Sam Curran what an all rounder

[Lannister]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

what are u talking about

In SA n ENG most days 4 bowler did job coz wkts were very spicy 

Few days pandya was needed, in which he did well 

 

HE came n took a fifer in 3rd test in a spell and won u the game

2nd test he bowled extremely tight and took 3 wkts infact check his stats it was best among 5 bowler

In Sa 1st test when their a opening partnership he came n took both openers wkts 

 

SO if he is getting 5 chances he is doing well in 2-3 , no one will deilver everytime 

There's a reason why we have won only two games in SA and ENG because this is the only time when our 5th bowler did something significant with the ball. We cannot compromise with the series result hoping for Pandya to come good. Any bowler will do a better job than him and that to on a consistent basis. 

 

Until and unless, Pandya improves his bowling and become more consistent there should be no place for him in Test cricket. Because we don't even need him to win Test matches. 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

England or NZ wnt throw root or williamson

but they are their best no 3,4 bat etc. The question would be is pandya the best no 6 bat oor no 4 or 5 bowler.

[Vilander]

35 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

In England.

4th Test - Average speed 85 mph, top speed 90 mph

3rd test - Average speed 86 mph, top speed 90 mph

2nd test - Average speed 84 mph top speed 90 mph

1st test - Average speed 83 mph, top speed 86 mph

 

In South Africa

1st Test - Average speed 84 mph, top speed 89 mph

2nd Test - Average speed 83 mph, top speed 88 mph

 

Basically he is a 83-85 mph bowler in Tests and can bowl 90 mph (145+ not just 140+,and no its not a couple of 140+ deliveries, there are a dozen of those or more in each match).

 

Should he bowl better? Definitely.

 

With bat, he averages 62 in Asia, 29 away (much like some of our front line batsmen) and picks a couple of wickets each tests bowling 10-12 overs. IMO thats decent enough for now as the 5th bowler but as he plays more, he has to do better with both bat and especially ball, else his career won't be long.

 

 

somehow he not sum of his part when it comes to match winning performances. Above info makes him once in a generation talent, he can improve his overseas average though, wonder what his bowling average and strikerate is.

[Lannister]

28 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

No its not the way you put it,all the teams playing at home are preparing pitches to their liking, specially the SENA teams they prepare bowling friendly surfaces

Pandyas presence gives the team needed cushion where our top.bats become quite incompetent

Lets remind you the only test which we won in England was mainly due to Pandyas bowling heroics

The tests which we lost had much to do with the so called SENA experts 

But the problem he sucks with the bat as well. lol.

When we need some support from his bowling he fails there and when we need something from his batting, he also fails there. One or two random performances don't count. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

but they are their best no 3,4 bat etc. The question would be is pandya the best no 6 bat oor no 4 or 5 bowler.

pandya is our best all rounder 

n we need an all rounder at 6 not specialist 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, SK_IH said:

firstly whats this BS about 2nd skill, there is no need of a player if his primary skill is not good enough, forget the 2nd skill.

 

coming to batting order, they will be changed if they dont improve but they are primarily batsman who have scored runs in domestic cricket to warrant that spot unlike Pandya who has mediocre numbers and is playing on potential.

 

for winning test matches you need quality and not gimmicky all rounders to give comfort to main bowelrs. so, if they are none available, hard luck, try to win with you have got, instead of wasting a spot.

 

 

2nd skill is needed to balance team

Our side of 2000s had sachin , sehwag, ganguly

WI had viv who cud roll his arm over

Aus had waugh bros, clarke & later watson

 

Why do u wanna break our bowlers down, in India its easy coz spinners bowl bulk of over so we can play 4 bowler but overseas ur seamers have to bowl bulk of overs. Do u want bumrah to bowl 40-40 overs in each test and then play odi and t20 and expect him to be bowling at full steam all time. 

 

After ages we have got bowler who can bowl 140+ so its important to manage their work load in everyway 

thats why u need 5th bowler. Does any of our batsman bowl???? Nooo

 

No one becomes quality in 10 test matches it takes time. Go n check most all rounder record in their 1st 10-15 test . 

 

Tht mediocre guy showed more application while batting then those domestic achievers 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, Lannister said:

There's a reason why we have won only two games in SA and ENG because this is the only time when our 5th bowler did something significant with the ball. We cannot compromise with the series result hoping for Pandya to come good. Any bowler will do a better job than him and that to on a consistent basis. 

