Do you want a ban upon RSS Rallies, just like ban on Friday Prayers of Muslims?

[Alam_dar]

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

@Alam_dar that's just one park. There are many other public places in Noida where they were allowed. Hell I did a simple Google search and it said that Muslim offered prayers in nearby public parks in the same sector. May be there was some other reason with that particular park in question. 

There is no place to pray within the radius of 5 km of this park. 

Link

 

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

And Noida is one city. India is a huge country. Everywhere I have lived my life, 5 am azaan and Friday sermons have been a constant fixture, sometimes irritates me no end but there was never any restriction, minority privilege in secular India you know. The moment someone talks about that (Sonu Nigam), life's in danger for eternity. 

I fully support you here. One could pray as long as he is not disturbing other above a certain level. While AZAN is not obligatory in Islam, but only a call so that people become aware of time of prayer. But in the new era, this is no more necessary as people have watches and they can see the time. 

 

Even in country like Pakistan, Muslims are themselves fed up of tens of Azans 5 times a day, and they are try to remove Azan with loud speakers on the bases of this same argument that Azan is not compulsory, and every one has a watch. 

 

Certain Level:

 

In Europe, they allow Azan with the conditions that:

 

1. It could only be called once a week for the Friday prayer. 

2. Loud speakers should not be louder than certain level. 

3. Churches are also allowed to ring the bells once in a week on Sunday. Also they should be lower than some level. 

4. Mandirs are also allowed to ring the bells once a week on Sunday. 

 

[Ranvir]

What was the point of partition if India is still facing these kinds of problems?

[Alam_dar]

6 hours ago, Gollum said:

I don't have to respond to a fanatic Muslim like Shehla Rashid, her mask was exposed in the O'Connor conversion story.

If it would have been a case related only to Shela Rashid, then aiming at her would have solved the problem. 

But problem is this that this argument concerns the general situation in India and holds weight in court of justice. 

It would be very difficult to convince a community mentally to give up their prayer at the public places voluntarily when others also use the public places for worship. 

It would not be wise for Police to take one sided actions on this issue. 

Solutions could be found by taking actions against ALL at the same time who violate the law. 

 

6 hours ago, Gollum said:

All I can say is that despite our demographics the proportionate representation of Muslims in terms of places of worship or display of religion is far higher than Hindu representation. Hell even Christians have more churches when you take into account their population. In a population of 100, with 80 Hindus, 15 Muslims and 3 Christians if we have 8 temples, 5 mosques and 3 churches, where does the argument of restriction of religion by majoritarian Hindus arise? In no other country are minorities given these rights, not even in the West. 

 

In my opinion a BALANCED approach could be as we see in the Western countries:

 

Following things should be banned:

 

1. Ban the Azans on loudspeekers, except for one Azan on Friday. 

2. Ban any Khutba (Sermon) on Loudspeakers. 

3. And only Government approved Sermon should be allowed in the mosques. Governments of Saudi Arabia and many other Muslim countries have full control upon the Sermon which is delivered in the mosques on Jummah prayer. 

 

Following things should be allowed:

 

4. Praying, even at the public places, but without use of loudspeakers, without any independently written Khutba. 
Police written Plan should be obligatory to follow (i.e. Police has to tell where to pray, and at what time prayer takes place etc) so that other peoples are not disturbed badly.

[Alam_dar]

4 hours ago, rageaddict said:

There is an unwritten agreement between many well off societies in Mumbai to avoid giving space to even a single Muslim family as it could lead to trouble in the future.  You give an inch to these people  and  they will start exercising their backward  Sharia inspired rights backed by the Constitution of India. Initially , all they want is some space  but as the number of families increase they might want to organize Kurbaani in open in front of their little ones ( and others)  to emulate the life of their Holy Prophet and satisfy their embedded lust to see blood on the streets . Soon the members of Qoum would want to pray in open in order to show solidarity with each other,  a new Mosque comes up and then you have full day harrasement with a Maulvi barking on the loudspeakers in Arabic. Any opposition from the civil society would then be dismissed as infringment of their minority rights and sign of the growing influence of Hindutva in the country. The dispute no longer remains a  local one  with media and Political parties jumping in.  Looking at the scary events unfolding in the country,  Patriot Muslim Celebrities like Amir Khan,  Javed Akhtar and Nasserrudin Shah would express  fears for the future of their Children in the  country,  which is an indirect dig at the Hindus for their alleged harrasment of Muslims. Pakistanis would rejoice at  all the circus taking place  in India and claim that Jinnah's demand for a separate homeland for   Muslims has been validated once more,    guilt ridden Secular Hindus would  start hating themselves more than ever and wonder what further  needs to be done to appease the Muslims so that they can feel more inclusive and integrated.  Then you wonder if all this trouble  for  some extra cultural enrichment and diversity was worth it.

