Stradlater Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 What I hate most about this is when renowned , prestigious newspapers gets small basic things wrong. The Hindu in it's reports has constantly been referring to Ratan Singh as Maharaja Ratan Singh when in fact the title used by Kings of Mewar at that time was Rawal. Even a small google search would have helped. Mariyam and WC2011INDIA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 @Gollum I think its common knowledge that Dilip Kumar's name is Yusuf Khan. I would say he changed his name because he thought a Muslim name wouldn't be as welcome on big screen as a Hindu one in the post partition years/ 50s etc. But over time, India showed him that a Muslim name can become a superstar too. And about Muslim stars/superstars, there have been quite a few of them: Feroz Khan, Madhubala/Meena Kumari/Nargis. I do not buy this sudden spurt logic. Wrt the D Company. Obviously they'd be interested in Bollywood. There was money to make. And initially, it was Bollywood which approached the D Company for insta-justice in union/payment delay related matters. Also, I do not buy your theory that the D Company of the 80s was a fanatical crime syndicate. They had as many people from other faiths as they had Muslims. The one actor that they always helped was Sanjay Dutt. Getting him roles after his drugs rehabilitation phase. Too much conjecture on your part, based on what you would like to believe. You aren't naming one movie that SRK/Aamir got because the underworld rooted for them. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 51 minutes ago, Mariyam said: I thought Khilji was born in India. So?? Lot of Britishers had their children born in India , yet they were considered as foreigners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 23 minutes ago, Stradlater said: I have seen news reports about the same back in 2016 when shooting began. Now it might have been a masala news of sorts but the fact remains that KS didn't just conjure the claim out of thin air. There definitely was something fishy about this whole matter. Oh and also an organization of Rajputs from jaipur (Rajput sabha or smth like that) even sent a letter to SLB a couple of months before the assault inquiring about the supposed rumors that were gathering steam around that time. I saw the copy of that letter yesterday only. It was only after when SLB refused to reply and continued shooting the movie that the unfortunate events at film set took place. In his very first news conference on the movie, SLB categorically said that there is no such dream sequence. Why should SLB reply to a letter from a no name 'sena'. How much did you hear about the Karni Sena before this? Why is he answerable to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Singh bling said: So?? Lot of Britishers had their children born in India , yet they were considered as foreigners So?? I didn't say he was not a foreigner. I said he was born in India and didn't need to come to India as the other poster claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mariyam said: In his very first news conference on the movie, SLB categorically said that there is no such dream sequence. Why should SLB reply to a letter from a no name 'sena'. How much did you hear about the Karni Sena before this? Why is he answerable to them? The letter wasn't sent by KS but some other group. Rajput Sabha I think. And why not? This was within constitutional limits and given how such things usually play out in India , SLB should have paid heed to their concerns. He didn't and we are left with this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mariyam said: So?? I didn't say he was not a foreigner. I said he was born in India and didn't need to come to India as the other poster claimed. Khilji was a good administrator. His market and military reforms of that time did a fine job in reducing corruption and filling of state's treasury. Probably one of the greatest Muslim Sultans (along with Sher Shah , btw I'm not including Mughals since they didn't use the same title) of India if we assess him purely by administration standards and of course his conquests which greatly expanded the territories under the Delhi Sultanate. Single handedly suppressed the powerful Rajput clans of modern day Rajasthan and they were able to acquire power only after his death (Rana Hammir recaptured Chittor in 1326) . On religious grounds , he was obviously a dick but that isn't surprising so wth lol . Edited January 26, 2018 by Stradlater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temujin Khaghan Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 its a flop movie anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 It doesnt matter, please maintain decorum in the discourse. Its easy to use strong words against others and very hard to respect others irrespective of their views. Strongly disagree without crossing that boundary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 7 hours ago, Mariyam said: The movie Henna released in Pakistan. