Please drop Pandya to maintain Test cricket’s sanctity.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If this is view point of the coach then Pandya has no chance of growing . That statement shows what the management think of him as a bowler.

 

If Pandya bowling is so weak that coach thinks it is better for team if he does not bowl then he should not be in the team. Don't give this nonsense he score more than anyone other Kohli.

No by that he meant hopefully 4 bowlers do the job, u ask any coach n he ll say that that hopefully 4 do the job....coz if u hve to get 5th in play that means opposition are doing well....

[R!TTER]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Yours is too.  We are nothing.  Only the people making the decisions matter.  Don't fool yourself.  We are discussing only because we like it.

 

 

 

West Indies did play Roger Harper in India.

 

Wrong logic above.

 

Our strength in tests in SENA countries is not spin bowling.

 

Indian spinners in  SENA countries from 1990.  Poor performance.

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
A Kumble	1990-2008	35	67	1886.1	394	5224	141	8/141	12/279	37.04	2.76	80.2	5	1
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2011	19	34	799.2	108	2476	62	7/120	7/102	39.93	3.09	77.3	3	0
R Ashwin	2011-2018	12	20	540.4	83	1694	38	4/62	7/121	44.57	3.13	85.3	0	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2014	7	12	307.2	57	831	18	6/138	6/154	46.16	2.70	102.4	1	0
SLV Raju	1990-1996	10	17	429.0	124	936	20	3/11	5/132	46.80	2.18	128.7	0	0
SR Tendulkar	1990-2012	63	51	226.5	22	856	18	2/7	2/15	47.55	3.77	75.6	0	0
ND Hirwani	1990-1990	6	10	322.0	69	895	15	4/174	5/226	59.66	2.77	128.8	0	0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmax1=08+Aug+2018;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

West Indian pacers in tests in India from 1976 to 1989.  It was still their strength and superb.

 

 

 

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
CA Walsh	1987-1988	4	7	137.1	24	437	26	5/54	9/94	16.80	3.18	31.6	2	0
MA Holding	1983-1983	6	11	223.4	43	663	30	5/102	6/88	22.10	2.96	44.7	1	0
WW Daniel	1983-1983	3	6	98.0	12	332	14	5/39	6/50	23.71	3.38	42.0	1	0
MD Marshall	1978-1983	9	15	299.0	70	886	36	6/37	9/102	24.61	2.96	49.8	2	0
BP Patterson	1987-1988	4	7	117.1	14	456	17	5/24	8/124	26.82	3.89	41.3	2	0
ST Clarke	1978-1979	5	8	233.5	39	711	21	5/126	6/121	33.85	3.04	66.8	1	0
N Phillip	1978-1979	6	9	193.2	38	650	19	4/48	7/85	34.21	3.36	61.0	0	0
WW Davis	1983-1988	10	18	290.4	29	952	27	4/76	5/96	35.25	3.27	64.5	0	0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=6;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmax1=31+Dec+1989;spanmin1=01+Jan+1976;spanval1=span;team=4;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

South African bowlers in Asia from 1992 to 2009.  Their pacers were still their strength and superb.

 