Looking at all the R*ndi Rona from Hindus who often feel harassed and irritated  over Minority Muslims flexing  their muscles and public display of strength  , I am very proud that there is no  Muslim and No Mosque as far as I can see and never will be. No Muslims no trouble imo . They are better off in their filthy ghettos where you can  pray on the streets , slaughter on the streets and experience life in full Islamic Spirit. 

Many Europeans are also of this opinion now NO Muslims NO problems. They simply refuse to integrate. Religion comes for them before Humanity and all other things. 

 

I have no sympathy for the fanatic Muslims, who want to impose Islam by force upon whole world. 

 

But I do feel sorry for moderate Muslims, who do respect others, and only want to live in peace. 

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, diga said:

Alam dar is a typical attention seeking muullah even though he tries to hide it cleverly....

What!!!

You only blamed me for being a Mullah!!

 

You are a sweet person brother if you blame me for only being Mullah. Should I say thanks to you?

 

While when I debate with my fellow Pakistani Muslims about Human Rights, then I go under their skin, and they blame me for every possible crime like agent of RAW, Israel, West, Munafiq, Dajjal, Satan, Murtad ..... and minimum punishment for me should be the painful killing (according to Quran my right hand and right foot should be cut and then I should be left to die. 

 

Therefore, as compared to my fellow Pakistani Muslims, you seems to be a sweet and kind hearted person. 

[mishra]

7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

never seen such rallies myself.  

Me neither. I havee seen a few unarmed Chaddhidharis  though.

 

BTW, why ban on friday prayers unless its in Public place. Ban of group prayers in public place is absolutely correct and must be enforced as this is nothing but religious/mosque/temple encroaching a publuc park which is for general population use

Edited January 3, 2019 by mishra

[MechEng]

Nowhere in India are Friday prayers banned. Where do you get such news?

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, diga said:

Alam dar is a typical attention seeking muullah even though he tries to hide it cleverly....He & Shela Rashid see rss rallies in every city if India while the citizens of this country hardly see any in a year. I would say there is more chance of seeing a political rally by a small party than rss

 

ICF should ignore him

I sensed that too. RSS rallies? where? 

Edited January 3, 2019 by MechEng

[Alam_dar]

16 hours ago, rageaddict said:

Living in Shiv Sena's stronghold in South Mumbai helps 

They will not tolerate all the " occupying the streets " drama and the other party is well aware of it. 

 

Even though Mumbai has around 20-25 % Muslim population, there have always been Strong Hindu and Muslim pockets in the city. The 92-93 Riots further deepened the divide ,  after which a  few Hindus who lived in Muslim majority areas and Muslims who lived in Hindu Majority areas shifted to localities that  they perceived as more safe. The Muslim Mohallas are the ones from where the Ibrahmins , Memons and other anti-National gangsters/terroists have come up.

 

You would have come across many cases in the media  where Muslims have been denied  a flat in Cosmopolitan housing societies , which even though denied by many happens for real ( this one for example )( https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/palghar-police-book-11-persons-for-denying-muslim-man-right-to-buy-flat-in-vasai-housing-society-3036560/. 

 

Sure it looks discriminatory on paper but you cannot put the  blame on people wanting to avoid trouble after investing the earnings of their lifetime in buying their ideal home. You would not want to fight legal battles with a particular occupant of your apartment over religious differences and their extraordinary demands.  The other party doesnt believe in making a compromise over their religion and keeping their religiosity confined to four walls. As if the Mosques are not enough they want to takeover public spaces in name of religion and cry discrimination upon being denied the right to do so. The Public  Parks , Gardens and Playgrounds are for recreational activity and social interaction but the ones who believe in showing strength through numbers feel entitled to all rights and  find  it difficult to come in terms with it. 

 

In an ideal situation, it should be the "System" which should be dynamic and able enough to fight the evils of any group. 

It should be the system which should ban the Azans, or non-governmental controlled Sermons at the places of worship, or the usage of loudspeakers. 

