Congress' Sajjan Kumar jailed for life in 1984 anti Sikh riots case

[JourneyMan]

On 12/22/2018 at 8:51 AM, Stradlater said:

Who cares about NRI Sikhs anyway.

Yahan khud ki population nahin samhal rahi. As long as they aren't Indian citizens , I couldn't care about their ideological motives as long as they don't harm India's security.

 

If Canadian Sikhs feel closer to Pakistani expats , good for them. They share a common culture after all and it's natural to have some affinity.

 

What I don't like though is the blatant hatred for Hindus displayed by certain Khalistani types. Now that is quite worrying indeed.

 

How is Khalistan movement doing in Canada btw @Under_Score

Do they have some sympathy on the ground level or have simply shrunkend to a group of Internet warriors?

We can generalize that comment and say that hatred of any religious group by another one is inappropriate full stop. Once Indians accept this, we can move on to real issues. 

[Stradlater]

1 hour ago, JourneyMan said:

We can generalize that comment and say that hatred of any religious group by another one is inappropriate full stop. Once Indians accept this, we can move on to real issues. 

Yes I agree with you.

[Muloghonto]

On 12/24/2018 at 1:10 PM, Ranvir said:

Punjab has the lowest hunger levels out of all Indian states, it produces a better quantity of food for the number of citizens that live there than any other state in India. It does not matter about total. It is like GDP per capita. I've already explained to you in another thread about proportions but it seems that maths is not your strong point.

 

Haryanvis are not Punjabis, they have their own distinct culture and language which is more similar to Rajasthan than it is to Punjab's.

Haryanvis till mid 1960s WERE Punjabis, as Haryana was part of the state of Punjab. That is a fact. 

On 12/24/2018 at 1:10 PM, Ranvir said:

There are Sikh terrorists who are roaming free in Canada and causing carnage in India today? Can you name me one incident in the last 20 years. GO ON AND DO THAT. You won't find one. 

Oh so, Sikh terrorists who are roaming free are fine, because they caused terrorism 30 years ago and so since they are not doing anything recently, their crimes should be forgiven and they should not be outed ? Yes or no please. 

On 12/24/2018 at 1:10 PM, Ranvir said:

Are Sikhs in Canada some sort of secret society like the Freemasons that they can prevent people in their ranks from being prosecuted by the Canadian government? 

They refuse to testify against these terrorists. That is the main problem. 

On 12/24/2018 at 1:10 PM, Ranvir said:

 

You are suffering from a major case of paranoia and have major delusions. The likes of the Badal family in Punjab are far richer than NRI Sikhs and there are plenty of other wealthy land owners. You are seriously twisted if you think NRI Sikhs want to enslave Indian Sikhs. Show me EVIDENCE of this.

The average NRI Sikh is 100 times richer than the AVERAGE Punjabis. The reason its the NRI Sikhs who are pro-Khalistan and hardly anyone from INdia, is because the NRI Sikhs realize that if Punjab became independent, they get first dibs of gobbling up all the land in Punjab and becoming wealthy landowners IN Punjab...just like Pakjabis have done in Pakistan part of Punjab. That is a clear-cut incentive to support seperatism. 

[Ranvir]

9 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Haryanvis till mid 1960s WERE Punjabis, as Haryana was part of the state of Punjab. That is a fact. 

Oh so, Sikh terrorists who are roaming free are fine, because they caused terrorism 30 years ago and so since they are not doing anything recently, their crimes should be forgiven and they should not be outed ? Yes or no please. 

They refuse to testify against these terrorists. That is the main problem. 

The average NRI Sikh is 100 times richer than the AVERAGE Punjabis. The reason its the NRI Sikhs who are pro-Khalistan and hardly anyone from INdia, is because the NRI Sikhs realize that if Punjab became independent, they get first dibs of gobbling up all the land in Punjab and becoming wealthy landowners IN Punjab...just like Pakjabis have done in Pakistan part of Punjab. That is a clear-cut incentive to support seperatism. 

You’re a simpleton if you think Haryanvis are Punjabis. They have their own distinct language and culture, it doesn’t matter if the two states were once together. That’s just how the British drew their map. If an invader comes to India and puts Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh together as one state does that mean Tamils and Telegu people are the same? Konkani people living  in Maharashtra are not the same as Marathi people in Maharashtra.