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
PS de Villiers	1995-1998	5	10	173.0	55	438	25	6/23	10/108	17.52	2.53	41.5	2	1
AA Donald	1992-2001	23	42	801.4	211	2147	113	7/84	12/139	19.00	2.67	42.5	6	1
BN Schultz	1992-1997	6	9	190.5	55	485	25	5/48	9/106	19.40	2.54	45.8	2	0
SM Pollock	1996-2007	37	69	1259.4	384	3054	145	6/30	10/147	21.06	2.42	52.1	6	1
WJ Cronje	1992-2000	22	28	273.3	111	516	24	3/21	5/34	21.50	1.88	68.3	0	0
DW Steyn	2006-2008	10	17	270.3	42	1018	42	5/23	8/114	24.23	3.76	38.6	3	0
M Ntini	1998-2008	31	58	954.4	188	3073	112	6/59	8/89	27.43	3.21	51.1	3	0
AJ Hall	2002-2007	8	14	182.5	40	557	20	3/1	5/20	27.85	3.04	54.8	0	0
M Hayward	2000-2004	9	18	264.5	52	900	31	5/56	7/119	29.03	3.39	51.2	1	0
PL Harris	2007-2008	9	15	359.1	78	970	31	5/73	7/131	31.29	2.70	69.5	1	0
BM McMillan	1992-1997	16	26	401.1	118	950	29	4/74	4/71	32.75	2.36	83.0	0	0
M Morkel	2006-2008	4	7	95.0	9	365	11	3/63	4/71	33.18	3.84	51.8	0	0
PR Adams	1996-2003	15	25	458.5	89	1583	47	7/128	8/139	33.68	3.45	58.5	2	0
JH Kallis	1997-2008	36	60	691.5	164	2047	59	4/39	7/110	34.69	2.95	70.3	0	0
L Klusener	1996-2004	19	29	358.5	71	1139	32	8/64	8/139	35.59	3.17	67.2	1	0
N Boje	2000-2006	16	25	543.1	108	1602	45	5/62	7/93	35.60	2.94	72.4	3	0
PL Symcox	1993-1998	10	17	264.3	56	803	18	3/8	4/95	44.61	3.03	88.1	0	0
A Nel	2003-2007	8	15	294.5	52	946	21	3/57	5/117	45.04	3.20	84.2	0	0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmax1=31+Dec+2009;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;team=3;template=results;type=bowling

You're posting what I said and yet we still shouldn't play the best bowlers i.e. spinners? Roger Harper played in 83 did he?

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, sandeep said:

And Sanjay Bangar when we won the test series in England in 2007. 

Bangar was in 2002 not 07

In 2007 that role was filled by ganguly ( but that shows we always need someone for that role)

 

 

Quote

Just because we have lacked decent options historically to fill this role, doesn't mean that the role is not viable.  

N in result have been their

We won In SL with binny , we didnt win the 1st game with specialist 

We won in Lords, next test we got a specialist n we lost 

We won in Sa that one test time time, last tour we didnt win a single game n bowlers bowled so much that it affected them

Edited August 8, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Binny played 6 matches before being discarded for good as , they realized he adds no value to the team.I don't see how Pandya is different from Binny. I would take Binny over Pandya in England.

no after that we got pandya who was an add on in every dept

and after that we only played at home, were jadeja, ashwin, jyanat were all rounder......

 

The minute overseas tour came we went with pandya , before that the last overseas tour was WI and binny was in the team for that 

 

So check , before quotting

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No by that he meant hopefully 4 bowlers do the job, u ask any coach n he ll say that that hopefully 4 do the job....coz if u hve to get 5th in play that means opposition are doing well....

I know  fifth option means opposition is doing well. if Pandya in England is fifth option then there is something very wrong with him.What that means is, spinner is doing better than him.

 

He is just not good enough as batsman to justify his place.All he is doing is rolling his arm for few overs then I want Kohli to do it as it makes no difference and get a real batsman in the team.

 

In quest of creating a balanced team they are ruining the team.

[Straight Drive]

40 minutes ago, Khota said:

This rest thing is getting ridiculous. Pandya is providing rest. This was never a criteria ever before in history of cicket. Pandya supporters are getting desparate.

The primary objective of picking all-rounders is still to score runs and pick wicket, it always was an it will always be. Nobody at this international  level is so very negative minded. It is because nowadays we do not have pace allrounder who can pick wickets at acceptable strike rate, the rest etc is the only positive that they can offer,it is no ways a desired objective.Ask Hardik Pandya whether he bowls to give a rest or pick wicket. Go through his interviews. Wickets  is what they want but they don't  get it at acceptable strike rate etc. Rest is secondary outcome which specialist bowlers get, but opponents make merry and they also take nice rest at wickets when bowlers with  a high strike rate come to bowl.It relieves all the pressure more often than not.Physically for our bowlers it can be temporary relief, but then series results wise it is one of the contributing  factor towards a loss.Partnerships flourish. What is 200 all out becomes 300 all out.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Straight Drive

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, putrevus said:

I know  fifth option means opposition is doing well. if Pandya in England is fifth option then there is something very wrong with him.What that means is, spinner is doing better than him.