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-09-06/news/9103070216_1_india-and-pakistan-indian-pakistani-henna Does the religion of the character mean so much to you, when you see a film? TBH There is always something in Khan's films which make people think about Religion. In fanaa there was dialogue from Tabbu where she advocated plebicite in Kashmir, In Garv Salman showed that his colleague arbaaz is discriminated in police because he is muslim Recently in Sultan Salman and Anushka Were shown as haryanavi muslim wrestler when the reality is there are no muslim wrestler in Haryana.Films generally show stereotype of people and It is always religion of that place which matter. The above these and many more things sometimes force me and others to think why they always bring religion in film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) On 25/01/2018 at 7:41 AM, Temujin Khaghan said: also there are so many ironies happening during this entire farce #IRONY1 : Rani Padmavati is a figment of imagination of a medieval muslim poet yet the present "Chittor royalty" wants SLB to ask their permission before making a movie about her life. This is like Queen Elizabeth asking Hollywood to take her permission before they portray the Queen of the "England-like-kingdom (Germany actually is it?)" in further adaptations of Snow white #IRONY2 : Even that parrot friendly Rani Padmavati is a singhala (Sri Lanka) princess who marries a rajput. Yet dialogues about rajputi kangan and what not. This is like Kareena Kapoor getting serious about her marriage to a nawab and saying that her son will be named Timur based on her ancestor's name... Eh hello... wait a second cross this out.. :p #IRONY3 : Rajputs are rioting in the streets because this movie allegedly degrades their heroism. But this movie actually according to the critics and those who saw the movie, degrades the ears of the audiences by not shutting up on Rajput valour... #IRONY4 : This is the best one... On one hand Liberal critics want to support the movie because the hindutva is against it and on the other hand this movie is all about evil muslim king wanting to commit the first Love jihad on a hindu married princess... Now observe a minute's silence in recognition of their pathetic situation.... now point at the nearest liberal next to you and laugh out loud - hahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.. :p Dear, what we poor Liberals have to do with this "Fictitious Story"? We poor Liberals "ONLY" want to enjoy it as a movie, and not want to turn it to a battlefield. We poor Liberals also enjoy films and dramas upon Tipu Sultan or Akbar-e-Azam, even if there are lot of exaggerations in their bravery and fictitious stories are mader around their characters. So, it is not only limited to Rajputs that we are enjoying such movies. We poor Liberals support Padmaavat while we believe bollywood is making a fictitious film and they have full right to it. We poor Liberals/Atheists also support making of Mahabharat or religious fictitious films like Baabubali, even we don't believe in these characters. We give Hindu Religious people full right to fully propagate their religious beliefs through these films. We poor Liberals support PK while we believe again that every one is free to express his opinions through films. Even if someone does not believe in gods, then he has the right to express it through films, just like the religious people also have the right to spread their views and religion through movies. Indeed we Liberals are the poorest people, who fight for the Equal Rights for every human being, but in return every human being (either religious Hindu or religious Muslim or religious Christian ....) finds a fault in us. It is indeed sad. Dear Temujin Khaghan, You are criticizing us (the poor Liberals) for supporting the film full of praise of Rajputs. But you are wrong. We didn't support Padmaavat for praising of Rajputs (we even didn't know till few days ago of it's being full of praise of Rajputs), but we supported whole time Padmaavat only and only for one Reason i.e. Bhensali and every human being has the right to make a film according to his views. Nothing more and nothing less. In fact I have seen many liberals (even in this thread) who are today criticizing Bhensali for this excessive Rajput praise. Edited January 27, 2018 by Alam_dar Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 18 hours ago, randomGuy said: Arey yar PK ke liye bhi nahi Banta tha according to the many... Just see the tendency of the filmmakers, hindu girl with a Pakistani... If it was hindu guy with a Pakistani girl, the film would not even release in Pakistan.. Why even have Pakistan