And I think all these objectives are achievable while staying in the system, as West has controlled the  use of loudspeakers and Azans, while governments of Muslim countries control the sermons. 

 

It is never a good idea to have Mafia gangs like Shiv Sena to have your affairs in their hands. 

These gangs work above the law and bring a lot of negative effects on the society along with them. 

Every possible efforts should be made to replace such Mafias through the System in any civilized society. 

[Gollum]

17 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

There is no place to pray within the radius of 5 km of this park. 

Link

Don't know then, no mosque nearby? I hadn't followed this development before you posted this thread. 

Maybe they should stick to prayers at home like many Hindus do, if distance is such an inconvenience. If they work somewhere I am sure they can talk with the employers and get a space. In an office I worked in till a few months back, there were a few Muslim employees and they had access to an empty room for prayers where no one would disturb them. I have seen Muslims offer prayers in train berths and roadside platforms, space to pray isn't a problem and most non-Muslim Indians are very accommodative. If one park in India says no, they must have valid reasons and we need to respect that. We only have control over what happens in our private property, everywhere else there is the question of convenience and permission. 

Quote

I fully support you here. One could pray as long as he is not disturbing other above a certain level. While AZAN is not obligatory in Islam, but only a call so that people become aware of time of prayer. But in the new era, this is no more necessary as people have watches and they can see the time. 

 

Even in country like Pakistan, Muslims are themselves fed up of tens of Azans 5 times a day, and they are try to remove Azan with loud speakers on the bases of this same argument that Azan is not compulsory, and every one has a watch. 

 

Certain Level:

 

In Europe, they allow Azan with the conditions that:

 

1. It could only be called once a week for the Friday prayer. 

2. Loud speakers should not be louder than certain level. 

3. Churches are also allowed to ring the bells once in a week on Sunday. Also they should be lower than some level. 

4. Mandirs are also allowed to ring the bells once a week on Sunday. 

 

Azan is here to stay in India and unfortunately we are powerless to stop the use of loudspeakers. Church bells annoy us on Sunday mornings, temple festivals a few days in the year, but azan and Friday sermons happen all the time. And you can't reason with the Muslims. I remember when there was an entrance exam in my high school days on a Sunday in a college adjoining a church. The authorities requested the father to reduce volume so that the students aren't affected and he listened to them. They conducted their prayers and songs without causing disturbance and we weren't affected. Temple authorities can be talked to. If someones tries this stunt with Muslims it can get ugly. A priest in South India recently was killed by a nearby mosque's Imam because he was conducting Hindu prayers during time of azan. A vast majority of Hindus in a Hindu majority country have to live in fear to maintain secularism and political correctness. 

17 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

If it would have been a case related only to Shela Rashid, then aiming at her would have solved the problem. 

But problem is this that this argument concerns the general situation in India and holds weight in court of justice. 

It would be very difficult to convince a community mentally to give up their prayer at the public places voluntarily when others also use the public places for worship. 

It would not be wise for Police to take one sided actions on this issue. 

Solutions could be found by taking actions against ALL at the same time who violate the law. 

In my opinion a BALANCED approach could be as we see in the Western countries:

Following things should be banned:

1. Ban the Azans on loudspeekers, except for one Azan on Friday. 

2. Ban any Khutba (Sermon) on Loudspeakers. 

3. And only Government approved Sermon should be allowed in the mosques. Governments of Saudi Arabia and many other Muslim countries have full control upon the Sermon which is delivered in the mosques on Jummah prayer. 

Following things should be allowed:

4. Praying, even at the public places, but without use of loudspeakers, without any independently written Khutba. 
Police written Plan should be obligatory to follow (i.e. Police has to tell where to pray, and at what time prayer takes place etc) so that other peoples are not disturbed badly.

India is doing alright. Today I listened to 3 Friday sermons at maximum volume from 3 nearby mosques when I was having lunch. India is a country of over 1.2 billion, don't extrapolate isolated incidents to paint the picture of an entire country. Any idea how many mosques are there in India? How many public prayers by Muslims are conducted all over India? In no other non Islamic country are minority Muslims given this much freedom to practice their faith. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

@Alam_dar Before you use this isolated example to form a picture about Hindus, check out these links and there are more examples if you search the Internet space. The Dharmic religions have always accommodated other faiths, often at their own peril. An incident in some park somewhere can't be used to guilt trip Hindus. 