 

Name me SPECIFIC cases of when the Canadian government brought cases against Sikh terrorists to court and the general Sikh population in Canada refused to testify. Show me EVIDENCE of this. Show me EVIDENCE of people being called to testify but refusing.

 

What is stopping NRI Sikhs from carrying out this devious act (that you have constructed in your mind) now? Why don’t the NRI Sikhs just buy up all of the land now? Punjab is not like Himachal Pradesh or Kashmir that outsiders cannot buy land. What is magically going to change if Khalistan was to be formed? Will the land suddenly be full of gold?

[velu]

off-topic:-

tamils are really lucky after what happened in 1991

[Muloghonto]

6 hours ago, Ranvir said:

You’re a simpleton if you think Haryanvis are Punjabis. They have their own distinct language and culture, it doesn’t matter if the two states were once together. That’s just how the British drew their map. If an invader comes to India and puts Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh together as one state does that mean Tamils and Telegu people are the same? Konkani people living  in Maharashtra are not the same as Marathi people in Maharashtra.

LOL. They were in the same STATE for 300 years and they learnt the same LANGUAGES for 300 years. Education syllabus are relevant towards the STATE and the constitution of India says that STATES languages are equal and primary to be taught to their natives of the STATE. 
So prior to late 1960s, Punjab, made up of Haryana and Punjab of today, was perfectly justified in asking everyone to learn Punjabi AND Hindi. 

6 hours ago, Ranvir said:

 

Name me SPECIFIC cases of when the Canadian government brought cases against Sikh terrorists to court and the general Sikh population in Canada refused to testify. Show me EVIDENCE of this. Show me EVIDENCE of people being called to testify but refusing.

Air India bombing case. 

6 hours ago, Ranvir said:

 

What is stopping NRI Sikhs from carrying out this devious act (that you have constructed in your mind) now?

because India has 1.3 billion people who have equal rights to buy land all across India. Ie, competition. Punjabi NRI are small fish in a big pond with lots of other small fish called rest of Indian NRIs. 

6 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Why don’t the NRI Sikhs just buy up all of the land now? Punjab is not like Himachal Pradesh or Kashmir that outsiders cannot buy land. What is magically going to change if Khalistan was to be formed? Will the land suddenly be full of gold?

What is magically going to happen, when any new sovereign entity is made, is the ethnic majority of that sovereign entity - foreign or in-house, gets first dibs for land purchase. This is why Israel, once formed, had land gobbled up from the rich jews showing up from UK and Russia way, way more than surrounding Palestinians who are right over there. Same thing will happen with Khalistan, which is why NRI Punjabis are pro-khalistan. Its in their self interest. 

[Ranvir]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

LOL. They were in the same STATE for 300 years and they learnt the same LANGUAGES for 300 years. Education syllabus are relevant towards the STATE and the constitution of India says that STATES languages are equal and primary to be taught to their natives of the STATE. 
So prior to late 1960s, Punjab, made up of Haryana and Punjab of today, was perfectly justified in asking everyone to learn Punjabi AND Hindi. 

Air India bombing case. 

because India has 1.3 billion people who have equal rights to buy land all across India. Ie, competition. Punjabi NRI are small fish in a big pond with lots of other small fish called rest of Indian NRIs. 

What is magically going to happen, when any new sovereign entity is made, is the ethnic majority of that sovereign entity - foreign or in-house, gets first dibs for land purchase. This is why Israel, once formed, had land gobbled up from the rich jews showing up from UK and Russia way, way more than surrounding Palestinians who are right over there. Same thing will happen with Khalistan, which is why NRI Punjabis are pro-khalistan. Its in their self interest. 

Again you are talking out of your backside. Punjab and Haryana were not the SAME STATE for 300 years. Unlike Bengal which was ruled for almost 200 years by the British, most of present day Punjab and North West India (excluding Haryana) was only ruled by the British for 100 years and prior to them arriving Punjabis and Haryanvis had nothing to do with each other, so stop this 300 year nonsense.

Most Indians were completely illiterate in 1947, imagine the case in the 1700s and 1800s so why would a person in Amritsar want to learn the language spoken in Faridabad and vice versa? Furthermore the official language of Ranjit Singh's Punjab was Farsi and the British Punjab's official language was Urdu. Hindi and Punjabi were never official in pre independence Punjab. The Indian constitution was made after 1947 not 300 years ago. Go to Amritsar and Faridabad and ask the people if they are the same to each other and both will say NO. People in Ambala and other parts of bordering Northern Haryana may be Punjabi but they stated their mother tongue was Hindi for political reasons and they do not consider themselves Haryanvis (speakers of Haryanvi language). I am talking about proper Haryanvis - think jaats. The British made up several maps and lines across the world, grouping different tribes together who were completely different and separating people who were the same.