 

Until and unless, Pandya improves his bowling and become more consistent there should be no place for him in Test cricket. Because we don't even need him to win Test matches. 

We also won a game in eng in 2014 with having all rounder like binny 

 

Pandya bowling will improve when he bowls much and becomes more exp....thats not going to happen by benching him 

 

The only test we won in eng was highly becoz of pandya so we need anyone who can contribute

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, Lannister said:

But the problem he sucks with the bat as well. lol.

When we need some support from his bowling he fails there and when we need something from his batting, he also fails there. One or two random performances don't count. 

Bhai team is craving for a seamer allrounder,we cant have four bowlers toiling hard in an off day(when opposition bats are all over us)and get injured,Pandya is not the only problem

Which genuine batsman would you play in place of him?

Or which genuine bowler would you play for him?

I think its matter of time we find his like for like replacement

But by the time if he improves by leaps and bounds ,we will be the only ones who will be benefitted

Edited November 15, 2018 by Suhaan

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No one becomes quality in 10 test matches it takes time. Go n check most all rounder record in their 1st 10-15 test . 

except the thread is on Sam Curran for the very same reason and he is a 20 year old to boot.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

except the thread is on Sam Curran for the very same reason and he is a 20 year old to boot.

Again to early to say anything

PPl have started with a bang and declined

PPl have been late bloomers

 

Sam curran is doing well gr8, but shud concern us .....we shud look at our problem n solutions to it

[Global.Baba]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

pandya is our best all rounder 

n we need an all rounder at 6 not specialist 

Once again that statement makes no sense. Before we discovered Pandya, Binny was the best allrounder in the country and before that Laxmi Ratan Shukla, Reetinder Sodhi and Sanjay Bangar. Does it mean they should have played every game?

 

Simple you pick the best player and then maybe if his other skill is good enough he will jump ahead of others competing for the spot case in point-Moeen Ali.

 

I don’t know a lot about players on the English domestic circuit. If Moeen Ali is the best spinner in the country then good for them, if there are others marginally better than him then sure, he deserves a spot ahead of others based on his batting talent but it will be a crime if they have a Swann/Murali in their domestics and they play Moeen Ali for his “allround” ability. Simple.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Global.Baba

[Global.Baba]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

Bhai team is craving for a seamer allrounder,we cant have four bowlers toiling hard in an off day(when opposition bats are all over us)and get injured,Pandya is not the only problem

Which genuine batsman would you play in place of him?

Or which genuine bowler would you play for him?

I think its matter of time we find his like for like replacement

But by the time if he improves by leaps and bounds ,we will be the only ones who will be benefitted

Bhai,In test cricket I would pick Bhuvaneshwar Kumar as the 5th bowler if required.

 

As much as Bhuvi the LOI bowler disgusts me, he can be accommodated in test cricket.

 

Combo Attack of Bumrah,Ishant,Bhuvi,Shami/Umesh,Ashwin/Jadeja/Kuldeep looks more threatening than a combo with Pandya in it.

 

Pretty sure Bhuvi will score as many runs as Pandya if not more.

 

On a seaming green mamba or a  turning dustbowl you don’t need 5 bowlers. If 4 bowlers cannot get you wickets on such pitches you have a problem. On such pitches a 6th specialist batsman helps.

 

Now if Pandya outscores a top order batsman then the problem is with that batsman and he needs to be replaced . It is injustice to all those talented batsmen sitting out when Pandya keeps getting a shot ahead of them.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Global.Baba

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, Suhaan said:

No its not the way you put it,all the teams playing at home are preparing pitches to their liking, specially the SENA teams they prepare bowling friendly surfaces

Pandyas presence gives the team needed cushion where our top.bats become quite incompetent

Lets remind you the only test which we won in England was mainly due to Pandyas bowling heroics

The tests which we lost had much to do with the so called SENA experts 

Noone in their right mind will blame the tour failures on Pandya. This discussion about him being an allrounder and how good he can be in future.

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Again to early to say anything

PPl have started with a bang and declined

PPl have been late bloomers

 

Sam curran is doing well gr8, but shud concern us .....we shud look at our problem n solutions to it

no you took it differently, what is mean is what if a genuinely good No6 bat is not being tried, or a geneuinly good no 4 bowler that can defend and make some runs that is not being tried because we want Hardick to become kallis. 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Global.Baba said:

Combo Attack of Bumrah,Ishant,Bhuvi,Shami/Umesh,Ashwin/Jadeja/Kuldeep looks more threatening than a combo with Pandya in it.