reference in so many movies ? (Btw dangal didn't release there coz they wanted to remove Indian national anthem) Why should that nation occupy our mind space via such movies ? Regarding padmavat, there is no smoke with out fire... It might have had some objectionable content initially (or even now), bhansali got free publicity n now, movie will be a hit.. Dear bro, I request you to please explain me about the Problems with PK once again, while I was never able to understand the people who criticized PK: (1) Do you criticize PK while it was against the gods and religions? It is simple, being Atheists we don't believe in any gods, any Mahabharat, any Ramayan or other religious fictitious stories. But still we sport them while every singe human being has a right to express his views/religion through any means like preaching, distributing books, through movies and dramas etc. Therefore, when we don't have any problem when the religious people propagate their religious stories and gods and views through dramas/films, why then the religious people get the problems when Atheists describe their life stories that they went to mosques, dargahs, Mandirs, churches but every time they got the wrong numbers? (2) Or do you criticize PK while it showed the marriage of Hindu girl (actually an Indian Girl) to a Muslim guy (actually a Pakistani boy for whom religion meant secondary to nothing as he went clearly against the Religion and gave the message that Humanity and Love are primary values while religion should be rejected when it demands anti-humanity and anti-love behaviour)? I believe that here the "Real Message" of this movie is being "neglected and hidden" by brining the excuse of extremist Muslims of Pakistan and the extremist Government of Pakistan who obviously would do anything to find faults in such movies. Therefore, the movie PK is for the "Normal People of Pakistan", giving them the message to "Revolt" against the Religion and society when they hinder the Love and Humanity. Film PK should not be blamed for the crimes that were committed by the Pakistani Government (i.e. banning it due to Indian National Anthem etc.) (3) Or do you criticize PK while Hindu Girl and Muslim Boy fall in love? Did you criticize it too if it was a Hindu Boy and Muslim Girl? (I hear religious Pakistanis complaining all the time for Indian movies where there is Hindu boy and Muslim girl). Would you be ok if film makers take 2 pairs (first Muslim girl/Hindu boy and second Muslim boy/Hindu girl)? Actually wise people say you could not make "everyone" happy. I say film PK was excellent. It gave exactly that message, which my views represent. If a religious Hindu or religious Muslim is allowed to make films about praying to Shiv or Allah and their prayer getting accepted in the heavens, then why it is a problem if we make a film about praying to Shiv or Allah and getting the wrong number every time? And Indian/Pakistani intermarriage also gave a really heart touching message to the Pakistani normal people and youth that Indians are not the monsters (which is usually showed in other Pakistani Media), but they are also normal human beings and worthy of being LOVED and being Respected. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 @Alam_dar just want to point u towards some ground realities " According to the poll, 86 percent of Muslims in Pakistan, 84 percent in Afghanistan, 81 percent in the Palestinian territories, 80 percent in Egypt, 65 percent in Jordan, 57 percent in Iraq and 54 percent in Malaysia and Bangladesh favor stoning as a lethal punishment for adultery. A majority of Muslims in several countries also support the death penalty for Muslims who convert away from Islam, including in Afghanistan (79 percent), Egypt (88 percent), Pakistan (75 percent), the Palestinian territories (62 percent), Jordan (83 percent) and Malaysia (58 percent)." Poll Pakistanis how many would be fine if their daughter/sister marries a non-Muslim (n her future offsprings will be non Muslim)... The answer could be 0-1%. Read my post above regarding PK, it says : Pakistanis are known to be brainwashed for intolerant Islam... Yet what they showed in PK was that Indian folks are the intolerant ones for not agreeing to a hindu girl marrying a Pakistani...their narrative shown was that one can't trust a Pakistani coz he will betray ..lol...while the reality is one can't trust a Pakistani coz chances are he/she is brainwashed via Islam, rotten to the core beyond redemption.