Lost 19

Azhar record is quite surprising, cant say much as i started understanding cricket better post 1999-2000

Was it all home series or some away to specially outside subcontinent ??

[mancalledsting]

2 hours ago, speedheat said:

Months ago during IPL that slickr argued with me and called himself as neutral fan, and here he is openly doing dhoni chamcha girri  

all Dhoni fans pretend to be neutral and not supporting CSK, its the only way they can cope with the cognitive dissonance 

[mancalledsting]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

A lot is due to his calmnes

Dhoni was far calmer in final and even azahr, ganguly was anxious and i see same problem in kohli which explains RCB record to

In comparison rohit, warner, gamhir all also looked cool in finals 

 

Finals are mostly about pressure, Pak no matter how the team was sarfraz looked calm n under control 

Yaar Kohli was India's best batsmen in CT2013 final and WT20 final in 2014 and WT20 QF, SF 2016. He also as a rookie made a solid contribution in WC 2011 Final. 

[mancalledsting]

51 minutes ago, mishra said:

2003 team was exceptional difference was Gilly.

in 1996 we had a decent team but difference was D Silva

in 2011, Difference was Dhoni

in 2011, difference was Gambhir actually

[Trichromatic]

22 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

Consider the relative strength of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Australia during Ganguly's time and MSD's time and its not as if Dhoni's way out ahead of Dada...don't be afraid to use a little common sense once in a while 

How do you explain Azhar's numbers then?

[mancalledsting]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

How do you explain Azhar's numbers then?

what about them? 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, mancalledsting said:

Yaar Kohli was India's best batsmen in CT2013 final and WT20 final in 2014 and WT20 QF, SF 2016. He also as a rookie made a solid contribution in WC 2011 Final. 

Captaincy n batting are 2 diff things ....

No one can be 100%

 

Dhoni was a good captain, but lacked in many places test captaincy specially

Ganguly was a good captain, bottled in finals

Kohli will reserve opinion on his as of now, but he does become to impatient as captain under final whatever i have seen with him till now, now in future he can prove me wrong to. 

 

No one is 100%, there is a reason dhoni won so many final n ganguly lost.....everything cant be luck. Luck works 1-2 times not most times. Azhar also won many, but wnt comment on him as i havent seen much of his time but watever i have seen he look calm . I hve noticed this with sarfraz as well and therefore i think pak will also have good chance in WC 2019 to 

 

Take ind-pak games in Wc, the reason pak always loose is they take to much pressure on themselves as defeating india to them is everything. 

[mishra]

16 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

in 96 difference was fixing. bowling first on that pitch was the worst decision ever taken by a captain and cant be without fixing.

JayaSurya and Kalu were the root cause of us batting first and initially plan looked to have worked. Its DSilva took the game away from us. And thren offcourse it became Sachin vs Lanka.

[speedheat]

13 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

@speedheat @Gollum @Ankit_sharma03

 

Series records for Indian team

Under Azhar

Series played: 43

Series won: 20

Drawn: 3

Lost: 20

 

Uder Ganguly

Series played: 32

Series won: 8

Shared: 2

 

10 out 32 

 

Under Dhoni:

Series played: 43

Won : 24

Lost 19

@Trichromatic man that's actually a good record by ganguly despite having a team with slightly less caliber and resources than dhoni even his fan ankit sharma agreed with me on that, so what's your take on you calling ganguly having better resources??

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

Didn't we lose something like 16/17 finals in ganguly's era?

but you forgot we reached those 16-17 finals despite having average ODI team.

[mancalledsting]

Since Dhoni is a genius LOI captain, let's not forget Dhoni's masterstroke which dumped us out of the 2009 T20 World Cup in England i.e.sending Jaddu (who ate up 35 balls) to bat ahead of Yuvraj, Yusuf and Dhoni. 

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8604/scorecard/356010/england-vs-india-20th-match,-group-e-world-t20-2009/

[mancalledsting]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Captaincy n batting are 2 diff things ....

No one can be 100%

 

Dhoni was a good captain, but lacked in many places test captaincy specially

Ganguly was a good captain, bottled in finals

Kohli will reserve opinion on his as of now, but he does become to impatient as captain under final whatever i have seen with him till now, now in future he can prove me wrong to. 

 

No one is 100%, there is a reason dhoni won so many final n ganguly lost.....everything cant be luck. Luck works 1-2 times not most times. Azhar also won many, but wnt comment on him as i havent seen much of his time but watever i have seen he look calm . I hve noticed this with sarfraz as well and therefore i think pak will also have good chance in WC 2019 to 

 

Take ind-pak games in Wc, the reason pak always loose is they take to much pressure on themselves as defeating india to them is everything. 

ok if you were referring to captaincy only, I take your point. Please remember that Kohli has only just took over ODI captaincy and is still in his infancy. 

[Trichromatic]

14 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Azhar record is quite surprising, cant say much as i started understanding cricket better post 1999-2000

Was it all home series or some away to specially outside subcontinent ??

Dravid in his shorter captaincy stint won more series than Ganguly. He won 10 out of 25, 4 drawn. So lost less than 50%. 

 

So, to recap -

1. Captain with lowest win loss ratio

2. Captain with worst series win % (~35%)

3. Captain is absolute absymal final record (1 out 14)

 

was somehow better for some mysterious flimsy reasons like converting them to fighters etc.

 

There are nothing back up how Ganguly was better except those opinions. No actual performances. 

[mishra]

3 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

in 2011, difference was Gambhir actually

Agree, IMO Gambhirs batting contribution more , but it was  MSDs confident decision to promote himself and then carry it through to bring it home. His decision could have so easily backfired and think of fixing, media and expert comments. Guy waged his reputatuion there.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, mancalledsting said:

ok if you were referring to captaincy only, I take your point. Please remember that Kohli has only just took over ODI captaincy and is still in his infancy. 

I knw , thats why i said ill resserve my opinion but one Wc few ipl does show u some sample. 

His u-19 victory as captain is ray of good hope, its a personal opinon . But yea i feel he gets to anxious in final moments which i think will prove costly in future finals to.....now i hope m proven wrong 

 

Also dhoni did won his 1st major tournament and then CB series which was not easy to win 

Ganguly to chalo kept on loosing finals 

[Trichromatic]

6 minutes ago, speedheat said:

@Trichromatic man that's actually a good record by ganguly despite having a team with slightly less caliber and resources than dhoni even his fan ankit sharma agreed with me on that, so what's your take on you calling ganguly having better resources??

Did Azhar have better resources?