Top 3 or bust - so youngtsers or grandpas in middle order?

[ShoonyaSifar]

40 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 Part of the problem is the openers themselves . One is playing for 10+ years and another for 5+ . But when ball swings they cannot last more than 4 overs . They just do not have the game to survive the 10 overs and limit the damage even when batting first. 

So we have live with it . If its a good wicket we always have a chance . But vs good swing bowlers with some help we should have low expectation. In that scenario, its wrong to expect to win global events as we will always be one match away from KO.

 

   

Inability to play swing gets exaggerated because when both fail (and Kohli), rest just crumble. But because at least one in top 3 hits a 60-70 almost every innings, multiple days when they tackle swing decently are totally forgotten. 

[flamy]

59 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 Part of the problem is the openers themselves . One is playing for 10+ years and another for 5+ . But when ball swings they cannot last more than 4 overs . They just do not have the game to survive the 10 overs and limit the damage even when batting first. 

So we have live with it . If its a good wicket we always have a chance . But vs good swing bowlers with some help we should have low expectation. In that scenario, its wrong to expect to win global events as we will always be one match away from KO.

 

   

Yep. It is the openers job to negate swing and play out 20 overs. 

[prudent_kreeda]

15 minutes ago, flamy said:

Yep. It is the openers job to negate swing and play out 20 overs. 

  We should be happy if they can be 1 down by 11-12 overs in a pitch like today. Then second string pacers come in mostly.

[Cricketics]

17 minutes ago, flamy said:

Yep. It is the openers job to negate swing and play out 20 overs. 

But we really can't blame openers. They failed first time in the series together. This will happen a lot too so middle order should take bit responsibility too.

 

I think anyway we are making too much out of the collapse. Yes, concerns are there like Rayuudu and co, but we shouldn't make it sound like we can never win without Kohli. We have won many games without Kohl too. 

 

Our main reason we lost is that the top 2 players failed who have been seniors and then there were two missing seniors - Kohli and Dhoni(whether he bats slow or whatever still he is a regular player in the team). So all of a sudden our batting order looks depleted when 4 of your regular players gone who bat in the top-middle order so now you are depending on guys like Jadhav/Karthik etc who are capable of scoring but again are hit and miss players, so these things will happen when your middle order is not set. 

[flamy]

Yes, of course middle order should take responsibility, especially Biryani and Karthik for getting out to CDG of all people.

But, especially in swinging conditions, it falls on the top order to protect the middle order, because that's why they are openers and not middle order players.

[putrevus]

There is no hard and fast rule that youngster cannot be given a chance even though there are not many matches left.Gill can play this series and Australian series.Call can be taken on him then.

 

India will go as far their top three and bowlers take them. Dhoni has no history of doing well in ICC tournaments other than his one knock.So I don't trust him either.Some people were commenting on how top three need to be like England.But they know  if they fail India will lose so they take time in building their innings.

[flamy]

Why are people so enamored with Gill? Why not Agarwal instead who has proven himself at international level in an away match?

[maniac]

Gill will be fine against the swinging ball but he needs to be tested against genuine pace.

 

I hope Nzl play Ferguson in the next game and he has go at young Gill. If he passed tests like that, he will be good. He was timing the ball beautifully yesterday before he got shaken up by Boult.

Edited January 31, 2019 by maniac

[WeStMiDz]

Hardik is a proper batsman in this format. All this time he should have been groomed as a number 5 (and even a 4 on occasions, circumstances depending). Would have added so much more balance to this team. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by WeStMiDz