Those who watched him live, how good was Richie Richardson?

[Gollum]

Before my time, retired in 1995 apparently, even knighted!!!!! Doesn't get discussed that much but has a few ATG knocks for sure. From what I have seen in the videos he didn't wear helmet, was very good square of the wicket, fierce cuts and hooks, his pull shot was quality, loved bashing the Aussies (9/16 100s against them). 

 

How would you guys rate him esp in tests? How was his game against spin? Why are his ODI numbers underwhelming? Are his stats misleading as is the case with our wizard GR Viswanath? Was he the best WI batsman at any stage of his career? Which post-2000 player is closest to him? 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Why was he knighted? An honour not bestowed on Marshall, Lara, Holding, Garner, Kanhai, Gibbs, Haynes etc. 

[Gollum]

Was captain during final phase of ATG WI's unbeaten run. 

 

WI skippers roughly:

 

Worrell (1st black captain) 1960-63

Sobers  1964-70

Kanhai 1971-73

Lloyd 1974-84

Viv 1985-90

Richardson 1991-95

Lara 1996-99

 

In between Kali (Packer years), Murray, Haynes, Greenidge, Walsh captained for 1-2 series each but that was mainly because the above names didn't play.

 

Some elite company for RR.

[Skipper]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Before my time, retired in 1995 apparently, even knighted!!!!! Doesn't get discussed that much but has a few ATG knocks for sure. From what I have seen in the videos he didn't wear helmet, was very good square of the wicket, fierce cuts and hooks, his pull shot was quality, loved bashing the Aussies (9/16 100s against them). 

 

How would you guys rate him esp in tests? How was his game against spin? Why are his ODI numbers underwhelming? Are his stats misleading as is the case with our wizard GR Viswanath? Was he the best WI batsman at any stage of his career? Which post-2000 player is closest to him? 

I had this impression that he is brother of Vivian Richards.

[Tattieboy]

He was a very  good player , played fast bowling well and liked to release his arms and hands at the ball . Competent against spin without being outstanding .

 

Maybe best to compare him against Alvin Kallicharan,  middle order,   similar numbers I think , for me I would watch Alvin every day of the week .

He was a bit of an establishment guy , given the captaincy when others might have been thought more of a chance of replacing Viv hence why he might be a match referee now .

 

I believe it was Antigua Government that bestowed Sir on him . For me he was a bit loose in shots and defence to be talked as a WI great but a very good player and one notch down from the greats 

 

[maniac]

My intro to cricket was in the Richie Richardson era. Good batsman but didn’t have the aura of a Lara or a Richards. At best a great supporting act in the Chanderpaul category. He had a brutal pull  and cut shot though from what I remember.

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, Skipper said:

I had this impression that he is brother of Vivian Richards.

Lot of Indian kids felt that way - he was like a mini version of Viv, and could terrify you in his little peaked cap, if he was 'on'.  For me, I associate Richie and guys like Phil Simmons with the decline of the Windies dynasty.  Those guys looked like the scary champions of the 80s - the team where you just knew you were going to lose, but still watched hoping for some crazy miracle - these guys looked the same, and played the same, but only occasionally.  

[maniac]

16 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Lot of Indian kids felt that way - he was like a mini version of Viv, and could terrify you in his little peaked cap, if he was 'on'.  For me, I associate Richie and guys like Phil Simmons with the decline of the Windies dynasty.  Those guys looked like the scary champions of the 80s - the team where you just knew you were going to lose, but still watched hoping for some crazy miracle - these guys looked the same, and played the same, but only occasionally.  

Surprisingly I have a different view from yours , guys like Richardson,Hooper, Simmons and even players like Logie looked a million bucks and deadly when they played as part of an ATG team but weren’t good enough to build the team around them.

 

It’s like Yuvi and Raina are irreplaceable even today but you can’t build a team around them as leaders minus guys like Kohli,Rohit and Dhoni. 

[coffee_rules]

All I remember was aggressive batting just like Vic Richards, successful against Australia. He batted well against India in 1989 series. He had personal issues with Richards and he was chosen over Haynes. He made the board drop Viv Richards for the 92 WC, not many Viv followers in India like him for that. He was the first captain to lose a series in 1995 from the 80s. He was dropped after 1996 WC with the team not liking him anymore. It was like what goes around comes around. Antiguan like Richards.

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Surprisingly I have a different view from yours

objectively speaking, there isn't any contradiction between your view and mine, on this question specifically. However its utterly predictable that you choose to 'view' it differently.  

[Tattieboy]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Surprisingly I have a different view from yours , guys like Richardson,Hooper, Simmons and even players like Logie looked a million bucks and deadly when they played as part of an ATG team but weren’t good enough to build the team around them.