But spinner did better then as it was gripping n turning in the 1st game. 

When Pandya won MOM in his debut against NZ in India, didnt mean something was wrong with other spinners. Their was help n he exploited it

Just now, putrevus said:

He is just not good enough as batsman to justify his place.All he is doing is rolling his arm for few overs then I want Kohli to do it as it makes no difference and get a real batsman in the team.

From SA tour, after kohli he is the 2nd highest scorer

In that case lets dump everyone other then kohli to 

Just now, putrevus said:

In quest of creating a balanced team they are ruining the team.

No in reality the specialist arent performing n he is jst being made scapegoat

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You're posting what I said and yet we still shouldn't play the best bowlers i.e. spinners? Roger Harper played in 83 did he?

 

I am not posting what you said.

 

Our best bowlers in SENA countries have all been pacers from 1990 onwards

 

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
JJ Bumrah	2018-2018	3	6	112.1	16	353	14	5/54	7/111	25.21	3.14	48.0	1	0
B Kumar	2014-2018	8	13	281.5	72	877	30	6/82	6/103	29.23	3.11	56.3	2	0
P Kumar	2011-2011	3	5	158.3	38	443	15	5/106	7/169	29.53	2.79	63.4	1	0
Z Khan	2001-2014	30	53	1129.1	224	3745	119	5/29	9/134	31.47	3.31	56.9	6	0
BKV Prasad	1996-2000	11	20	477.0	108	1385	44	5/60	10/153	31.47	2.90	65.0	3	1
J Srinath	1991-2001	22	42	1030.1	219	3054	89	6/76	8/104	34.31	2.96	69.4	4	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2018	14	27	512.3	78	1875	54	5/28	6/74	34.72	3.65	56.9	2	0
S Sreesanth	2006-2011	12	21	438.0	76	1602	44	5/40	8/99	36.40	3.65	59.7	2	0
A Kumble	1990-2008	35	67	1886.1	394	5224	141	8/141	12/279	37.04	2.76	80.2	5	1
N Kapil Dev	1990-1994	16	30	704.5	167	1766	47	5/97	8/163	37.57	2.50	89.9	2	0
RP Singh	2007-2011	8	14	244.2	42	972	25	5/59	7/117	38.88	3.97	58.6	1	0
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2011	19	34	799.2	108	2476	62	7/120	7/102	39.93	3.09	77.3	3	0
I Sharma	2008-2018	30	51	1122.0	181	3872	94	7/74	9/162	41.19	3.45	71.6	4	0
IK Pathan	2003-2008	4	7	137.0	13	495	12	3/54	5/117	41.25	3.61	68.5	0	0
UT Yadav	2011-2018	8	14	260.3	32	1175	28	5/93	7/176	41.96	4.51	55.8	1	0
AB Agarkar	1999-2004	13	23	439.3	73	1645	38	6/41	8/160	43.28	3.74	69.3	1	0
R Ashwin	2011-2018	12	20	540.4	83	1694	38	4/62	7/121	44.57	3.13	85.3	0	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2014	7	12	307.2	57	831	18	6/138	6/154	46.16	2.70	102.4	1	0
SC Ganguly	1996-2008	32	32	178.5	33	607	13	3/71	3/54	46.69	3.39	82.5	0	0
SLV Raju	1990-1996	10	17	429.0	124	936	20	3/11	5/132	46.80	2.18	128.7	0	0
SR Tendulkar	1990-2012	63	51	226.5	22	856	18	2/7	2/15	47.55	3.77	75.6	0	0
M Prabhakar	1990-1993	15	29	672.0	140	2005	41	5/101	6/217	48.90	2.98	98.3	1	0
AS Wassan	1990-1990	4	6	118.4	16	504	10	4/108	5/188	50.40	4.24	71.2	0	0
ND Hirwani	1990-1990	6	10	322.0	69	895	15	4/174	5/226	59.66	2.77	128.8	0	0
A Nehra	2001-2003	8	15	249.5	38	956	16	3/34	5/54	59.75	3.82	93.6	0	0
VR Aaron	2014-2014	4	6	119.1	7	612	10	3/97	3/97	61.20	5.13	71.5	0	0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmax1=08+Aug+2018;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

Roger Harper played in 1982-83 in India.