 

LINK1

 

LINK2

 

LINK3

 

Muslims can only take, take and take. Never give or adjust. And then they play the victim card when the other side seeks a compromise or minor adjustment. They cry secularism, tolerance, liberalism etc when in minority and when in majority.....you know right?

 

Any wonder why the rest of humanity sees Muslims in a particular way? 

[JourneyMan]

No loudspeakers, all gatherings whether religious or political to take place at private locations or on private property. Street durgas and mandirs will be dismantled. Anyone who wants to worship is free to do so in a temple, church, mosque etc, but these will be registered locations with a well defined border from public property. If the capacity is insufficient, too bad, the community needs to gather funds for a new location. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by JourneyMan

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, JourneyMan said:

No loudspeakers, all gatherings whether religious or political to take place at private locations or on private property. Street durgas and mandirs will be dismantled. Anyone who wants to worship is free to do so in a temple, church, mosque etc, but these will be registered locations with a well defined border from public property. If the capacity is insufficient, too bad, the community needs to gather funds for a new location. 

It will be ideal situation if it happens.  

 

But what about the religious/political rallies and protests? Could they be allowed on the public roads/places?

[JourneyMan]

16 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

It will be ideal situation if it happens.  

 

But what about the religious/political rallies and protests? Could they be allowed on the public roads/places?

No rallies. Religious events should be confined to the place of worship. Political speeches can be held at any venue that is available and willing to rent out their premises. 

 

Indian streets are crowded enough already, these daily street rallies are just a hindrance and have never brought about any real change or progress. 

[mishra]

15 hours ago, JourneyMan said:

No rallies. Religious events should be confined to the place of worship. Political speeches can be held at any venue that is available and willing to rent out their premises. 

 

Indian streets are crowded enough already, these daily street rallies are just a hindrance and have never brought about any real change or progress. 

 

Its actually about spreading a false narrative that RSS is doing jihadi type rallies in Indian street. Seems like its working.

@Alam_dar there is nothing like that. The topic you have choosen has less credibility then CIA blowing up twin towers or Osama bin Laden not killed by Americans in Pakistan.

Edited January 6, 2019 by mishra

[JourneyMan]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

 

Its actually about spreading a false narrative that RSS is doing jihadi type rallies in Indian street. Seems like its working.

@Alam_dar there is nothing like that. The topic you have choosen has less credibility then CIA blowing up twin towers or Osama bin Laden not killed by Americans in Pakistan.

They can do flower power gatherings for all I care, but they should do it on their own premises or at a privately rented location. Same goes for all other political parties and all religious groups. 

 

Keep the public streets and areas free from political and religious gatherings. It just adds unnecessary traffic and congestion without actually giving any benefits. 

 

[Alam_dar]

10 hours ago, mishra said:

 

Its actually about spreading a false narrative that RSS is doing jihadi type rallies in Indian street. Seems like its working.

@Alam_dar there is nothing like that. The topic you have choosen has less credibility then CIA blowing up twin towers or Osama bin Laden not killed by Americans in Pakistan.

 

I am afraid that news of such rallies by Saffron brigade is all over in the newspapers. 

 

RSS , Shiv Sena, Bajran Dal .... the protests and saffron rallies for Ram Mandir. 

 

Gao Rakshaks openly doing rallies and protests at the public places. 

 

And it is the Chief Justice of Supreme Court of India who is giving a statement about RSS rallies. 

 

 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

But I also found this pic, which shows Muslims also possess the swords. This should be banned to show any weapon like swords etc in the public. 

 

[coffee_rules]

@Alam_dar Google Ayudha Pooja, done on the 9th day of Navratri especially in South India. It is when Pandavas broke their Agnathavaas and went to war on Vijayadashmi for Virat King.. You liberals mistake these religious ceremonies to violence from terrorists. Shame on you. 

[mishra]

19 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

@Alam_dar Google Ayudha Pooja, done on the 9th day of Navratri especially in South India. It is when Pandavas broke their Agnathavaas and went to war on Vijayadashmi for Virat King.. You liberals mistake these religious ceremonies to violence from terrorists. Shame on you. 

Yes. Those girls. All look southie.

 

RSS is still all boyz club in India. Women are not part of it @Alam_dar

 

Various local Hindu/Indian Traditions and ceremonies shouldnt be confused with RSS rallies. You want miss khaki half pant in RSS pics. Wherewver u got the source from, its misinformation.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by mishra