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, randomGuy said: @Alam_dar just want to point u towards some ground realities " According to the poll, 86 percent of Muslims in Pakistan, 84 percent in Afghanistan, 81 percent in the Palestinian territories, 80 percent in Egypt, 65 percent in Jordan, 57 percent in Iraq and 54 percent in Malaysia and Bangladesh favor stoning as a lethal punishment for adultery. A majority of Muslims in several countries also support the death penalty for Muslims who convert away from Islam, including in Afghanistan (79 percent), Egypt (88 percent), Pakistan (75 percent), the Palestinian territories (62 percent), Jordan (83 percent) and Malaysia (58 percent)." Poll Pakistanis how many would be fine if their daughter/sister marries a non-Muslim (n her future offsprings will be non Muslim)... The answer could be 0-1%. Read my post above regarding PK, it says : Pakistanis are known to be brainwashed for intolerant Islam... Yet what they showed in PK was that Indian folks are the intolerant ones for not agreeing to a hindu girl marrying a Pakistani...their narrative shown was that one can't trust a Pakistani coz he will betray ..lol...while the reality is one can't trust a Pakistani coz chances are he/she is brainwashed via Islam, rotten to the core beyond redemption.. Dear Randomguy, the first question was: (1) Do you criticize PK while it was against the gods and religions? It seems you don't have any problem with it and you do allow the atheists in India to express their views through movies if they have found the wrong numbers after praying in mosques, mandirs, churches. (2) The realities you pointed out about the vast Muslim majority to be fanatic is completely true and very bitter. But even if 1% Pakistanis are open minded, then it make 1.8 million human beings who happened to be Pakistanis, but still who believe in humanity and may fall in love with any Indian girl. In fact, there are more than 1% Pakistanis who would not object to marriage with Hindus while Indian Bollywood movies have played a very positive role in Pakistani society, stopped them to consider Indians as monsters, convinced them to accept others as worthy of being love and respect. Question is, how the change is going to occur? Obviously change is not going to occur if we stop showing in movies that such marriage could ever happen. The movies like PK give the "DREAMS" to humanity loving people that indeed such marriages are possible. They inspire them to abandon and leave the outdated religion and to rebel against it. Therefore, movies like PK and Veer Zara leave very positive impacts. A large numbers of Pakistanies, may be more than 30% feel fully comfortable for such marriages at least in films, when not in their practical life. These dreams, this virtual world is the BASE for the change. More such movies are made, more message is conveyed, and more changes we will see. You criticized that a considerable part of Indians were shown in negative light that they were not ready to trust in a Pakistani guy. In fact it is true that there is a segment in Indian society which judges on the bases of Pakistani/Muslim and not on the base of Personal Merits of a guy. I believe you are totally right that may be 95% or more Pakistanies have totally rotten minds due to the religion. But the message of PK was to judge a guy on "Personal Merits" and not for him being a Pakistani/Muslim. You see that PK is only a Movie.And movies are normally far away from being PERFECT and far away from the realities. In fact it is impossible to show all the hard realities in a single movie. Primary aim of movies like PK is to impress the minds of the people in positive manner through bringing them is a dream world, so that even the ground realities are bitter, but still people start dreaming for a better world in the future. So, please don't be so harsh on PK if it failed to show the bitter reality that indeed 95% or more Pakistanis have rotten minds due to the religion. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 11 hours ago, Alam_dar said: Dear bro, I request you to please explain me about the Problems with PK once again, while I was never able to understand the people who criticized PK: (1) Do you criticize PK while it was against the gods and religions? It is simple, being Atheists we don't believe in any gods, any Mahabharat, any Ramayan or other religious fictitious stories. But still we sport them while every singe human being has a right to express his views/religion through any means like preaching, distributing books, through movies and dramas etc. Therefore, when we don't have any problem when the religious people propagate their religious stories and gods and views through dramas/films, why then the religious people get the problems when Atheists describe their life stories that they went to mosques, dargahs, Mandirs, churches but every time they got the wrong numbers? (2) Or do you criticize PK while it showed the marriage of Hindu girl (actually an Indian Girl) to a Muslim guy (actually a Pakistani boy for whom religion meant secondary to nothing as he went clearly against the Religion and gave the message that Humanity and Love are primary values while religion should be rejected when it demands anti-humanity and