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

no after that we got pandya who was an add on in every dept

and after that we only played at home, were jadeja, ashwin, jyanat were all rounder......

 

The minute overseas tour came we went with pandya , before that the last overseas tour was WI and binny was in the team for that 

 

So check , before quotting

Yes they took Pandya as he was younger, what is your point. My point about Binny , He was in team as they were searching for so called balance and they took him when they found a younger option they discarded him. Same thing will happen to Pandya if find another youngster who bowls at better pace or is better batsman.

 

Even after two years with the team Pandya is not core member of the team.Kapil was the first name on the team irrespective where india played after his first 12 months.Stokes is the same.It is not about stats with Pandya it is the growth as a player.

Edited August 8, 2018 by putrevus

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

But spinner did better then as it was gripping n turning in the 1st game. 

When Pandya won MOM in his debut against NZ in India, didnt mean something was wrong with other spinners. Their was help n he exploited it

From SA tour, after kohli he is the 2nd highest scorer

In that case lets dump everyone other then kohli to 

No in reality the specialist arent performing n he is jst being made scapegoat

I told you before also Pandya was not the reason why this team lost first test and he is not the immediate problem also.Team has bigger problems.

 

My points about Pandya have got nothing to do with whether he should be selected for second test or not.

 

It is about growth of Pandya as a bowler and cricketer.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Then go for Kuldeep. This is where a good analyst armed with new metrics/analytics can make a pick. BCCI not spending the money on that is a mistake.

 

Before the start of this test series, I wanted to play Kuldeep in place of Pandya on standard and spinning tracks in England.  And Pandya only on green tracks.

 

The horrible batting by 5 of our top 6 batters makes one want to bolster the batting.

 

If we want Kuldeep in the side ... Rahane, Rahul, Karthick  and Vijay must step up as batters from now on.

[express bowling]

I think a very good long term solution would be if Kuldeep can work on his batting and become a 32+ average batsman.

 

Easier said than done though ...  but he has some batting ability.

 

Kuldeep has potential to bowl on most surfaces.

[Straight Drive]

Gone through posts of comparison between Bangar and Hardik.  Do we really need another Sanjay Bangar in Hardik Pandya. Seriously?

Bangar was used as makeshift opener. He also bowled few overs early because whatever little threat he could offer as bowler was with new ball. bangar did all roudners role for railways.Jacob Martin too payed for railways iirc but it was nowhere near a great team even that time in Ranji. 

 

He was selected after Wasim Jaffer got dropped and India were searching as partner for Sehwag.There was a 3 day match against Essex. The other contendor was Shiv Sunder Das. In firs tinnings Bangar was out for low score whereas Das scored 250 in that match. In second innings Bangar opened with Pappu and scored half century. Even though Das had outscored him by more than 200 runs, Bangar was picked because he could bowl. 

 

Bangar played a nice innings then with R D surviving against Hoggard who was a good swing bowler. Cadick had bounce. Flintoff to was there those times as all rounder.I think both Bangar and RD took the partnership to third session after Sehwags wicket had fallen early in first session.Bangar made 50 again like in practice match against some very tough bowling. 

 

Bangar also played another good knock when Sehwag took on WI attack. 

 

There is nothing special to write about bangar. He was considered as one who would take blows and someone who showed taking hits on body and weathering storm rather than taking attack to bowlers. He was totally different cricketer to what Hardik is skill-wise.  

 

He used to take wickets like Hardik Pandya, here and there. His bowling too was nothing to talk about performance wise although he used to move the ball a bit. Whereas Hardik's strength is pace.Neither Bangar was worthy of a good all roudner at international level. He played what he was made for . I dont think he played more than 20 tests.