 

It’s like Yuvi and Raina are irreplaceable even today but you can’t build a team around them as leaders minus guys like Kohli,Rohit and Dhoni. 

Simmons was really a dud as an opener in test cricket , Gus Logie looked good in ulustrious company but most times flattered to receive . Hooper was the one who did not fulfil either as a batsman is off spinner on the natural talent he was given , he could and should have been much much better 

[Gollum]

With players like Lara, Hooper, Richardson, Adams, Walsh, Ambrose, Bishop and rising stars like Chanderpaul, Gayle, Hinds, Sarwan, Dillon, Ridley Jacobs (as good as Boucher) etc. WI should have done far better in late 90s and early 00s. Their slump post 1995 is shocking, didn't lack the personnel/quality. Couldn't gel well as a unit and team was weaker than sum of the parts. Maybe they missed a leader who could bring all the islanders together, Lara failed miserably at that. 

[Scarface]

Remember him from the 96 world cup for his 2 great innings vs Australia.
1) He anchored through a tough chase with a 50+ score in the group encounter with Australia.
2) In the famous semi-final, he was the last man standing at the non-striker's end when Walsh swished at thin air instead of giving him the strike. He didn't dominate but played the peak-Warne quite well in both the games and seemed a tough character. His full-blooded sweep shot which hit the umpire and denied him a certain boundary was a hot topic for couple of days since the margin was only 5 runs.

As a captain, he seemed more in Dhoni mode - calm and rarely showing emotions.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Their slump post 1995 is shocking, didn't lack the personnel/quality.

Not shocking at all.  It wasn't that the West Indies regressed much in the 1990s, its that the other team slowly got better as more money came into the sport, and the West Indies didn't keep up.  

 

Windies in the 90s missed the 'reverse swing' bus, because they never needed to innovate to take wickets.  With better helmets, and batsmen more used to wearing them, you saw the emergence of players like Hayden and Steve Waugh - former was ruthlessly bounced out by Windies early in his career, but went on to become 'great'. Steve Waugh famously couldn't or 'didn't' duck, but managed to be effective.  90s saw South Africans come back to cricket, and the slow and steady decline of number of Windies professionals playing county cricket.  Windies domestic cricket was never the high quality competition that produced finished talents.  County cricket always helped on that front.   

 

Like in any field, if you take your dominance for granted, and don't keep up your competitive edge, sooner or later others will catch up.  

[maniac]

11 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Simmons was really a dud as an opener in test cricket , Gus Logie looked good in ulustrious company but most times flattered to receive . Hooper was the one who did not fulfil either as a batsman is off spinner on the natural talent he was given , he could and should have been much much better 

I remember some fantastic cameo knocks from Simmons in ODis and was an innocuous bowler like Cronje and may be even a little better in the Shane Watson/Abdul Razzaq mould from what I remember.

[Gollum]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

steady decline of number of Windies professionals playing county cricket.  Windies domestic cricket was never the high quality competition that produced finished talents.  County cricket always helped on that front.

Good point, county was finishing school for countries with weak domestic system like WI/Pak. 

[Tattieboy]

13 minutes ago, maniac said:

I remember some fantastic cameo knocks from Simmons in ODis and was an innocuous bowler like Cronje and may be even a little better in the Shane Watson/Abdul Razzaq mould from what I remember.

• 1) i don't recognize odi , T20 as real cricket just a bit of fun until next real cricket match takes olace
• 2) I don't like him because he had agreed to take my good friends job as coach of Afghanistan for simple reason he would live in Kabul despite my friend having a contract saying he did not have to live there . But yes he did play a few good innings but Desmond Haynes he wasn't 

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Good point, county was finishing school for countries with weak domestic system like WI/Pak. 

Pakistan's shyyyte test match performances in the 21st century can be linked to 3 factors - Kolpaks in county cricket, reverse swing becoming more common knowledge along with the batsmen's ability to play it, and better camera coverage.  

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, Tattieboy said:

i don't recognize odi

Bit of a generalization, but 90% of Indian cricket fans grew up as ODI fans first, and then a subset evolved into liking test cricket.  You're in a minority here in more ways than one!

[Tattieboy]

Just now, sandeep said:

Bit of a generalization, but 90% of Indian cricket fans grew up as ODI fans first, and then a subset evolved into liking test cricket.  You're in a minority here in more ways than one!

I am so pleased about that I would hate  to be in the majority ..make my day and tell me I am a minority of one 

 

Such a shame 90% of indian kids are  still being coached to play test match style when much more opportunities are available ODI and T20 .