 

Give me evidence that in the Air India bombing case that non militant Sikhs refused to testify. Come on Mr Encyclopedia, you usually have links coming out of your backside but have given me no evidence.

India has made a TERRORIST Chief Minister of MADHYA PRADESH! He is roaming free and is living the good life. Any civilised country does not allow such things to happen. Who can respect a country like that? If you say Sikhs in Canada are Anti India then using your logic the Indian government is ANTI SIKH as they have not convicted the likes of Tytler and Kamal Nath and have in fact elevated their positions in government.

 

You have made a stupid comparison by comparing Punjab to Israel. Most of the people in present day Israel immigrated from Europe and various Arab countries after Israel was formed. It is a nation made up of recent immigration. They overran the Palestinian population through sheer mass immigration and forced the Palestinians out. That is how they acquired land.

This cannot happen in Punjab as the majority of the people there are Sikhs, it will never be an immigrant majority nation. Honestly is that the best you can do? The land is already owned by the current land owners. You cannot force people off their land without military might, so how are Sikhs in Canada, UK, USA going to do that? Are they going to bring in tanks and fighter jets?

 

If you want to make comparisons with Israel you could say that the Jews abroad help the Jews in Israel, just like the Sikhs abroad help the Sikhs in Punjab. Are there Jews in the USA buying up land and exploiting the Jews in Israel? Give me evidence. I want land ownership records. 

 

Seeing how much nonsense you have spoken in this thread and how you have displayed your lack of information and factual knowledge, it has made me realise that you must also be talking nonsense in other threads where you claim to be speaking the truth. You try to present things as facts but there are so many errors in your statements and half of what you write are just the theories of a delusional mad man.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

Again you are talking out of your backside. Punjab and Haryana were not the SAME STATE for 300 years. Unlike Bengal which was ruled for almost 200 years by the British, most of present day Punjab and North West India (excluding Haryana) was only ruled by the British for 100 years and prior to them arriving Punjabis and Haryanvis had nothing to do with each other, so stop this 300 year nonsense.

You should know by now not to challenge me when it comes to history. From Sher Shah & Akbar's time, the Sutlej-Beas rivers formed the western border of Delhi Subah, with everything west of it up to Peshawar forming Lahore Subah. 
South of it, up to Sindh and inclusive of Bahawalpur formed the Multan subah. This was the organization of Mughal empire from Akbar, till independence, with a quick 25-30 year blip of re-organization under the short-lived Sikh Empire of Ranjit Singh. 

Ludhiana, Jullunder, Mandi- these are historic Delhi Subah regions. 

 

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

Most Indians were completely illiterate in 1947, imagine the case in the 1700s and 1800s so why would a person in Amritsar want to learn the language spoken in Faridabad and vice versa?

Don't care what the person of 1700 did, my point is, our constitution, written in 1948, said inhabitants of the states will have EQUAL and FIRST rights to learning the dominant language of the state. From 1947-mid 1960s, Punjab+Haryana = state of Punjab.

Therefore, 'hindi being forced' is a red herring, it was in our bloody constitution that everyone agreed to, including the representatives FROM Punjab province. 

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

 

Give me evidence that in the Air India bombing case that non militant Sikhs refused to testify. Come on Mr Encyclopedia, you usually have links coming out of your backside but have given me no evidence.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SI-2006-71/FullText.html?wbdisable=true

 

Here you go. Not a single Indo-Canadian Sikh stepped up to testify. 

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

India has made a TERRORIST Chief Minister of MADHYA PRADESH! He is roaming free and is living the good life. Any civilised country does not allow such things to happen. Who can respect a country like that? If you say Sikhs in Canada are Anti India then using your logic the Indian government is ANTI SIKH as they have not convicted the likes of Tytler and Kamal Nath and have in fact elevated their positions in government.

This thread is a case in point that Indian justice system is slow, but gets the job done eventually. 

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

You have made a stupid comparison by comparing Punjab to Israel. Most of the people in present day Israel immigrated from Europe and various Arab countries after Israel was formed. It is a nation made up of recent immigration. They overran the Palestinian population through sheer mass immigration and forced the Palestinians out. That is how they acquired land.