 

If we need another Bangar type all rounder then it's not going to help at all. It was not because of Bangar that we were doing good. It was Sehwag, Rahul Dravid, saurav Ganguly, Sachin. Like i mentioned before he was there just to cover up as makeshift opener and see off the new ball instead of wasim Jaffer and bowl a few overs trying to get some movement and maybe the odd wicket.

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Gone through posts of comparison between Bangar and Hardik.  Do we really need another Sanjay Bangar in Hardik Pandya. Seriously?

Bangar was used as makeshift opener. He also bowled few overs early because whatever little threat he could offer as bowler was with new ball. bangar did all roudners role for railways.Jacob Martin too payed for railways iirc but it was nowhere near a great team even that time in Ranji. 

 

He was selected after Wasim Jaffer got dropped and India were searching as partner for Sehwag.There was a 3 day match against Essex. The other contendor was Shiv Sunder Das. In firs tinnings Bangar was out for low score whereas Das scored 250 in that match. In second innings Bangar opened with Pappu and scored half century. Even though Das had outscored him by more than 200 runs, Bangar was picked because he could bowl. 

 

Bangar played a nice innings then with R D surviving against Hoggard who was a good swing bowler. Cadick had bounce. Flintoff to was there those times as all rounder.I think both Bangar and RD took the partnership to third session after Sehwags wicket had fallen early in first session.Bangar made 50 again like in practice match against some very tough bowling. 

 

Bangar also played another good knock when Sehwag took on WI attack. 

 

There is nothing special to write about bangar. He was considered as one who would take blows and someone who showed taking hits on body and weathering storm rather than taking attack to bowlers. He was totally different cricketer to what Hardik is skill-wise.  

 

He used to take wickets like Hardik Pandya, here and there. His bowling too was nothing to talk about performance wise although he used to move the ball a bit. Whereas Hardik's strength is pace.Neither Bangar was worthy of a good all roudner at international level. He played what he was made for . I dont think he played more than 20 tests.

 

If we need another Bangar type all rounder then it's not going to help at all. It was not because of Bangar that we were doing good. It was Sehwag, Rahul Dravid, saurav Ganguly, Sachin. Like i mentioned before he was there just to cover up as makeshift opener and see off the new ball instead of wasim Jaffer and bowl a few overs trying to get some movement and maybe the odd wicket.

Pandya has already proven himself to be better than Bangar.  By any statistical metric.  Nobody's claiming that Pandya deserves an extended run if he performs at the current level.  The question is whether he has the capability and skills to do better.  If he does, it would have a massive impact on the winning percentage of our team.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

35 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Yes they took Pandya as he was younger, what is your point. My point about Binny , He was in team as they were searching for so called balance and they took him when they found a younger option they discarded him. Same thing will happen to Pandya if find another youngster who bowls at better pace or is better batsman.

Is their any youngster like that in domestic circuuit i doubt

but if they do find someone better, select him........what important is whats good for the team

I really hope nagarkotti develops into one specially his batting 

35 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Even after two years with the team Pandya is not core member of the team.

Kapil was the first name on the team irrespective where india played after his first 12 months.Stokes is the same.It is not about stats with Pandya it is the growth as a player.

Who said he isnt???

Kapil cud only get a place as fast bowler in any indian side, pandya plays a diff role

 

Kapil was the spearhead of bowling, use to get new ball n tons of overs 

Pandya gets the bowl to give others rest or as a change if nothing is happening 

 

Stokes can play as batsman , he is in awfull form in bat but still provides balance and is contributing with ball as these conidtion favours him but when team needed him in India he failed 

 

Let pandya play as much as them, u dnt develop so much skills in 8 test

37 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It is about growth of Pandya as a bowler and cricketer.

Ganguly- No one grows by sittiing on bench

At this point acc to me, many he is brings something to team ......many are against that thought 

But he is playing coz team needs to play that role. 