And If you play all 8 of them, the bowling attack will appear even more threatening .... but this is not about appearing threatening but finding the right balance and managing the negative impact of diminishing returns 

[Global.Baba]

Just now, zen said:

And If you play all 8 of them, the bowling attack will appear even more threatening .... but this is not about appearing threatening but finding the right balance and managing the negative impact of diminishing returns 

4 bowlers are enough on green tracks and dustbowls. On flat tracks, Pandya’s bowling will be toothless, so if you want 5 bowlers might as well go with a bowling allrounder

[zen]

18 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

4 bowlers are enough on green tracks and dustbowls. On flat tracks, Pandya’s bowling will be toothless, so if you want 5 bowlers might as well go with a bowling allrounder

It depends upon how optimized the batting and bowling is

 

We played an extra batsman in the 5th test in Eng and that was one of our worst defeats. While Pandya actually won Ind a test to give some sort of respectability to the scorecard .... the specialist batsmen are just not good enough 

 

The 5th bowler usually bowls 8-10 overs so playing 5 bowlers may not be optimal. And if you optimize the bowling, you have your 4 best bowlers per form and conditions in the 11. The difference in effectiveness b/w 5th bowler and AR is not huge .... similarly, the difference in effectiveness b/w the 6th or 7th batsman and AR

 

moreover if the extra specialist batsman gets a low score, he is out of the game. Similarly, the specialist 5th bowler if he is bowling only 8-10 overs. The AR helps to cover for those scenarios esp when we already have 5 specialist batsmen + 4 specialist bowlers + a WK who can bat too

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by zen

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Once again that statement makes no sense. Before we discovered Pandya, Binny was the best allrounder in the country and before that Laxmi Ratan Shukla, Reetinder Sodhi and Sanjay Bangar. Does it mean they should have played every game?

1st- we didnt need them to play coz we had saurav, sachin , sehwag to roll their arms

Again ur missing the point , its the team need. Had we had atleast someone like ganguly i wud have said ok lets think about him . Nahin hia kya kru, we need some overs from 5th bowler.....not to many coz he ll be underused most days but atleast need around 10 for sure

 

We still played bangar- he had a good role in win in headingly

Binny saved 1st test for us in 2014 eng tour and was part of 2nd in lords which we won

 

And all the names u mentioned never had the quality of pandya. Who among them can even touch 140k .....Bangar had good defensive game as batsman so he gave value to the team till someone better came along. 

 

Neways we ll be playing 6 batsman this time in australia and a lot of questions will be answered 

 

 

 

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Bhai,In test cricket I would pick Bhuvaneshwar Kumar as the 5th bowler if required.

 

As much as Bhuvi the LOI bowler disgusts me, he can be accommodated in test cricket.

 

Combo Attack of Bumrah,Ishant,Bhuvi,Shami/Umesh,Ashwin/Jadeja/Kuldeep looks more threatening than a combo with Pandya in it.

 

Pretty sure Bhuvi will score as many runs as Pandya if not more.

 

On a seaming green mamba or a  turning dustbowl you don’t need 5 bowlers. If 4 bowlers cannot get you wickets on such pitches you have a problem. On such pitches a 6th specialist batsman helps.

 

Now if Pandya outscores a top order batsman then the problem is with that batsman and he needs to be replaced . It is injustice to all those talented batsmen sitting out when Pandya keeps getting a shot ahead of them.

Bro,even Im not sold on Pandya as of now,but he attracts too much of wrath which is quite unnecessary

I sincerely believe and hope if he doesn't performs in upcoming tours(not more than 1) I would want him to be dropped ,we cannot drag ourselves as a team with tried and tested failures but then i think that is quite wrong on part of some here who  think he was the only reason we lost a golden opportunity to register a series win in Eng which I think was a collective failure

[putrevus]

^^^ Has Pandya shown growth as a player and how would you project him in next couple of years.For me I have not seen any growth as a cricketer in Pandya.He has remained a bits and pieces player so far , like many other stop gap bits and pieces players we had in past.

 

Jadeja started out as a bits and pieces player but once he made his test debut , he has transformed himself into a very good test bowler atleast in subcontinent conditions.Now Jadeja walks in to Indian team as bowler alone in subcontinent conditions and with his batting as bonus along with his brilliant fielding, he has become a vital cog for this team.

 

What is Pandya's projection, he has been given consistent run based on potential.