Yes, but most of the LAND in Israel was gobbled up by rich jews migrating from USA, UK and Russia. Because they got to play big fish in a small pond, same as NRI Sikhs would. 

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

This cannot happen in Punjab as the majority of the people there are Sikhs, it will never be an immigrant majority nation. Honestly is that the best you can do? The land is already owned by the current land owners. You cannot force people off their land without military might, so how are Sikhs in Canada, UK, USA going to do that? Are they going to bring in tanks and fighter jets?

Nobody gets forced off the land bud. People make offers that poor people find tempting and buy up the land. This is exactly how the rich elites of Pakjabi military owns bulk majority of farmland in Pakistan Punjab. 

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

 

Seeing how much nonsense you have spoken in this thread and how you have displayed your lack of information and factual knowledge, it has made me realise that you must also be talking nonsense in other threads where you claim to be speaking the truth. You try to present things as facts but there are so many errors in your statements and half of what you write are just the theories of a delusional mad man.

Says the guy who didn't even know that from Akbar to 1947, with a tiny blip of Ranjit Singh's empire, most of Indian Punjab and Haryana were always part of the same Mughal subah and British province. 

[Ranvir]

26 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You should know by now not to challenge me when it comes to history. From Sher Shah & Akbar's time, the Sutlej-Beas rivers formed the western border of Delhi Subah, with everything west of it up to Peshawar forming Lahore Subah. 
South of it, up to Sindh and inclusive of Bahawalpur formed the Multan subah. This was the organization of Mughal empire from Akbar, till independence, with a quick 25-30 year blip of re-organization under the short-lived Sikh Empire of Ranjit Singh. 

Ludhiana, Jullunder, Mandi- these are historic Delhi Subah regions. 

 

Don't care what the person of 1700 did, my point is, our constitution, written in 1948, said inhabitants of the states will have EQUAL and FIRST rights to learning the dominant language of the state. From 1947-mid 1960s, Punjab+Haryana = state of Punjab.

Therefore, 'hindi being forced' is a red herring, it was in our bloody constitution that everyone agreed to, including the representatives FROM Punjab province. 

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SI-2006-71/FullText.html?wbdisable=true

 

Here you go. Not a single Indo-Canadian Sikh stepped up to testify. 

This thread is a case in point that Indian justice system is slow, but gets the job done eventually. 

Yes, but most of the LAND in Israel was gobbled up by rich jews migrating from USA, UK and Russia. Because they got to play big fish in a small pond, same as NRI Sikhs would. 

Nobody gets forced off the land bud. People make offers that poor people find tempting and buy up the land. This is exactly how the rich elites of Pakjabi military owns bulk majority of farmland in Pakistan Punjab. 

Says the guy who didn't even know that from Akbar to 1947, with a tiny blip of Ranjit Singh's empire, most of Indian Punjab and Haryana were always part of the same Mughal subah and British province. 

I can challenge you and will continue to challenge you because you are full of nonsense and never answer my questions.

 

So you admit that only in 1948 did the government want to make Hindi and Punjabi the official languages of older Punjab. The Sikh Punjabis did not want to learn Hindi and the Hindu Haryanvis did not want to learn Punjabi because both languages were foreign to both groups and they have no attachments to each other’s language. The actual Hindu Punjabis threw their lot in with the Haryanvi Hindus on religious basis and I have no problem with them doing that, their choice. I as a Punjabi don’t feel that Haryanvis are the same people as me, I cannot understand their language, their culture is different to Punjabi culture. Their culture is more similar to Rajasthani. I don’t care which districts were in Punjab the two groups are different people. Gorkhas living in Darjeeling are not Bengali despite the fact that Darjeeling is in West Bengal. Maps, lines and districts don’t matter.

 

The Indian justice system is a joke. The CHIEF MINISTER in one of the most populated states of India is a terrorist. What do you have to say about that?

 

You don’t think Palestinians were forced off their land? What kind of idiot are you? You never heard of the massacre of Deir Yassin? How about Al Nakba? The Palestinians left Israel in mass numbers - here you go Mr Encyclopedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

 

I already explained to you that the majority of Jews in Israel are all immigrants so of course the foreign Jews took up the land because most Jews in Israel have foreign origins. Prior to World War 2 FAR more Jews lived outside of Israel than those who lived there, that is not the case with Sikhs as Sikhs who live abroad are very small in number compared to those who live in Punjab. Stop comparing apples to Oranges.