At the end it all comes down to specialist doing their jon

Going for a speialist batsman- which bradman is warming benches....even if someone is good.....their is already vacany in batting. let him play their 

Going for extra bowler- yea we are already struggling to score runs, how many more wkts then we want to taken then 20 

[adi B]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

This rest thing is getting ridiculous. Pandya is providing rest. This was never a criteria ever before in history of cicket. Pandya supporters are getting desparate.

Yes it always was the criteria and always will be ,try to watch some test cricket before passing hollow judgements .

Ask any captain ,coach and the fast bowlers across the world and every one will tell you that in a long gruelling test series ,the main 3 pacers need breathers in a while to maintain their intensity throughout the day and so that their workload can be reduced in every test so as to protect them from injury and overburden. 

 

The best option is a pace bowling AR in SENA conditions who can fill in those 10-12 overs per innings and pick a wkt or 2  ,spinners hardly have much impact their and anyways every team plays with at least 1 spinner .now pandya has to improve as a bowler without a doubt but 2 wkts per test and avg of 35-37 should be enough to warrant a spot if the batting avg comes close to 35 .

 

Australia tried with watto,marsh ,saf with McLaren (after kallis went) ,England have luckily got stokes now,nzl tried with oram ,cairns etc now they are working with grandhome,Windies with holder.

So everyteam realizes the requirement of a fast bowling AR in at least  SENA conditions and they more or less stick with that funda with decent success .

 

Now comes the real point ,we need to either develop pandya or just throw him out if he aint performing but the team management realizes the value of a AR so they want to give him a good run before failing or developing into a proper cricketer ,there's absolutely no problem with this line of thinking and I personally support this thinking 

[Straight Drive]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Pandya has already proven himself to be better than Bangar.  By any statistical metric.  Nobody's claiming that Pandya deserves an extended run if he performs at the current level.  The question is whether he has the capability and skills to do better.  If he does, it would have a massive impact on the winning percentage of our team.  

Those who do not know history of how Bangar got into team etc will say anything. Topi unko pehnao jo us waqt zinda nahi the aur cricket follow karne ki umar ke nahi the.  Those who say Bangar was good all rounder are showing double standards by saying Hardik is bad. He was a man of fight just like Hardik Pandya, at all levels of cricket and played in toughest of country, different to Indian conditions, yet it was not result oriented career. I would respect both of Bangar as well as Hardik to the level they got at. The problem is whether we need the odd innings like both of them play and the high sr bowling that both of them offer ? or we want someone who fits the bill and gives results rather than just showing the grit, fight etc. Subjectively one could not even fault Bangar. But i am afraid at these levels it is not just subjective expectations. Bangar faced the heat of it and had a short test career. There is a effectiveness issue both with Bangar as well as Hardik. Hardik has to get ahead of subjective aspects as well. Ultimately that is what will decide the career. If averaging few more runs than Bangar and having a better bowling sr is the aspirtion then it's a relatively easy thing, but that will still get strong criticism because those standards are very very low.

[express bowling]

21 minutes ago, adi B said:

Yes it always was the criteria and always will be ,try to watch some test cricket before passing hollow judgements .

Ask any captain ,coach and the fast bowlers across the world and every one will tell you that in a long gruelling test series ,the main 3 pacers need breathers in a while to maintain their intensity throughout the day and so that their workload can be reduced in every test so as to protect them from injury and overburden. 

 

The best option is a pace bowling AR in SENA conditions who can fill in those 10-12 overs per innings and pick a wkt or 2  ,spinners hardly have much impact their and anyways every team plays with at least 1 spinner .now pandya has to improve as a bowler without a doubt but 2 wkts per test and avg of 35-37 should be enough to warrant a spot if the batting avg comes close to 35 .

 

Australia tried with watto,marsh ,saf with McLaren (after kallis went) ,England have luckily got stokes now,nzl tried with oram ,cairns etc now they are working with grandhome,Windies with holder.

So everyteam realizes the requirement of a fast bowling AR in at least  SENA conditions and they more or less stick with that funda with decent success .