anti-love behaviour)? I believe that here the "Real Message" of this movie is being "neglected and hidden" by brining the excuse of extremist Muslims of Pakistan and the extremist Government of Pakistan who obviously would do anything to find faults in such movies. Therefore, the movie PK is for the "Normal People of Pakistan", giving them the message to "Revolt" against the Religion and society when they hinder the Love and Humanity. Film PK should not be blamed for the crimes that were committed by the Pakistani Government (i.e. banning it due to Indian National Anthem etc.) (3) Or do you criticize PK while Hindu Girl and Muslim Boy fall in love? Did you criticize it too if it was a Hindu Boy and Muslim Girl? (I hear religious Pakistanis complaining all the time for Indian movies where there is Hindu boy and Muslim girl). Would you be ok if film makers take 2 pairs (first Muslim girl/Hindu boy and second Muslim boy/Hindu girl)? Actually wise people say you could not make "everyone" happy. I say film PK was excellent. It gave exactly that message, which my views represent. If a religious Hindu or religious Muslim is allowed to make films about praying to Shiv or Allah and their prayer getting accepted in the heavens, then why it is a problem if we make a film about praying to Shiv or Allah and getting the wrong number every time? And Indian/Pakistani intermarriage also gave a really heart touching message to the Pakistani normal people and youth that Indians are not the monsters (which is usually showed in other Pakistani Media), but they are also normal human beings and worthy of being LOVED and being Respected. The problem with PK was it was 99% criticising Hinduism and 1% other Religions , Wouldn't it be great if film also criticised muslim practices like Halal and Hajj? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Singh bling said: The problem with PK was it was 99% criticising Hinduism and 1% other Religions , Wouldn't it be great if film also criticised muslim practices like Halal and Hajj? Why would you want to criticize Halal and Hajj? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, Stradlater said: Why would you want to criticize Halal and Hajj? I don't but as the film has 2 characters Hindu and muslims , and plenty of Hindu practices are criticised wouldn't it be fair To criticise some islamic practices?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Singh bling said: I don't but as the film has 2 characters Hindu and muslims , and plenty of Hindu practices are criticised wouldn't it be fair To criticise some islamic practices?? Yes there exist many stone age Islamic practices which could have been attacked. I guess you meant Nikah halala which is as medieval as they come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Singh bling said: The problem with PK was it was 99% criticising Hinduism and 1% other Religions , Wouldn't it be great if film also criticised muslim practices like Halal and Hajj? It may be that PK didn't criticized enough the Islam, but we must understand that: (1) It is difficult to arrange all things in one movie. (2) And despite being not getting the chance to criticize all religions, the message which PK gave was "EQUAL" for all relgions, that all of them are wrong numbers. And actually Indian Muslims also protested against PK and their excuse was the same that PK insulted their religion of Islam by telling that Allah was too a wrong number. Quote I don't but as the film has 2 characters Hindu and muslims , and plenty of Hindu practices are criticised wouldn't it be fair To criticise some islamic practices?? (3) The case of Pakistani guy didn't come due to Islam, but it came mainly due to India/Pakistan rivalry and message was to stop this rivalries and try to live with peace and love. All in all there may be short comings in the film, but PK didn't deserve the amount of hatred that it got. It was a beautiful movie and I enjoyed it. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Singh bling said: Wouldn't it be great if film also criticised muslim practices like Halal and Hajj? Film PK vs Film "East is East" I am all for making a new film and criticizing all the Islamic practices. Actually there already exist such a film whose name is "East is East". It was made in England and Om Puri played the role of a Pakistani Muslim Father. Whole film is full of criticism of Islamic practices which made life difficult for the British wife and children who were circumcised and who were compelled to get the Islamic education in Madrissa and children hiding their activities from their father as he was critical to every activity while Islam puts a ban upon all such things. I enjoyed that movie and wish that many more such films could be made. Edited January 27, 2018 by Alam_dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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