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

I can challenge you and will continue to challenge you because you are full of nonsense and never answer my questions.

 

So you admit that only in 1948 did the government want to make Hindi and Punjabi the official languages of older Punjab.

Are you seriously slow or blind ? I said that is what our CONSTITUTION demanded. In what world does one have to specify that when someone says constitution of India, it means since 1947 and not British Raj ?

5 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

The Sikh Punjabis did not want to learn Hindi and the Hindu Haryanvis did not want to learn Punjabi because both languages were foreign to both groups and they have no attachments to each other’s language.

Too bad. The law is the law. And its not about Sikh Punjabis vs Hindu Haryanvis, its Punjabi speaking Punjabis and Hindi speaking Punjabis. Punjab today still has 30-40% Hindu population. 

And yes, that is why the state was further partitioned. But you cannot say  you were forced to learn Hindi by the government unfairly - its in the bloody constitution, its fair. Simple. 

 

5 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

The actual Hindu Punjabis threw their lot in with the Haryanvi Hindus on religious basis and I have no problem with them doing that, their choice. I as a Punjabi don’t feel that Haryanvis are the same people as me, I cannot understand their language, their culture is different to Punjabi culture. Their culture is more similar to Rajasthani. I don’t care which districts were in Punjab the two groups are different people. Gorkhas living in Darjeeling are not Bengali despite the fact that Darjeeling is in West Bengal. Maps, lines and districts don’t matter.

I don't care what YOU think or what YOU have been brainwashed into thinking, i am simply pointing out that entire Haryana and most of Indian Punjab was one province - either as Delhi Subah under the Mughals from Akbar's time or under the British, with only a 25-30 year blip under Ranjit Singh's Sikh Empire.

 

It *IS* the same land. We have historical proof of this, i can provide maps of this too. So your comment 'we were not the same land, British put us together' is 100% false. Ludhiana, Jullunder have been part of Delhi Subah since time of Akbar. This is a fact. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

 

The Indian justice system is a joke. The CHIEF MINISTER in one of the most populated states of India is a terrorist. What do you have to say about that?

What i have to say about that is prove your charges or you may be called out for slander. Simple. 

 

5 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

You don’t think Palestinians were forced off their land? What kind of idiot are you? You never heard of the massacre of Deir Yassin? How about Al Nakba? The Palestinians left Israel in mass numbers - here you go Mr Encyclopedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

I do. But the rich jews also bought most of the land from the Palestinians & poorer Israeli jews themselves. You know very little history, its clear. The entire kerfuffle in Palestine started in 1920s when rich jews from Britain were buying up land from the poorer Palestinian arabs in the first place.

 

[Ranvir]

54 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Are you seriously slow or blind ? I said that is what our CONSTITUTION demanded. In what world does one have to specify that when someone says constitution of India, it means since 1947 and not British Raj ?

Too bad. The law is the law. And its not about Sikh Punjabis vs Hindu Haryanvis, its Punjabi speaking Punjabis and Hindi speaking Punjabis. Punjab today still has 30-40% Hindu population. 

And yes, that is why the state was further partitioned. But you cannot say  you were forced to learn Hindi by the government unfairly - its in the bloody constitution, its fair. Simple. 

 

I don't care what YOU think or what YOU have been brainwashed into thinking, i am simply pointing out that entire Haryana and most of Indian Punjab was one province - either as Delhi Subah under the Mughals from Akbar's time or under the British, with only a 25-30 year blip under Ranjit Singh's Sikh Empire.

 

It *IS* the same land. We have historical proof of this, i can provide maps of this too. So your comment 'we were not the same land, British put us together' is 100% false. Ludhiana, Jullunder have been part of Delhi Subah since time of Akbar. This is a fact. 

 

 

What i have to say about that is prove your charges or you may be called out for slander. Simple. 

 

I do. But the rich jews also bought most of the land from the Palestinians & poorer Israeli jews themselves. You know very little history, its clear. The entire kerfuffle in Palestine started in 1920s when rich jews from Britain were buying up land from the poorer Palestinian arabs in the first place.

 

I have never stated that Sikhs were forced to learn Hindi. Can you show me where I said that? All I said was that Punjabis and Haryanvis are not the same people. Don’t ever call a Haryanvi a Punjabi, they will not like that. Just like a Gorkha is not a Bengali, a Haryanvi is not a Punjabi you simpleton.