 

Now comes the real point ,we need to either develop pandya or just throw him out if he aint performing but the team management realizes the value of a AR so they want to give him a good run before failing or developing into a proper cricketer ,there's absolutely no problem with this line of thinking and I personally support this thinking 

 

 

And just look how having 5 bowling options  (  helping the specialist pacers bowl shorter spells and maintain pace and intensity  )  have positively affected the performance of our specialist pacers outside Asia in the last 3 years

 

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
B Kumar	2016-2018	4	7	108.4	39	262	16	5/33	6/46	16.37	2.41	40.7	1	0
Mohammed Shami	2016-2018	8	15	208.1	40	642	29	5/28	6/74	22.13	3.08	43.0	1	0
I Sharma	2016-2018	7	13	183.0	31	504	22	5/51	6/97	22.90	2.75	49.9	1	0
JJ Bumrah	2018-2018	3	6	112.1	16	353	14	5/54	7/111	25.21	3.14	48.0	1	0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmax1=08+Aug+2018;spanmin1=08+May+2015;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by express bowling

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

This is the other good spinners' stats in SA, Aus, Eng before this 2018

 

 

 

Just think of the decision making involved before the first test in England.

 

2 leading spinners who have been failures in  SENA and England ...  Indian spinners generally not doing well in SENA for the last 30 years or more ...  cloudy conditions expected which will aid swing ... pacers generally do much better in England.

 

So, one spinner was chosen.

 

Now Ashwin bowls well  ... next pitch may aid spinners ...  in this scenario, 2 spinners may play.

 

p.s -  Ashwin has county experience this time and is a thinking bowler. His success may or may not mean that other spinners will succeed in England.

 

 

[Straight Drive]

32 minutes ago, adi B said:

Yes it always was the criteria and always will be ,try to watch some test cricket before passing hollow judgements .

Ask any captain ,coach and the fast bowlers across the world and every one will tell you that in a long gruelling test series ,the main 3 pacers need breathers in a while to maintain their intensity throughout the day and so that their workload can be reduced in every test so as to protect them from injury and overburden. 

 

The best option is a pace bowling AR in SENA conditions who can fill in those 10-12 overs per innings and pick a wkt or 2  ,spinners hardly have much impact their and anyways every team plays with at least 1 spinner .now pandya has to improve as a bowler without a doubt but 2 wkts per test and avg of 35-37 should be enough to warrant a spot if the batting avg comes close to 35 .

 

Australia tried with watto,marsh ,saf with McLaren (after kallis went) ,England have luckily got stokes now,nzl tried with oram ,cairns etc now they are working with grandhome,Windies with holder.

So everyteam realizes the requirement of a fast bowling AR in at least  SENA conditions and they more or less stick with that funda with decent success .

 

Now comes the real point ,we need to either develop pandya or just throw him out if he aint performing but the team management realizes the value of a AR so they want to give him a good run before failing or developing into a proper cricketer ,there's absolutely no problem with this line of thinking and I personally support this thinking 

 

Watto was a much better bowler than Hardik Pandya.Even he got dropped few times in career and was asked to make comeback.Don't recollect exactly how many times he was dropped but it is probably more than twice.

 

Mclaren flopped and got dropped. Haven't checked records but I don't think McLaren played more than 10 tests. Dropped due to flopping as an all-rounder.

 

Chris Cairns was a proper all-rounder. And he had a achieved good career for an all rounder.

 

CDG like Hardik is WIP.

 

Holder is one who is more likely to become a proper all rounder than many across various countries. Sammy was tried but dropped due to failure in bowling as well as batting. 

 

Hardik too is WIP but needs lot of work.And if he does not performs then he can be dropped and comeback is always an option. Sometimes players need that to come out as better cricketer.But then the runs and wickets have to be taken at acceptable average and sr. Else he will have more breaks in career.The point you make that one should be given before being asked to go back to domestic and make a comeback post improvements  is a valid one. Don't think hardik will be dropped once for all.It will be team requirement if he is rested in next one or two tests. If he is not picked after 15-20 tests for series then its like getting dropped and asking to make comeback.