 

The problem in Palestine started when the influential Rothschilds demanded a seperate homeland for the Jews after World War 1. The British promised it to them. They didn’t need to buy anything. Look up the Balfour Agreement. On the one hand you are saying that British Jews bought land from Palestinian Muslims and Jews in the 1920s which is before the formation of Israel and you are somehow correlating this with what would happen AFTER Khalistan is formed. Surely Sikhs would be buying massive amounts of lands before Khalistan was formed if you are saying they would behave like British Jews allegedly did.

 

Show me evidence that the Foreign Jews made the life of Israeli Jews miserable. 

 

I will be back with evidence of Kamal Nath’s involvement.

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, Ranvir said:

I have never stated that Sikhs were forced to learn Hindi. Can you show me where I said that? All I said was that Punjabis and Haryanvis are not the same people. Don’t ever call a Haryanvi a Punjabi, they will not like that. Just like a Gorkha is not a Bengali, a Haryanvi is not a Punjabi you simpleton.

They were both Punjabis, by state designation. Do you get that ? Haryanvis may be different than Punjabis, but pre 1965 or so, Haryanvis were FROM Punjab. Just like Gorkhas are not Bengalis but Gorkhas in India are mostly FROM West Bengal. 

5 hours ago, Ranvir said:

The problem in Palestine started when the influential Rothschilds demanded a seperate homeland for the Jews after World War 1. The British promised it to them. They didn’t need to buy anything. Look up the Balfour Agreement. On the one hand you are saying that British Jews bought land from Palestinian Muslims and Jews in the 1920s which is before the formation of Israel and you are somehow correlating this with what would happen AFTER Khalistan is formed. Surely Sikhs would be buying massive amounts of lands before Khalistan was formed if you are saying they would behave like British Jews allegedly did.

My point is simple and you are getting twisted in knots. Just like with British Palestine, the British citizens had 'first dibs' to it and the rich British Jews (and some rich Russian jews who were living in UK at the time due to new commie revolution) bought up a lot of land, being 'big fish in small pond', so too would be an INCENTIVE for the NRI Punjabis for buying up land in 'Khalistan', should it ever come to pass. 

5 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Show me evidence that the Foreign Jews made the life of Israeli Jews miserable. 

Can't show you evidence for what i never claimed, bud. 

 

[Stradlater]

@Muloghonto Have you ever been to Haryana or known someone from the state?

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Stradlater said:

@Muloghonto Have you ever been to Haryana or known someone from the state?

Many times. One of my best friends from childhood lives in Ambala - pretty much every time i go back to India i make sure i go through IGIA and spend a day or two with him and his family. 

[Stradlater]

12 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Many times. One of my best friends from childhood lives in Ambala - pretty much every time i go back to India i make sure i go through IGIA and spend a day or two with him and his family. 

Then clearly you haven't been paying much attention. Haryanvis are not Punjabis. They have a distinct culture of their own with different language and customs. You can't label people based on the lines drawn on maps.

For instance Bharatpur in Rajasthan is culturally more closer to the Braj region which forms part of the modern Western UP. 

[Stradlater]

It's like calling Mirpuris as Kashmiris since they are part of Kashmir State even though in reality they are Punjabis in all but name.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Stradlater

[Muloghonto]

48 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Then clearly you haven't been paying much attention. Haryanvis are not Punjabis. They have a distinct culture of their own with different language and customs. You can't label people based on the lines drawn on maps.

For instance Bharatpur in Rajasthan is culturally more closer to the Braj region which forms part of the modern Western UP. 

Nobody said they are Punjabis. But until 1965, they were FROM Punjab. Because Haryana was part of Punjab. 
There is no 'unfairness' when the constitution says the state is obligated to teach its major languages to its native residents and state of Punjab from 1947-1965 goes ' we are nearly 50-50 Punjabi & Hindi speaker, so we are going to teach Hindi and Punjabi mandatory to all'. 

That was my whole point.  When Sikh Punjabis go ' they forced Hindi on us and it was unfair' I simply point out that they were forced to learn Hindi in the same way Tamils were forced to learn Malayali and Mallus were forced to learn Tamil till 1965, because Northern half of Kerala was part of Madras state. Nothing is unfair about the law stating that languages of the state must be taught to all and your state having multiple major language groups. 

 

Lines on the map are relevant in terms of what LAWS are applied to whom. Infact, that is the primary job of lines on the map, from city limits to state boundaries or international boundaries - the everyday use of it that affects ALL within those lines of the map, is the jurisdiction of law. 
 

[Ranvir]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Many times. One of my best friends from childhood lives in Ambala - pretty much every time i go back to India i make sure i go through IGIA and spend a day or two with him and his family. 

People from Ambala are mostly Punjabi Hindus.

 

You clearly stated that Haryanvis were Punjabis. Now you are saying you meant due to artificial lines on a map but not genuinely the same people.

 

It is good that the old Punjab was split up. Punjabis, Haryanvis and Himachali people have their own culture and language and should not be grouped together due to old maps.

[Muloghonto]

39 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

People from Ambala are mostly Punjabi Hindus.

 

You clearly stated that Haryanvis were Punjabis. Now you are saying you meant due to artificial lines on a map but not genuinely the same people.

They were from Punjab till 1965. Do you dispute this ? Yes/no please. 

Gorkhas are FROM West Bengal, if they are Indians. Do you dispute this ? Yes/no please ?

The line is not artificial, i have already said that most of Indian punjab and Haryana has been ONE PROVINCE since the days of Akbar, with only time not being part of same province from 1575 AD to 1965 is the 25-30 year period of Ranjit Singh's rule. 

Nothing artificial about being the same province/land for nearly 400 years. Its almost as long as Sikh religion itself being around. 

39 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

 

It is good that the old Punjab was split up. Punjabis, Haryanvis and Himachali people have their own culture and language and should not be grouped together due to old maps.

Having own culture or language is irrelevant to being grouped into a province or not. The primary job of the province is to govern efficiently. If its more efficient to group Haryana and Punjab together, go for it. If its more efficient to split up UP in 4 parts, go for it.

Provinces exist to serve as administrative assistant to the nation. Nothing more. The moment they are more trouble than they are helping the nation function, is the moment they get re-organized. 

[PBN]

Punjabis have got to be the most divided and confused bunch of people based on their religion in the last century.  Muslims and Hindus sacrificing their mother tongues ‘for the greater good’ despite both having legends in Punjabi literature. Punjabi Muslims favoring Urdu due to it being a ‘muslim’ language and Punjabi Hindus choosing Hindi for it being a ‘hindu’ language and for nationalism.  Sikhs choosing their mother tongue as  their liturgical language.

 

Prior to the breakup remapping of Punjab along linguistic linies, bordering cities of Haryana/Himachal have been Punjabi speaking areas or atleast had the influence of Punjabi like Una, Kangra, Solan and Ambala, Kurukshetra, Karnal, Sirsa,etc.  Some have argued that some  Punjabi speaking areas were wrongly given to Haryana.  Then, there was the case of Hindu Punjabis whose mother tongue was obviously Punjabi incorrectly chose to write Hindi as their mother tongue during the division of Punjab.  Not to forget the ads in newspapers telling Hindus to state Hindi as their mother tongue during that time.   The areas bordering Rajasthan/UP obviously are a different ball game altogether culturally and language wise.

 

Haryana for its hate for the Punjabi language had Tamil as one of its official languages until a few years back.  Just goes to show officially, the divide and hatred for the Punjabi language despite Punjabi influence in the bordering cities of Punjab.  Let’s even forget Punjabi, despite Haryanvi and Pahari languages (which are lot more closer to Punjabi ) being their mother tongue, the Hindu majority Haryana and Himachal chose Hindi as their official languages. Meanwhile, Hindi has always enjoyed freedom in Punjab.

 

As for Muloghonto, the guy reeks of insecurity whenever it comes to Punjabis and Sikhs.  It’s quite amusing to see him fabricate conspiracy stories  like the famous Laal Topi from Pakistan and lose his marbles.  Pity the gullible ICF will actually believe his fabrications i.e the top ones I can recall is him boasting of more Bengali noble prize winners in science and making fun of Punjabis when in truth Punjabis actually have higher nobel prize winners in that area.   This guy will probably stop rating Kohli and Bumrah once he finds out both have Punjabi backgrounds.  

 

Public Service Announcement for others regarding Mulo

@Ranvir @Under_Score @Singh bling @rageaddict ,etc

there’s a saying don’t argue with a fool. 

ਮੂਰਖੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਲੁਝੀਐ ॥੧੯॥: Moorkhai naal na lujheeai ||19||: Don’t argue with a fool |

 

Let him live in  a fool’s paradise.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by PBN